Mormons and guns

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I live in Las Vegas and we have a large Mormon population. Alot of my friends are Mormons and they all own firearms. One friend had a really nice glass cabinet full of the family's hunting rifles. Mormons are great folk and outstandingly genuine people.
 
Thanks for the nice comments another48hrs and others. :)


Moa stated:
Not only are the Mormoms gun owners, but they where gun users. Back in the 1800s they and their Indian allies ambushed and massacred about 120 white settlers. I think the Indians were Paiutes.

Cannot remember what the Mormons reasons were. I think they were just trying to keep non-Mormons out.

Cannot remember what the legal outcome was.

As far as the Mountain Meadow Massacre is concerned, I would be happy to go into more detail for anybody who wanted to e-mail me about it. Basically, it was a group of bitter Mormons in Southern Utah in the late 1800's who were acting against church leadership. President Brigham Young specifically instructed the Mormons in southern Utah to let the people pass through in peace without any interference from the Mormons in the area. The people did not wait for Brigham Young's response to arrive, and they murdered everybody in a company of settlers headed towards California from Arkansas. It was a very unfortunate event, and all of the people who were involved were dealt with by the law.

I don't want to get into a theological debate with anybody here, and I am sure that the Moderators will agree with me. I believe that everybody has the right to worship who, how, and when they want to according to the dictates of their own conscience.

I do feel, though, that it is unfair to paint a group of murderous people acting under their own vindictiveness with the vast majority of us Mormons who just try to be the nice neighbors down the street.

Best. :)
 
It was the Meadow Creek Massacre.

Certain?





This is the Inscription of the Mountain Meadows Memorial in Utah. This
memorial marks the burial site for some of those killed in the Mountain
Meadows Massacre in September 1857:

The Baker-Fancher Party camped at Mountain Meadows, a well-known stopping
place along the Old Spanish Trail.

IN MEMORIAM

In the valley below, between September 7 and 11, 1857, a company of more
than 120 Arkansas emigrants led by Capt. John T. Baker and Capt. Alexander
Fancher was attacked while en route to California. This event is known as
the Mountain Meadows Massacre.

Those believed to have been killed at or near Mountain Meadows were:

William Allen Aden, 19
George W. Baker, 27
Manerva A. Beller Baker, 25
Mary Lovina, 7
Wards of George and Manerva Baker
Melissa Ann Beller, 14
David W. Beller, 12
John T. Baker, 52
Abel, 19
John Beach, 21
William Cameron, 51
Martha Cameron, 51
Tillman, 24
Isom, 18
Henry, 16
James, 14
Martha, 11
Larkin, 8
William Cameron's niece, Nancy, 12
Allen P. Deshazo, 20
Jesse Dunlap, Jr. 39
Mary Wharton Dunlap, 39
Ellender, 18
Nancy M., 16
James D., 14
Lucinda, 12
Susannah, 12
Margerette, 11,
Mary Ann, 9
Lorenzo Dow Dunlap, 42
Nancy Wharton Dunlap, 42
Thomas J., 17
John H. 16
Mary Ann, 13
Talitha Emaline, 11
Nancy, 9
America Jane, 7
William M. Eaton
Silas Edwards
Alexander Fancher, 45
Eliza Ingrum Fancher, 32
Hampton, 19
William, 17
Mary 15,
Thomas, 14
Martha, 10
Sarah G., 8
Margaret A., 7
James Mathew Fancher, 25
Frances "Fanny" Fulfer Fancher
Robert Fancher, 19
Saladia Ann Brown Huff
William
Elisha
Two other sons.
John Milum Jones, 32
Eloah Angeline Tackitt Jones, 27
Daughter
Newton Jones,
Lawson A. McEntire, 21
Josiah (Joseph) Miller, 30
Matilda Cameron Miller, 26
James William, 9
Charles R. Mitchell, 23
John Prewit, 20
William Prewit, 18
Milum L. Rush, 28
Charles Stallcup, 25
Cynthia Tackitt, 49
Marion, 20
Sebron, 18
Matilda, 16
James M., 14
Jones M., 12
Pleasant Tackitt, 25
Amilda Miller Tackitt, 22
Richard Wilson
Solomon R. Wood, 26

Others Unknown

Other names associated with the caravan included:

Basham
Farmer
Hamilton
Haydon
Hudson
Laffoon Family
Morton Family
Poteet family
Poteet brothers
Reed
Smith Stevenson

The following children survived and were returned to their families in
northwest Arkansas in September 1859:

Children of George and Manerva Baker
Mary Elizabeth, 5
Sarah Frances, 3
William Twitty, 9 months
Daughters of Jesse and Mary Dunlap
Rebecca J.,6
Louisa, 4
Sarah E., 1
Daughters of Lorenzo Dow and Nancy Dunlap
Prudence Angeline, 5
Georgia Ann, 18 months
Children of Alexander and Eliza Fancher
Christopher "Kit" Carson, 5
Triphenia D., 22 months
Daughter of Peter and Saladia Huff
Nancy Saphrona, 4
Son of John Milum and Eloah Jones
Felix Marion, 18 months
Children of Jos. and Matilda Miller
John Calvin, 6
Mary, 4
Joseph, 1
Sons of Pleasant and Armilda Tackitt
Emberson Milum, 4
William Henry, 19 months
 
I do feel, though, that it is unfair to paint a group of murderous people acting under their own vindictiveness with the vast majority of us Mormons who just try to be the nice neighbors down the street.


Don't worry, you're getting equal time with the Muslims over in Legal & Political.

Perhaps a few Muslims will remind us of the barbarity of the Crusades and blame all Christians, though. Wait, though, it's been done - by some guy named Osama.
 
Good point, CZ-75. :)

The vast majority of people in the world, whether they be Muslim, Mormon, Catholic, Hindu, or whatever have the same goals in life -- to see their kids grow up healthy and to have better circumstances in life than they had.

Best. :)
 
one of my best friend is mormon, he's also my gunsmith, can't wait to shoot the .416 rigby he just got done building :)
 
There's an interesting Mormon firearms forum here, which is well worth visiting. (Hint - read some of Porter Glockwell's stuff! :D) Some of the old TFL regulars used to post there, and I'm sure some of them are still with us on THR.
 
I think that this thread is fine as long as it sticks to Mormons and guns. The second that it turns into a theological debate or "My God is better than your God" this thread will be drug behind the barn and given the "Old Yeller" treatment. :)

Porter Glockwell is a personal friend of mine, his board (that Preacherman provides a link to) is his board. Lots of good folks there.

We are an interesting bunch. For the most parts Mormons as a group tend to be very conservative. I would hazard a guess that 60% are pro-gun, 20% are fence sitters, and then of course we do manage to have our clueless suburbanites and soccer moms. (no offense to the suburbs, guess where I live.)

It is true, Utah is the only state where Bill Clinton came in last, behind Ross Perot, and I believe Bo Gritz. :p

CZ, none of us Mormons will disagree with you. Mountain Meadows was a travesty. It is a stain on the history of our state. But in my ancestor's defense, a whole lot of wagon trains passed through Utah with no problem, it was a lone incident caused by one group of people, not the whole society.
 
This has been an interesting thread for me. I must say that I'm highly impressed with the spirit of the High Road. When I saw the topic I was warming up the key board for what on many other forums would have been an all out war. I don't think any one appreciates others bashing things about their religion. I tip my hat to all who took the High Road on this one

Baba Louie, glad to see that I'm not the only one a little "Reorganized" around here:) :)
 
Have to say the finest co-worker I ever worked with was Mormon.

Served his country flying C130's, Morals, values, everything impeccable.

I drank back then, add coffee and smokes...well neither side won the bet as to which one of us would change.

I took him to a range a couple of times just he and I. Later his family (5 kids) and I had the best time.We made regular trips, packed a lunch, made a day of it. Even the kids would get excited about going shooting. Even his 4 yr old knew the 4 rules...and not a bad shot either. He and the wife CCW, "just the way we were raised, and the way we plan on raising the kids". Really hated to see him go back to Utah.

16 th birthday his daughter got her wish...BHP from Grandpa.
 
Who was it coined the phrase "Mormon Labe"? Was that Porter Glockwell?

I kinda like it, being an armed Mormon and all.
 
My best buddy

My best buddy of more than 50 years is a Utah Mormon and a hunting fool. He's written three books on the subject--including the last on an African safari he made last year.

He owns a slew of guns, loves to fish (poor fool) and will pick up a rifle or a shotgun at the mere mention of hunting.

Besides all that, he's really a very nice person, though he and I rant back and forth about politics--not religion.

Now the nut is seriously considering (at age 70) a hunting trip to Australia. Thinks that continent needs him to reduce the feral burro, dog and 'roo populations.
 
My Mormon friends have explained to me that self-reliance is among the key tenents of the faith (e.g. many Mormon families keep a year's supply of food, as they don't believe in welfare), and self reliance includes self-defense. In the early days, they faced a lot of prejudice and persecution, so it was pretty much a necessity, and some say that they ended up in Utah becasue it was the only place they coud find peace. Even so, The feds had to send troops in a couple times in the late 1800's to put down Mormons 'uprisings', but I don't recall all the details as to what precipitated the gov't intervention. It has been my experience, that as a group, Mormons have strong family values, place a great deal of value on education, and have a strong work ethic, and make good neighbors (some get a little heavy on the proselytizing, though).
 
I too agree that the thread has been fine, and has, for the most part, stuck to the topic of Mormons and guns. :)

The original question has just been discussed by numerous people here who are either Mormons or who have had Mormon neighbors, co-workers, friends, etc... For the most part, I think that the discussion has been surprisingly civil. Hats off to you friends... :)

Correia,
Maybe we should get together for a Utah THR shoot one of these times. We have Utah SIG gatherings over at SIGForum, why not THR gatherings?
 
Hey, tetchaje1...

Quote:
__________________________________________________

And they were doing that which they felt was the duty which they owed to their God; for the Lord had said unto them, and also unto their fathers, that: Inasmuch as ye are not guilty of the first offense, neither the second, ye shall not suffer yourselves to be slain by the hands of your enemies.

And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed. ... to defend themselves, and their families, and their lands, their country, and their rights, and their religion.
__________________________________________________



Reading this thread, Mormons sound great!



I am very happy with what I am, tetchaje1, but tell me -- can you make me an HONORARY Mormon? :D :D

Matis
 
Matis, no honorary title, but I can send over two nice young men in suits to make it official. :D ;)

We had a bunch of Utah TFL shoots. In fact if I recall correctly we were the first state to have a TFL get together. A THR shoot would be fun.

And just a shameless self promoting plug, we are having a 3 gun match at the FARM west of Lehi on March 15th. I'm the match director for this one, and there will be a few other THR folks there as well. See www.udpl.net for information.
 
Interesting thread! I am a Christian but not of the Mormon denomination...or any other denomination for that matter. I've talked to a few of the Mormons doing their mission on campus, nice guys and very easy to talk to.

Thanks for the small history lessons!
 
I can answer this.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When carrying 24 guns?
How does one:

(a) Walk?
(b) Climb into or exit a car?
(c) Go potty?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(a) You don't, you ride.
(b) Didn't have cars in Rockwell's day. How he got on and off his horse with 24 guns would be even worse.
(c) You don't have to because all the weight you are dragging around causes you to sweat all waste products from your body.

From what I have heard about Orrin Porter Rockwell, he was not someone you wanted to mess with. 2 guns or 24, he was a dangerous man if you were on his bad side.

I bought my first handgun in Utah from my brother who lived there. It was a Browning Challenger III. Pretty much the same as the Buckmark. He lived near the mouth of American Fork Canyon. We went about 2 miles up the road and shot it for a couple of hours. That was 1980. I bet you can't do that now. There are probably houses all over the place now. I haven't been there in a long time but I hear real estate is very expensive in Utah.

My brother moved to Seattle and sold his house years ago. He constantly whines and moans about how much he could have made on his house if only he had stayed in Utah longer.
 
Thanks, Correia...

I've had quite a few visits from the nice young men in suits and we've had some good discussions.

I've had Mormon acquaintances before but didn't have much discussion about Mormonism with them. So most of what I know is from reading.

What I have learned is impressive: decent and smart people who rely on themselves and take care of their own. I've never been to Utah, but this thread triggered the idea to go visit sometime soon.

As to the Mormon attitude toward firearms and self-defence, I wish I could bottle it and feed it to some of my fellow Jews.

All the best,

Matis
 
Yes, the LDS Church encourages all its members to keep a years' supply of food, clothing and fuel where possible.

Also a "72-hour" kit (which is a great starting place for the former). THR members would recognize a 72-hour kit as a "bug-out bag."

The Church does not mention a years' supply of ammo...so I guess we follow our own conscience :D
 
"They have got to carry weapons with them, to be
ready to send their enemies to hell in cross lots, whether they be
Lamanites, or mobs who may come to take their lives, or destroy their
property."
BY


Boy, I might just have a little Mormon in me. I love it!

S-:D
 
sorry for the non-sequitor, but what/ who are the lamanites?

-The(RomanCatholic)LastBoyScout

PS: Sounds like you guys do have your stuff together in regards to self defense alot better than the Catholic Church.
 
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