Mossberg 410 cruiser...
- Thread starter Pfletch83
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FIVETWOSEVEN
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Usually when people open carry rifles and handguns patterned after rifles, they are pretty much doing it for demostrations or its part of a protest. If I was running a store like a convinence store, my first thought would be that you're here to rob the place, especially if its someone that doesn't know better.
pikid89
Member
yeah anything is possible, theres guys that hit clay pigeons in the air by hitting them with golf balls...that doesn't mean that we should all go and trade out our shotguns for a nice 3 iron
Im not gonna get an SD gun with the mentality that it will POSSIBLY kill an aggressor on my life...someone attacks me or mine and I will use the biggest baddest option available to me, no holds barred.
Im all about making points and protesting, but self preservation comes first
imagine what could have gone down if you had run into that Canton OH cop with a PGO shotgun hangin from your shoulder in a tactical sling. I can't imagine that ending well.
Yes i have owned a few .410's and I know from experience that it is a pitifully underpowered option for anything bigger than a large rabbit.
Yes it does kill stuff, yes i did kill a doe with a .410 slug from 75 yards when i was 12, but looking back, i never ever should have taken that shot given the ballistic capabilities (or incapabilities) of the .410 even in its most powerful of loads.
So if i would never ever again use it on a deer, why would i ever ever consider it as a primary weapon against a human, an organism with one of the most powerful wills to live of any living creature???
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Mike1234567
member
How can anyone say that 4-5 pellets of #00 buckshot at 1100-1200 FPS delivered at SD distances is anemic?
The .410 slug did the job on the deer didn't it?
Shot placement is more a key to survival than anything in a defensive encounter.
Remember the story about the cop that emptied his 12 gauge (the load used was standard '00' buck if memory serves) into the body of a perp and the perp kept advancing until the officer went to draw his sidearm and the perp then gave up and lived long enough to be loaded into the meat wagon then died later on (on the way to the hospital I think)
The range in that encounter was about 5 yards correct?
Every pellet hit the perp and the perp was still on his feet.
Shot placement to the CNS would have gotten better results (the officer even admitted it)
Shot placement is more a key to survival than anything in a defensive encounter.
Remember the story about the cop that emptied his 12 gauge (the load used was standard '00' buck if memory serves) into the body of a perp and the perp kept advancing until the officer went to draw his sidearm and the perp then gave up and lived long enough to be loaded into the meat wagon then died later on (on the way to the hospital I think)
The range in that encounter was about 5 yards correct?
Every pellet hit the perp and the perp was still on his feet.
Shot placement to the CNS would have gotten better results (the officer even admitted it)
pikid89
Member
^Sorry Pfletch, you just killed your entire argument
the officer couldn't stop the perp with say 5 shots of 12g a 00 buck, for a total of 45 pellets
yet you want to rely on (or hinder yourself with?) a .410 000 buck with say 5 shots for a grand total of 15 pellets, all out of a shotgun that CANNOT be aimed or run a fast as a regular better shotgun???
yeah the slug did work on the deer, but if your read the rest of the post, i also said that i would never ever do it again because it was such a poor idea
not sure your gonna win this one pfletch
the officer couldn't stop the perp with say 5 shots of 12g a 00 buck, for a total of 45 pellets
yet you want to rely on (or hinder yourself with?) a .410 000 buck with say 5 shots for a grand total of 15 pellets, all out of a shotgun that CANNOT be aimed or run a fast as a regular better shotgun???
yeah the slug did work on the deer, but if your read the rest of the post, i also said that i would never ever do it again because it was such a poor idea
not sure your gonna win this one pfletch
Mike1234567
member
^^^ Yeah, but a situation like that is exceedingly rare.
pikid89
Member
^ but you again nullify that by running a PGO
if by "same job" you mean the 12 ga hitting the target with triple aka 3x, aka 66% more payload than a .410, than yeah they do the same thing
if by "same job" you mean the 12 ga hitting the target with triple aka 3x, aka 66% more payload than a .410, than yeah they do the same thing
Mike1234567
member
Any PGO shotgun can be very accurate with a decent laser.
oneounceload
member
I never said I agreed or disagreed with using a 410 PGO - (personally, I prefer my 357 with the 12 ga as backup)
I own a 500 somewhere - I bought the PGO style WAY back before the internet was a glimmer in Al Gore's feeble brain - after about 3 shots, I purchased a regular stock for it and it has worn it ever since
BUT if the OP THINKS that is what is best for him, so be it - mental attitude is important. IF he thought he was going to come here and get a rousing round of support and validation, I would say by the comments posted so far, he has been sorely disappointed.
Still, 3 pellets of almost 38SPL size, traveling at low 357 velocity will do damage IF shot placement is achieved
pikid89
Member
add one of those mossberg chainsaw grips while your at it and you'll be on your way to attaining gecko45 level skills
stiletto raggio
Member
The only .410 I think can keep up with a standard 12 or 20 gauge pump is the Saiga .410.
The Saiga .410--properly converted and fitted with a collapsible or short fixed stock--can be used by anyone. It is reliable, has very low recoil and can be fitted with magazines of up to 15 round capacity. In a tube-fed gun, the 12 or 20 will hold just as many rounds as teh .410, so the .410 always loses out in terms of available firepower. The Saiga .410 turns that dynamic on its head, allowing the .410 to bring higher capacity and fast reloads to the fight.
The Saiga seems to have less felt recoil than a .223 and the OO, OOO and OOOO buck loads are respectable. The fact that you can stay on target easy in a string of rapid fire with the Saiga makes it at least the equal of the 12 gauge pump in terms of "lead available for delivery" and in a package that even weak or small people can handle without discomfort.
The .410 pump--especially a PGO--compares very poorly to the Saiga.
The Saiga .410--properly converted and fitted with a collapsible or short fixed stock--can be used by anyone. It is reliable, has very low recoil and can be fitted with magazines of up to 15 round capacity. In a tube-fed gun, the 12 or 20 will hold just as many rounds as teh .410, so the .410 always loses out in terms of available firepower. The Saiga .410 turns that dynamic on its head, allowing the .410 to bring higher capacity and fast reloads to the fight.
The Saiga seems to have less felt recoil than a .223 and the OO, OOO and OOOO buck loads are respectable. The fact that you can stay on target easy in a string of rapid fire with the Saiga makes it at least the equal of the 12 gauge pump in terms of "lead available for delivery" and in a package that even weak or small people can handle without discomfort.
The .410 pump--especially a PGO--compares very poorly to the Saiga.
Mike1234567
member
*sarcasm ignored*
You see no benefit in using a good laser on a SD firearm? While I respect your opinion I disagree.
I actually counted on the fact that most would disagree,I wasn't disappointed.
I also wanted to challenge the thought process (my own included) that many have about PGO shotguns.
If I knew for a fact that there was going to be trouble and I couldn't avoid it I would take my AR-15.
For most social situations a handgun fills the bill,even though most handguns (9mm,38,45,357,ect) are marginal stoppers at best,a shotgun in 410 with a PG is more compact than a stocked shotgun and has more power than a standard caliber carry gun it still takes training (As with any firearm) to hit well with it.
But for regular handgun ranged encounters I would rather have the PGO .410 as a primary and use my M-64 as a backup (if I should run it empty or someone gets the bright idea of making a grab for the scattergun).
I also wanted to challenge the thought process (my own included) that many have about PGO shotguns.
If I knew for a fact that there was going to be trouble and I couldn't avoid it I would take my AR-15.
For most social situations a handgun fills the bill,even though most handguns (9mm,38,45,357,ect) are marginal stoppers at best,a shotgun in 410 with a PG is more compact than a stocked shotgun and has more power than a standard caliber carry gun it still takes training (As with any firearm) to hit well with it.
But for regular handgun ranged encounters I would rather have the PGO .410 as a primary and use my M-64 as a backup (if I should run it empty or someone gets the bright idea of making a grab for the scattergun).
P,
I don't think you have any idea of how to run a good pump UNDER STRESS, in a kill-or-die situation.
Squirrels & rabbits are not the same thing.
Can you shoot your PGO FAST?
Can you engage multiple targets FAST?
Can you switch distances FAST?
Can you be accurate in a string of slugs FAST?
Can you acquire one or more targets FAST?
Can you reload FAST?
Can you work it reasonably well one-handed?
Have you ever actually worked a building with it?
No to all, I'd say.
Remember in the PM where I suggested you find videos of somebody who knows what they're doing running a realistic course (not just slowfire paper-punching or mugging for a camera or girlfriend) so you can get an idea of what might be involved if you ever need to use your gun?
The suggestion still stands. You may find it an eye-opener as far as believing you're speedy with your PGO goes.
Hunting & casual plinking do not make you either knowledgeable or competent with a defensive shotgun. A good foundation, but....
It's the complete package- Effective ballistics, efficient launch platform, and adequate awareness/personal skills.
You have none of those.
Denis
I don't think you have any idea of how to run a good pump UNDER STRESS, in a kill-or-die situation.
Squirrels & rabbits are not the same thing.
Can you shoot your PGO FAST?
Can you engage multiple targets FAST?
Can you switch distances FAST?
Can you be accurate in a string of slugs FAST?
Can you acquire one or more targets FAST?
Can you reload FAST?
Can you work it reasonably well one-handed?
Have you ever actually worked a building with it?
No to all, I'd say.
Remember in the PM where I suggested you find videos of somebody who knows what they're doing running a realistic course (not just slowfire paper-punching or mugging for a camera or girlfriend) so you can get an idea of what might be involved if you ever need to use your gun?
The suggestion still stands. You may find it an eye-opener as far as believing you're speedy with your PGO goes.
Hunting & casual plinking do not make you either knowledgeable or competent with a defensive shotgun. A good foundation, but....
It's the complete package- Effective ballistics, efficient launch platform, and adequate awareness/personal skills.
You have none of those.
Denis
oneounceload
member
Again, using a 410 inside with new ammo configurations seem more and more doable every day. However, PERSONALLY, I would opt for the regular stock as it gives you three points of contact instead of two. A three-legged stool is more stable than a two legged one, just as a gun with three points of contact is more steady than a gun with two or one
pikid89
Member
As many he
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For situation that I might need to fire one handed I do carry a revolver (and I am very good with it)
and while I'm no hickok45 I can reach out a touch a threat with the same revolver.
and you might say "But that's cheating,you'd be using a handgun in a shotgun COF"
"Always cheat, always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose." ~ Colonel Jeff Cooper (I got the quote wrong on that one,corrected)
and while I'm no hickok45 I can reach out a touch a threat with the same revolver.
and you might say "But that's cheating,you'd be using a handgun in a shotgun COF"
"Always cheat, always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose." ~ Colonel Jeff Cooper (I got the quote wrong on that one,corrected)
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Justin
Moderator Emeritus
Because, like it or not, when you open carry in public you are automatically stepping into the role of being an ambassador for the open carry movement. While I don't know what the open carry laws are like where you live, in many places support for them is, at best, tenuous and those who are open carry advocates in those locations are served well by going about their business in a more rational way, primarily by dressing professionally and carrying a sidearm that has utility as it's purpose rather than flamboyant attention-seeking.
P,
I'm not talking about consciously deciding up front "I may need to fire one-handed on this one, so I'll take the 64 instead of the PGO". I'm talking about an injured hand situation. In which, a full-stocked shotgun can be manipulated, fired, and reloaded more efficiently as a scenario progresses.
In a previous life, my get-through-the-night tools were a Model 64 & a stocked 12 gauge 870.
The 870 was a great comforter on occasion, the 64 not so much.
I still have both.
Had I been issued a .410 PGO, it would never have left the cop car till the shift was over.
Given a choice (or restricted to) a .410 PGO & the 64 for handling unhappy people, it'd be the 64.
Denis
I'm not talking about consciously deciding up front "I may need to fire one-handed on this one, so I'll take the 64 instead of the PGO". I'm talking about an injured hand situation. In which, a full-stocked shotgun can be manipulated, fired, and reloaded more efficiently as a scenario progresses.
In a previous life, my get-through-the-night tools were a Model 64 & a stocked 12 gauge 870.
The 870 was a great comforter on occasion, the 64 not so much.
I still have both.
Had I been issued a .410 PGO, it would never have left the cop car till the shift was over.
Given a choice (or restricted to) a .410 PGO & the 64 for handling unhappy people, it'd be the 64.
Denis
FIVETWOSEVEN
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You mean you can reach out and touch a target, its alot different if you're being shot at. I can hit a target at 200 yards with my XD, standing up. I doubt I could do that if its shooting back at me.
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