Mossberg Just in Case at the Range

[DAdams]

My brother in law bought one of these for HD. He is a bit of a novice to shotguns and when he asked me about grip handled units I tried to steer him away from one in favor of something with a stock. I just assumed the recoil would be to much. Yesterday we took it out for a trial run. 2 3/4 number 7.

I was quite surprised that the recoil was rather moderate. I ran the first round then pumped that last 4 as fast as I could. It was quite accurate at 20 yards and easy to control. We didn't run any 00 nor 3 inch so perhaps the ante goes up?

After the three of us shot it back to back following a quick 15 rounds, it was definitely heated up.

I don't think I would personally take such a negative (unintiated) view from here on out regarding shotguns with pistol grips.

 

[lobo9er]

double barrel coach gun both barrels from the hip a few times. then practice with the new mossy. It wont seem to bad then.

 

[lobo9er]

I can tell you hiking through the woods with that thing swing around like in the picture isnt gonna be fun.

 

[Girodin]

So you casually shot a few rounds of light bird shot loads and that is being initiated and has convinced you of what exactly?

 

[lobo9er]

convinced him that he may be able to use the mossy JIC with out to much trouble. Thats what I got out of his post.

 

[RaceM]

If those had been magnum loads I do believe your thoughts on the subject would be a bit different. Also, after a box or two of target blasting with the light loads I'd be curious as to how your arms and shooting hand/wrist felt. I'm no puss when it comes to heavy recoil, but I'm ever so glad I shoot a full stock and LimbSaver pad on my Mossies.

 

[RugerMcMarlin]

I've heard of pistol grip only, shotguns being inferior to full stock versions in tests. The more I think about it I tend to agree. When you go to PGO, you throw away all the experience of a lifetime of shooting from the shoulder. For the intended use of protection, I would think the more familiar the better. Are there things its better at, absolutely. For a test try sitting on your butt in a closet(simulated),at the whistle,spring the door open, engage 3 targets, at bedroom -hallway distance. Compare with full stock version for times. For that matter, just time to first hit.

I think you will notice on most tests designed to prove the superiority, focus mainly on better accuracy/speed at distance. If you keep this in mind you can come up with tests based on limited space/cramped quarters or on a distance more likely to be used. Unless your home or office is 30-40 yds long it might be a distance advantage you can't use or don't need. I can see a successful good shoot/court defense based on the experts agreeing on its limited range, and the fact that you were able to smoke all 3 as proof they had you cornered. If the range increase is of utmost importance then perhaps a carbine might be an advantage over a shotgun. As for go shoot a box of shells and see how your wrist feels. That may be a concern for practice, I think you will probably cure most self defense situations in something under a box.

Shepherds in Corsica. Sicily and Italy, have used Luparas (wolf gun) for at least a hundred years. They use them because they are light, reliable, and because they have for generations. They only have 2 shots. If a skinny kid in the hills of Sicily can hang onto a Lupara. Then maybe you could learn to use something, that has twice as much barrel and weight.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

Pistol grips look sexy in the movies. They aren't all that great for real world shooting.

 

[DAdams]

convinced him that he may be able to use the mossy JIC with out to much trouble. Thats what I got out of his post.

I own a number of shotguns and have been hunting with one for over 45 years. Any shotgunning I have done in the past was clays, wing or 4 legged.

The reports of short barreled shotguns with pistol grips I have read have been mostly negative (think reported lightweight snub nosed revolvers shooting .357 magnum rounds).

This was my first opportunity to handle one with an 18 inch and pistol grip.

I simply imagined something that it wasn't is all.

This is not my shotgun btw, just one brought to the acreage for a Memorial Day cookout and a trial run.

 

[Frozen North]

IMO, no stock is like tying one hand behind your back in a fight. It may make you look cool, but that is where it ends. I will take control and accuracy any day. Its not like you can conceal the thing anyway.

 

[au01st]

I love my PG Mossberg 500. No problems hitting what I'm aiming at out to 20 yards, which is twice the longest straight line distance in my house.

I keep Winchester PDX1 loads in there at home, which consist of a 1oz slug and 3 00BK. Patterned them today at the range and at 10 yards the slug and 3 00BK were within 7" for all 10 rounds.

 

[DAdams]

Pistol grips look sexy in the movies. They aren't all that great for real world shooting.

IMO, no stock is like tying one hand behind your back in a fight. It may make you look cool, but that is where it ends. I will take control and accuracy any day. Its not like you can conceal the thing anyway.

So you casually shot a few rounds of light bird shot loads and that is being initiated and has convinced you of what exactly?
Today 08:38 PM

I am not trying to be a myth buster here. I can claim that there is a business case that could be made for such a configuration. Will it be my first line of defense HD shotgun, definitely not, but it is certainly not out of the realm of possibility for use in certain situations. Discretely hidden somewhere, truck gun, etc.

I have a Maverick 88 in such a configuration that I have looked at for three years wondering what it would be like to shoot. Now I know. I could hit the broad side of a barn and not suffer a broken wrist.

That's about it.



This is my only full stock short barrel.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Here we go again....

Few if any PGO shotguns turn up at practical competitions or in the inventories of folks who go in harm's way regularly. Exception, Breaching tools.

No major shooting school has classes in shooting PGO shotguns.IOW, no major instructor thinks of the PGO shotgun as a real weapon.

Clint Smith will teach you to run a single shot shotgun but not a PGO.

The sole advantage of a PGO is storage. If you're a bush pilot or crossing the NW passage in a kayak, that may be important. Otherwise, no.

And perhaps the best testimony to the effectiveness of the PGO is this.....

Over ten years ago I first issued a challenge to the PGO fans.

We'd meet at the range of their choice in or near central MD.

They'd choose the COF, range and ammo.

They could use any accessory on their PGO including lasers and belt feed.

I'll use a close to stock but well used 870.

We'll shoot for score, time decides ties even though there will not be any.

I expect the same results as the last fifty times I've issued this challenge to the PGO fans.

.....crickets.....

 

[Girodin]

Now I know. I could hit the broad side of a barn and not suffer a broken wrist.

That's about it.

Add the caveat, that you can do it under recreational shooting conditions, and I take no issue with your claims.

 

[Marty183]

DAdams...How dare you go against the status quo? LOL...Thanks for another view on PGO shotguns. I don't own one but I can appreciate the points you are making...

 

[docnyt]

Ah finally a hands-on perspective on the JIC. I was looking for such a few months back but the thread I made was polluted by so much junk I requested it be shut down. All I requested back then was firsthand experience. Thanks OP.

 

[olderguns2]

my HD shotgun is full stock, and my hunting guns are full stock,
but my fun shotgun is a mossberg 500a, with Knoxx recoil-reducing pistol grip, the one that came with the gun was not terrible, but with the Knoxx I can shoot all day with no pain,
it's even easy to shoot one/handed as long as you can hold the weight of the gun.
and by the way if you lose the case and just pack the gun and 10 or 15 shells in your backpack you would be surprised how easy it is to carry camping.

 

[lobo9er]

I disagree with the negative out look on PGO's but I'm a glass half full guy. I think with practice its not to bad.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Shooting the light birdshot loads will give you plenty of unreliable but feel-good-about-yourself feedback. Very many pellets coming out of a birdshot shell. Not so many buckshot or slug pellets.

You need to do some real world testing before drawing conclusions about the uninitiated.

 

[DAdams]

Add the caveat, that you can do it under recreational shooting conditions, and I take no issue with your claims

That's exactly what we were doing. Private property. Memorial Day commradrie.

Shooting the light birdshot loads will give you plenty of unreliable but feel-good-about-yourself feedback.

To your point, we had 8 foot long 2X2s planted in the ground and the measly number seven bird shot cut them in half at 15 yards.

Hence to Mr. McKracken's point I wasn't aware this was such a volatile topic.
And indeed crickets. I wouldn't take that bet either.

Ours was just an exercise in fun trying out a NIB shotgun.

Again when my brother in law talked about getting the PGO I advised against it. It was number three on the list of what the Big Box Store salesman offered up based on what he was looking for.
His main criteria, he has a beat up shoulder and wanted zero recoil to that body part. Different strokes for different blokes.

 

[ForumSurfer]

No major shooting school has classes in shooting PGO shotguns.IOW, no major instructor thinks of the PGO shotgun as a real weapon.

There is reason enough for me. Lots and lots of shooters more talented than I have found through experience that PGO's just aren't more effective than a stock.

Over ten years ago I first issued a challenge to the PGO fans.

I'd listen to Dave, I've read his thoughts on the subject and since I lack proof to the contrary, I would back his stance.

I've shot PGO's. They may be handy somewhere for something, but they are not the best home defense option.

This is as tactical as I get with my shotguns, and I guess it isn't really tactical because of the finish. I love shooting the thing and I'm really surprised that the finish is still on it. It has worn off on the plug in the tube since it protrudes past the muzzle, but that's it. I just had to buy one when they were first released and it set me back a cool $295 brand spankin new (then):


I've practiced running drills inside my house (minus the live fire of course) and I have no trouble transitioning from left to right hand in tight quarters. I'll take the option with a stock any day of the week so that I stand a better chance of hitting my target with the first shot and the follow-up shots.

 

[ForumSurfer]

His main criteria, he has a beat up shoulder and wanted zero recoil to that body part. Different strokes for different blokes.

Even if you aren't shouldering it, your shoulder is still taking the blow. Seems like a perfect scenario for someone who needs an ar15. If you use the correct ammo, you won't be over-penetrating and shooting the neighbors in a self defense situation.

 

[goon]

I do like the idea of a compact weapon that gives more thump than a handgun. I kick the idea around myself of having something like that, be it shotgun or rifle, that I could stick in a "Get Me Home" bag. Having said that, why not go with a folder?
I don't see how it would cause that much of a disadvantage. It adds some width, but you don't get something for nothing and I know that a bead sighted cylinder bore can make minute of center mass hits at 100 yards because I did it consistently when I owned one, and without too much practice. I'd bet the guys in here who run shotguns more than I do could stretch the range even a little farther. But I can't imagine that working without a stock.
I don't know if a shotgun with a folder would fit in that tube that comes with a Mossberg JIC, but the first thing I'd to if I had to carry that thing would be strip that off anyhow. I don't want to carry that useless weight that slows me down from getting to my weapon. I'd rather carry more water, a few more rounds of ammo, extra socks, something else in my first aid kit - basically anything that could actually be of more use than a PVC tube. In other words, I don't care if it would fit in the tube after being so modified.

 

[DAdams]

They may be handy somewhere for something, but they are not the best home defense option.

I couldn't agree more, but it was fun anyway. Not my gun, not my money.
This guy is a Physician so of course he knows what is best for him.

He didn't take my advise. Hey, what do I know, I have only been shooting for 47 years and he...well if he has shot anything 25 times I would be surprised.

It has been liking pulling teeth just to get him to the point where he would deal with the concept of personal and home defense and get some experience...that is until some other Doc who is kind of a "survivalist" brought it up.

Who knows, maybe it was the free multi-tool and orange case that put him over the edge.

 

[goon]

You might get him to shoot some buck shot to convince him about the value of a stock. Low brass birdshot loads are fine out of such a gun, but I bet even just a few standard pressure 2.75" 00 buck will make his hand sore.
Some ballistic gel tests would be good evidence to show that birdshot is pretty unreliable for anything defensive other than a warning shot or a last ditch choice when it's all you have. Maybe you can get him plinking at some point and have an impromptu competion with your full stock gun, which you will almost certainly win, to show him his error.
I don't consider this situation a "loss" because the guy finally does see the need for a gun. His choice could be better, but you could say that of a lot of us with the guns we bought when we first started. Fortunately, this can be corrected at some point in the future with just the addition of a fixed or folding stock.