Most annoying Gun Myths

[MachIVshooter]

Errr, some do. One of the places we shoot has a big pile of bassalt as the backstop. We shoot rifles there. I have seen sprks from inpact on 30-06, .308 and 7.62x39. Non were steel core, all new production Wolf or reloads with Hornady bullets.

You know what I meant. It's the Hollywood Roman candle displays when bullets are impacting the back of a car, or the staircase of an apt. bldg., etc.

Bullets going into automobiles make holes. No sparks, no explosions. Holes.

 

[12GA00buck]

You cant hunt small game with a larger caliber rife because the animal will explode and you wont have anything left but a few bits of fur. Depending on the bullet construction, it will probably pass right through creating a permanent wound channel the size of the original projectile.

 

[Geno]

Guns kill.

Guns kill...that's my favorite myth.

Doc2005

 

[sacp81170a]

Myths that make me grit my teeth:

The one-shot stop with a handgun.
Everyone who gets shot dies (I'm living proof that it ain't so, twice over).
That if there's not a body of a dead BG lying at your feet, it wasn't a defensive gun use (a favorite way of the antis to skew statistics).
That bad guys care what caliber you're using.
That a gun in your hands will be taken away and used against you, but that a gun in a BG's hands is an awesome weapon that cannot be overcome.
That guns kill people. Guns don't kill people, gaping holes in vital organs kill people.

 

[mr.trooper]

Vs any hostiles who have trained to operate in squads, I'm afraid you'd be target practice like that. In THAT sort of scenario, I think a lifelong hunter with a scoped 30-30 is a lot more dangerous to hostile forces than any semi-trained non-drilled person with one short-range battle rifle. A hunting rifle becomes a sniper rifle when you change what the target is.

A group of trained, well-armed hostiles being successfully put down by civilians with battle rifles is "Red Dawn", sheer Hollywood, to me. But individual hunters taking single extreme-range shots from trees, bushes, houses, one at a time, unplaceable rifle cracks from all around the landscape, that's plausible.

i think the point is that 10,000 semi-trained militia members with semi-auto AKs will triumph over 1,000 enemy soldiers every time. Even Navy Seals teams loose when they get caught by 10-1 odds; thus we have the reason they rely so heavily on stealth.

A more likely roll for the militia is security detail while the Army and national guard duke it out with the invaders. Esentialy acting as third line troops. This is why realistic militas practice things like how to execute a patroll, or secure a building: not focusing completely on shooting paper targets.

 

[Prof. A. Wickwire]

Three pages and not one mention of the classic "Anyone with a gun is compensating for something..." I once heard somebody say that it had been statistically proven that gun owners had smaller penises than the rest of the population. Of course, he made this claim with no evidence whatsoever.

Snap,

Actually, I think if you average the penis size of all American gun owners you will get a size smaller than the national average. Of course, this is because many gun owners are WOMEN with a penis size of about zero.

Also, if I am compensating for something, why do I collect pocket pistols?

Sincerely,

Prof. A. Wickwire

 

[razorburn]

Sir Isaac Newton proved this several hundred years ago and it became his Third Law of Motion. Note that it is a Law of Science, not a hypothesis or theory. It is always true that "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." If you think that for some reason Newtonian physics don't apply to bullets it would be up to you to prove that is the case.

wuchak I think you're confused. I'm the guy saying there should be an equal and opposite reaction, I said it at the 2nd page, top post. Then another guy says that it's the momentum and not the kinetic energy of the recoiling weapon that's equal to the bullet. This may or may not be true, but he did an equation where he assumes that the momentum of the two are equal, and uses it to prove that velocity has a 4x greater effect on kinetic energy calculation than mass. But without having any actual data, we can't really prove whether it's kinetic energy or momentum that's equal. Should be that an equal amount of energy was transferred to the gun as was transferred to the bullet though.

 

[scout26]

I was going to start a seperate thread/rant about this:

Illegal guns. [Rant mode: ON]

Tain't no such thing. A firearm has no freewill, it can not do anything on it's on. Therefore, it can never be "Illegal". What is illegal is for said person to own/possess it.

If my car is stolen and used to knock over a bank, it is not referred to by the headline writers as an "Illegal Car Used in Robbery."

If I sell my car to someone who does not have a licence, it does not become a "Illegal Car", even if the new owner is twelve years old, has twenty DUI's, gets wasted and goes out runs over a bunch of schoolkids and little old ladies. (Yes, I'm an idiot for selling it to twelve year old with prior DUI's and without a licence, but that's a whole different story. )

It's like "Assualt Weapon". Whoever can define/shape the battlefield greatly improves their chances of winning. That's where we're losing, we're reacting to their choice of verbage/wording.

[/Rant mode: OFF]

 

[jhco50]

That my friends was started in the gun magazines many years ago. They were trying to sell elephant poofers for deer. They pretty much killed much of the popularity of the 30-30 because the manufacturers paid good money to advertise in their rags. Seems they may be partly responsible for the demise of the Winchester 94.

A couple of years ago, one of my younger brothers was asked to go hunting for the first time. His friend suggested a 7mm Mag. I told him he had the perfect hunting rifle in his Win 30-30 and he informed me his friend told him it wasn't big enough for mule deer.

My favorite: "That old 30-30 is obsolete, I don't understand why you even carry it. It couldn't knock down a deer at 50 yards. You NEED a .300 Mag. for deer!!!"
I'm betting you have heard that too.

 

[mcosman]

Kinetic energy VS momentum

IF you double the velocity of an object you double it's momentum, this is a nice neat linear relationship that is shown in Newt's 3rd law. Higher weight slower speed gun vs lower weight high speed bullet.

Kinetic energy is proportional to the square of an objects velocity. Double the velocity Quadrouple the KE. This is what is reffered to earlier. He is right and did not make assumptions. He did an excellent job of simplifying and providing the math for his real world example. He just didn't show the math for the gun and bullet being the same momentum, probably because the guns velocity during recoil is not a readily measured or published #. But bullet velocity is.

Momentum = mass X velocity 1000Kg object at 1 meter/sec = 1000kg M/sec.
Kinetic energy = 0.5 X mass X velocity(Squared) thatss 0.5X1000KgX1m/s = 500 Joules

So a smaller objet moving faster

Momentum = 1kg object moving 1000m/sec(Squared) = 1000kg m/s same momentum as above but.....
KE = .5X1kgX1000m/s(squared) = 500000 Joules

So you can clearly see that two objects with the same momentum can have very different Kinetic Energy, thats why people on this forum prefer to stand behind the larger object with the same momentum. Newtons 3rd applies to momentum, equal and opposite reactions but with physics on our side.

I hope this helps clear that up.

 

[earthworm]

the 50/50 rule

No matter what gun you own/carry/are considering buying/are discussing everyone owns/has owned/knows someone (usually an ex-Marine sniper) who owns/has owned one & 50% of those "can hit a hummingbird on the fly at 50 yards & it never jammed,etc." while the other 50% "couldn't hit a barn wall if I wuz in the barn & it wouldn't fire twice without jamming".

 

[pete f]

Clips as always being wrong for cartridge feeding devices. For years manufacturers call them this. I have Marlin, Remington, Winchester and Stevens Savage catalogs from the 50's 60's 70's and 80's that list .22 repeaters as clip fed, and list spare parts/extras available as 5, 7 and 10 shot clips.

I have a 99C (C for Clip Fed as per the manual) Savage model 99. I have a 88 winchester which states in the hang tag that "extra clips may be purchased from Winchester or Winchester Authorized dealers"

When I was growing up. A magazine was a location where ammunition and powder was stored prior to use. A En bloc was M1 extra. A stripper was a device that held ammunition ready for use in your pocket.




I have had it with guys making decisions about what guns are too big for women to shoot.

Statements that begin with "it was 450 yards away." about the only people I really trust with visual distance estimation are professional caddies.

Guys who are built like John Candy or Rudolph Wanderone who talk about being "force recon" or "team six" members.

People who have read a question about laws in NY and give an answer about the laws in North Carolina or Wisconsin.

People who answer questions about rifles and or cartridges who have never shot one, handled one, or read the ballistics tables about one.

The 300 WSM is far superior to the 300 winmag.

Get a 30-06 for a light kicking chambering in a LTWT rifle.

A 1911 is too hard to carry concealed, get a Sig/hk/CZ/XD instead.

A 12 gauge loaded with BB is about as useful as a club for home defense.

A load of 6 shot can be stopped by a heavy coat at inside-the-house ranges.

My 870 broke.

Your lucky to get a whole clip full of rounds to fire thru a 742/7400.

My brother had a Savage 110 that would not shoot.

Any answer to "why did you shoot that guy" that is not "I was really scared and I am in no shape to talk right now, I am going to wait for my attorney to show up." Memorize this, write it on your palm if you have to.

'' You need to glass bed that "remwinmarrugweabrosako" to get it to shoot, everyone needs to do this as a first step"

posted ? "I am looking at a Dakota, Cooper, or D'arcy Echols rifle, I am going to be spending 3 months in Zimbabwe, and Mozambique, Which do you like better" Answer. "I think you should buy the H&R Handi Rifle."
Answer 2 "buy a Moisin Nagant because you can get surplus ammo for cheap. The guy is admitting to looking at guns that start at 2K and is wealthy enough to take three months off work and spend $30K on tags, airfare, guides and taxidermy fees and someone tells him to get a $200 gun.

A baikal or mossberg is competition to a Perazzi or Rizzini.

Bill Ruger made a deal with the Anti-Christ, no one should ever buy a Ruger

For White Tail deer in deep woods and brush, you need a 338 winmag.

My $3500 M1A Super National Match built on a Virgin Winchester receiver with a Air gauged Krieger barrel is an "Assault weapon". The only thing it ever assaulted was my wallet.

A rifle that shoots 1.5 inch groups all day long, hot or cold, to the same point of impact is not accurate enough to hunt white tails.

Prairie Dogs are endangered.

That shooting any animal you do not recover does not count against your tag or possession limit.

That a model 19 4" or a model 13 4" is not a good house gun.

That a stock series 70 Colt 1911 is not adequate for HD.




I have more just ask

 

[BobTheTomato]

Gun free school zones

 

[btsyshsbnd]

that it's ok to open the cylinder of a revolver then close it with a snap of the wrist, I cringe everytime I see that

 

[Molon Labe]

So you can clearly see that two objects with the same momentum can have very different Kinetic Energy

Yep.

In this post, I calculated that the bullet exiting the barrel of my FAL has over 400 times the kinetic energy than that imparted onto the the rifle.

 

[Keith Wheeler]

Thompsons have uncontrollable muzzle-climb.

MACs are completely uncontrollable.

Suppressed weapons either make no sound at all or sound like a sci-fi laser gun.

Submachine-guns can be used in a "spray and pray" area control manner.

Machine guns are "illegal".

High ROF belt-feds can be continually operated (MG42 operators changed barrels every 100 rounds).

High ROF weapons are uncontrollable and useless (ever seen an American 180?).

There's no real advantage to fully-automatic fire (depends heavily on the situation).

 

[repsychler]

"They won't take away my duck gun."

I can't stand anti-gun gun owners. Get a clue! The notion that hunting rifles are "sniper rifles" is already out there, and once they have everything else, you can rest assured they'll come for yours, too. Your duck/deer/skeet/whatever gun is NOT safe from the antis.

 

[learn2shoot]

Myths

Go one wants to take your guns away (+1)

A shotgun is not useful for home defense. (actually - A ______ gun is not useful for home defense)

Guns should be licensed and registered like cars

_____ is the right gun for _____


nobody need a gun in ___________

of course it is true that nobosy kneads a gun.... maybe that is what they are talking about.

The Second amendment is a collective right.

I read in the New York Times ___________

 

[Mikee Loxxer]

That serving in the military or being a law enforcement officer makes you a weapons expert.

 

[Phil DeGraves]

That the 357 magnum is powerful enough to "penetrate an engine block".

That DA revolver cylinders make a clicking noise when you spin them.

That a hollow point bullet blows out a four inch circular hole through the back of a bad guy when it goes through him.

That bullets can be bounced off multiple surfaces with the same accuracy of a billiard ball bouncing off the banks of a pool table.

Someone actually told me once that bullets melt from the ignition and friction of the barrel, so that they are actually only molten blobs of lead as they pass through the air and harden only after they hit something when they cool off.

 

[Radjxf]

This one from my mother-in-law: "Guns just go off". She has some story about a gun that went off and killed a kid in a house a mile away or some such BS.

 

[Green Lantern]

I gotta respect my elders, but they're all "revlover guys..."

Which is FINE, excpet ANY semiauto in their eyes = a "hair-trigger job." :banghead:

Let's just say the fact that I carry with one in the pipe is a "don't ask don't tell" proposition....

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

The group of myths that annoys me the most has already been mentioned, but since it's so pervasive and destined to reappear here, I'll list it.

"________ is against the Geneva convention to use on people. That's why we are trained to aim at their equipment."

 

[mdao]

Guns are XX times more likely to kill a family member than an intruder.

wuchak I think you're confused. I'm the guy saying there should be an equal and opposite reaction, I said it at the 2nd page, top post. Then another guy says that it's the momentum and not the kinetic energy of the recoiling weapon that's equal to the bullet. This may or may not be true, but he did an equation where he assumes that the momentum of the two are equal, and uses it to prove that velocity has a 4x greater effect on kinetic energy calculation than mass. But without having any actual data, we can't really prove whether it's kinetic energy or momentum that's equal. Should be that an equal amount of energy was transferred to the gun as was transferred to the bullet though.

Razorburn:

You've confused the Conservation of Energy with Newton's Third Law of Motion.

The Conservation of Energy just says you can't destroy energy, only change it's form. Guns follow this law by turning chemical energy into kinetic energy + heat energy + light energy + sonic energy + etc. This says nothing about the kinetic energy imparted to the bullet or rifle. (Not completely true. By using the Conservation of Energy and the Conservation of Momentum laws together, we can find the momemtum and kinetic energy of the bullet and the gun. But, do the math and we'll find that the kinetic energy of the gun and bullet will not be equal.)

The Newton's Third Law of Motion is the "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction." This refers to force not energy as Newton's Three Laws of Motion are only concerned with motion. Using Newton's Third Law along with the Second Law (F=m*a), the force applied to the bullet is equal (and opposite) to the force applied to the gun. Integrate that quantity over time and we find that the momentum of the gun + brass is equal to the momentum of the bullet + gasses.

 

[tenbase]

I don't know if this has been mentioned already, but the idea amongst non-shooters, particularly antis, that using a handgun is a simple draw, point, and click affair, regardless of distance. Point, click, and the target drops. One-handed, at that. Under stress. In a snowstorm. Shooting uphill.

I dunno about you guys, but I'm lucky to hit the backstop with a pistol unless I really concentrate. Okay I'm not that bad. But still.

Yeah, I know, practice makes perfect. But with the above mentality, this is not an issue. Anyone can simply pick up the gun and shoot someone! It's that simple!