"Mr Large" - first outing, and ammo figures.

[P95Carry]

Forced myself to get to range this afternoon (real struggle!) ..... in fact was not over endowed with time but - just had to be done! Conditions - bright and mostly sunny but - more than irksome gusty wind. Light also at this time of day is already coming round behind targets - not useful. Had two lots of ammo - 20 rnds of ''mortgage category'' Rem 405 grn JSP, and 10 rounds of first homeloads .... 40 grains rather old RL7 shoving a Lasercast 405 FP, all in Starline brass. Primer was Rem 9 1/2 (using up some old stock) - this load based on inspection of several lots of rifle load data - and is about a lever action load. Set up chrono a few feet forward of bench .. three sandbags for resting. Here's basic set up for initial sighting in at 25 yds.

It was very tedious and wasteful of ammo - getting the HoloSight set up to be on the paper, but eventually got there (why I didn't bore sight before going out I don't know!!!). Also (more poor planning!) .. Chrony printer died on me almost before I'd started .. duh! Who forgot spare batteries!?) - so all figures recorded on back of an old target! Yet again ... laziness will prevail and SD will not be calculated!!

First ten rounds of the Rem were all getting sighted ..... didn't take speeds.

Once actually on paper at 25 .... set up 50 yd target, and started taking chrono readings. Took another five shots to be approx centered on a large board and put up a paper target for final five rounds of Rem left without further sight changes. Target below ......

Let me say - the damned wind, even with gun rested, was NOT helping any and I am sure spread my shots. This target has one shot clipping upper right .. the other shots you can see. Hardly tight but .. bearable. Needed another few rounds of Rem to bring hits in tighter to center. Here are the figures for 10 rounds of the Rem ammo .......

Ammo type ........ Remington 45-70 (for all rifles) ..... 405 grain JSP.

Shot # 1 - 1032 fps
Shot # 2 - 1012 fps
Shot # 3 - 1023 fps
Shot # 4 - 1009 fps
Shot # 5 - 947.9 fps (!!!)
Shot # 6 - 1031 fps
Shot # 7 - 1034 fps
Shot # 8 - 1019 fps
Shot # 9 - 1052 fps
Shot # 10 -1015 fps

Low vel = 947.9 fps
Hi vel = 1052 fps
Average vel = 1017.5
Hi-Lo extreme spread = 104 fps
Muzzle energy (based on average vel) = 931 ft lbs


The Rem ammo is obviously soft loaded ... safe in everything. Thru this weight of gun it is a pussycat load ...... stout but hardly uncomfortable at all. One round let down the spread figure ... which otherwise was pretty good. This ammo is probably below 25,000 psi



Proceeded then to try the homeload stuff. Without any initial sight changes laid several shots down (still danged wind troublesome) ... you'll see on target below that the bias is low right. The lowest shot was me I think. Also seems like one went wide of target altogether. For final two shots I cranked on some up and left (not enough up and too much left!). Leaving aside me and sight adjustment excesses, the six main group has makings of useful. Wish I'd had more ammo, tho wrist was tiring a bit!

Here is the chrono data ........

Ammo type ........ Homeload 45-70 .. 405 grain Lasercast SP.. 40 grains RL7, Starline brass and Rem 9 1/2 primer..

Shot # 1 - 1305 fps
Shot # 2 - 1342 fps
Shot # 3 - 1318 fps
Shot # 4 - 1254 fps (!!!!)
Shot # 5 - 1300 fps
Shot # 6 - 1307 fps
Shot # 7 - 1316 fps
Shot # 8 - 1283 fps
Shot # 9 - 1292 fps
Shot # 10 -1313 fps

Low vel = 1254 fps
Hi vel = 1342 fps
Average vel = 1303 fps
Hi-Lo extreme spread = 88 fps
Muzzle energy (based on average vel) = 1527 ft lbs


This is looking more useful, tho seemingly as always - one round spoils the spread figures. Even so not too bad and I didn't weight bullets I must admit. Did use factory crimp tho, and powder was accurate to 0.1 grain. Recoil is ''brisk''!! --- no, pretty strong! Not however up to .454 Casull hot loads, but, crank up power to match those levels and it probably will. The gun's weight is a major factor in taking the sting out, tho it lifts a full 90º and some ..... nearly whacking the spotting scope once! This load is probably in region of 30,000 psi - and the gun will accept 35,000 loads. Reckon I can go further safely with ease (in stages) ... cases from these loads fell out .. and primers not flattened at all.


Out of interest - the pic below is an attempt to show sight picture. The light colored arch is the diffusers on the chrono ... but if you look close you should see the red dot just under that (mainly the sticker actually here) ... just to right of target support post. This sight does give a good field of view .... nice to use. The final pic is similar but zoomed in a bit ..... and easier to see red dot on the orange aiming sticker, tho not on exact center.

Conclusions? ....... this is one nice gun to shoot, albeit not too many rounds in a session. Trigger breaks at 4 1/2 lbs and is quite nice. Not as smooth as I would like yet but workable, and no actual creep.

I'd like to have had more ammo of both types, particularly homeloads - as I think once sights right on, it'll produce some OK groups. Yet to get to 100 yds .... that'll be next time - when I hope the grouping will be close to that today at 50 yds - well the ''trend'' anyways! I'll post more another time regarding loads and results when I get them.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

These are the two rounds used today .......

 

[tex_n_cal]

Try taking your case mouth expander out, and turning it down to .452" or less in diameter. You will have a much tighter bullet fit, which combined with a firm crimp will improve accuracy and consistency.

I think you can also get comp seating dies in the .45-70 from Redding or Forster, but Hornadys will be cheaper and have the same bullet alignment feature. The down side of Hornadys is you can't easily reduce the expander size.

 

[P95Carry]

tex ..... in fact .... the mouth expander in my Lee die set is already plenty small (tho haven't mic's it) I reckon. Even if I bell the mouth resonably generously ..... there is still a tendency to shave a smidgeon of lead!!! In the pic of the ammo .. it is fairly apparent that you can see the grease-groove ''ripple'' showing .. I doubt I'd want to go any tighter.

Only thing I'd change for now is to seat just a fraction deeper ... the crimp right now is not biting quite right on top groove - COL is a hair longer than 2.55, but not much. Even so it is a good crimp .... and looking at round #5 in the cyl after shooting four .. the bullet is staying put.

Good points tho and thx .. all these things need thought of for sure.

 

[dodgestdshift]

P95carry:

Try the Lee Factory Crimp die on your loads. I found that it shrank velocity spreads somewhat.

I am not familiar with your holo sight. Could you have a small parallax error at 50 yds? Hold your gun steady sighted on a target at that range, and move your head. Does the dot move? If it does maybe that is part of your group size problem.

 

[P95Carry]

Dodge ........ as I mentioned ........ I am in fact using the Lee factory Crimp ... like I do on most cals these days. The applied crimp is pretty significant. In fact, apart from one round in the 10 .... I didn't think the spread was too awful. I will tho be trying to shrink it!

This sight is AFAIK and can tell .. parallax free .... you can mover the dot anywhere within the ''frame'' and it stays put ... better than any other red dot I have. Plus, having used red dots quite extensively now for a while - do find I naturally keep the dot well centered.

The wind did play a part ... it was I think blowing 20 a lot and gusting 25 even 30 now and again. Tho gun was rested, I did feel some disturbance. Add to that the back-lighting .... and of course probably too some lack of skill on my part .. and I was not too surprised at the groups being a bit open.

I shall try of course to get them much better ... always the ultimate challenge.

 

[gbran]

P95

Great report. I hope you do follow up with further reports as you get this BFR dialed in. The 45-70 is one of the most versatile and fun cartridges ever made.

 

[paul105]

P95Carry,

Great Pics, great report. Could the one low chrono reading for both Rem and Lazer Cast be the same chamber?? Just a thought.

 

[P95Carry]

Paul....... interesting thought there, re chambers and lower vel rounds. I think it highly unlikely but - I will get to check tolerances and gen dimensions just to see if there is any discrepancy. Thx for mentioning - an angle to check out for sure.

Gbran ..... thx to you and paul for kind words...... I will certainly write up some more later .. but gotta say .... this evening caseydog came over and we went to range to throw some lead. prior to him arriving I worked up another ten rounds of the same homeload .... 40 grains Reloader 7 .. and the 405 lasercast. We had five shots each. My five (and remembering I am getting used to the gun now) were actually VERY pleasing.

I had tweaked sights from before and had a very reasonable group ... called one shot and that was as expected. Two rounds tho near keyholed in the orange stick on center. caseydog did Ok but shot lower .. first time with the gun, not so used to S/A and the grips. I am sure he could (insert grin) - ''get used to it''!

So - could well be this load is about where I might stay .... maybe up by one grain but - it is plenty to handle and I think gonna work out well. Next main test will be some 100 yd work.

 

[gbran]

P95

Chat and B.S. is fun, but threads like these are the real meat and potatos of THR.

 

[P95Carry]

real meat and potatos of THR.

Same here dude ...... same here. It's what it's all about IMO.

Sharing of experience .... even trial and error. Tho hopefully none of has too much error!

Shoot well, and stay safe.

 

[caseydog]

Needed one line just for the grin!

Awesome gun , first of all it's about as fine a piece of craftsmanship as you'll find in a revolver.

I'm a bit of a recoil junky , but have little experience with single action guns , so I was a little anxious about the recoil characteristics , how tight to hang on , where to put the offhand thumb etc.

First shot was waaay low on the bottom edge of the paper , fighting it too hard I guess, pushing down reflexively. Second shot a bit higher , about a 6 ring I guess. After that I don't remember the order of the shots but I put 2 more low and 1 good one just right of the Bull . 3 of the low shots were grouped somewhat in the same neighborhood so even though I was fighting the gun, I was at least fighting it consistently !

The recoil was a bit shocking , make no mistake it is stout , but I didn't find it painful in any way, and Chris wouldn't have had to twist my arm to send another cylinder full downrange.

Had a great evening with Chris , pretty hard not to actually, good folk , good guns ,good conversation, good time . Need to do it more often. Thanks Chris.

Ray