Mussolini and gun control

[monotonous_iterancy]

I recently watched a documentary on Mussolini and his rise to power. It struck me as exactly what our Bill of Rights is there to prevent, especially the 2nd amendment.

Apparently, his blackshirts obtained guns from sympathetic army members who funneled them to them. They then proceeded to wage a campaign of violence and intimidation against members of opposing political movements, especially socialists. Now, I can't stand socialism, but they still have the right to their opinion, and to assemble peacefully.

I kept thinking that had there been more private ownership of weapons, his blackshirts wouldn't have gotten far had it been dangerous for them to wage their campaign of terror. Perhaps they might have reconsidered their life choices if a socialist they were intending to murder produced their own weapon.

So does anyone know what the state of private gun ownership was in Italy at the time? Was it common or not?

I think this could be an interesting historical case to demonstrate the necessity of the Second Amendment to people. Mussolini and his band of violent thugs basically strong-armed a free and advanced society out of democracy.

 

[goerz]

I don't know about the state of private gun ownership at the time (the Fascists took power in 1922), but I know that the current Italian license and registration system was first introduced in 1926. Until then, guns could be bought without formalities, although carrying a handgun still required a permit.
Goerz

 

[monotonous_iterancy]

^ Is it difficult to legally own a gun?

 

[goerz]

^ Is it difficult to legally own a gun?

You mean, now? You need a gun license, and guns must be registered. Getting a hunting or sporting license isn't that difficult, you need a clean legal record and a certificate from your doctor. Those licenses however don't allow you to carry a gun for self defense. Getting a CCW permit is very difficult, because you have to show the actual need for carrying a gun, and the police authorities have great latitude in deciding whether to issue the permit or not.
Goerz

 

[monotonous_iterancy]

Hmm. So it's kind of like Canada I suppose? Are you allowed to own semi-autos, handguns, any restrictions on what you can own?

On another note, I assume that you're Italian. Do you have any opinion on my post thesis? Were there a lot of privately held guns back then? Would it have made much of a difference?

 

[goerz]

We have limitations on the number of firearms and on the amount of ammo, and we also have an odd ban on 9mm luger semiauto pistols (revolvers and carbines are fine), which are reserved for police use. That's why the most popular caliber in Italy is 9x21, an almost exact replica of 9x19, with a longer case and the same OAL. No limits on handgun magazine capacity. For rifles, we have a 5 rounds limit for military weapons converted to semiauto for civilian use, and apparently 29 rounds for all the other semiauto rifles, although this is still debatable, some argue that there are no limits on rifle magazines capacity (the law isn't clear on the issue).
Full-automatic/select-fire firearms (machineguns) are forbidden; all military ammunition (such as 5.7x28mm, 4.6x30mm, .50-BMG and up) are not available to the public. On the other hand, standard military calibers such as 5.56x45mm NATO and 7.62x51mm NATO are available in civilian loads and with civilian denominations (such as .223 Remington, .308 Winchester). Semi-automatic firearms, including handguns, can be bought by licensees without additional restrictions.

Regarding the role played by guns in Mussolini's ascent to power, it's a complex topic and the reasons why Fascism had popular support are numerous. One should also consider the Italian regime before Mussolini: it was not certainly a modern democracy, but an elitist society whose leaders didn't hesitate to send hundreds of thousands of mostly low class citizens to the massacre of WWI, keeping them under the iron fist of a sanguinary military discipline (decimations of entire units that didn't perform well in battle were common). After the war, there were unemployment and discontent. In the end, Mussolini's opponents were a minority, and I don't know if more guns would have made a difference.
Goerz

 

[foghornl]

Same deal with those in power in pre-WWII Germany, and also in Soviet Russia.

Don't remember exactly what the quote was, but in "Gulag Archipelago" Alexander Solzhenitsyn (sp??) mused about how the Soviet agents would have acted, knowing that going out to arrest people at midnight might have resulted in those agents not returning home.