Must I Setup a Gun Trust For NFA Items, or Does My General Estate Trust Suffice?

[Gary H]

This is probably a really dumb question, but I thought it was worth asking.
Also, if I have a personally purchased pistol carbine, can I still SBR with ATF via a trust established after personally purchasing the pistol carbine without stock, or brace?
Thanks…

 

[AlexanderA]

If you're going to go the trust route, it would make sense to have a separate trust for each gun. Certainly don't include the guns in your general estate trust. Different purposes and people involved in each case.

I personally am leery of trusts in general (for normal people), even though I aced the Trusts and Estates class in law school (that was a long time ago -- U. of Texas 1969, to be exact). The big winners in the field of trusts are the lawyers. Color me cynical.

 

[dogtown tom]

This is probably a really dumb question, but I thought it was worth asking.
Also, if I have a personally purchased pistol carbine, can I still SBR with ATF via a trust established after personally purchasing the pistol carbine without stock, or brace?
Thanks…

It's not a dumb question.
1. No, you don't need a trust, LLC or corporation to apply for a NFA tax stamp. It does have benefits that a Form 4 for an individual does not.
2. The language of your current trust must be valid and lawful in your sttate of residence. ATF uses a checklist for each state as some states have different requirements as to what is considered a valid trust.
3. If you submit a Form 4 for a transfer or a Form 1 to make an NFA firearm using a trust, LLC or corp, everyone that is considered a "Responsible Person" must submit fingerprints, photographs, the RP questionnaire and pass an FBI NICS check. The more people who are listed as RP's increases the likelihood that someone can't clear the FBI NICS check process.
Responsible Person. In the case of a legal entity, including any trust, partnership, association, company (to include any Limited Liability Company (LLC)), corporation,
or Licensed Entity that does not pay the Special (Occupational) Tax, any individual who possesses, directly or indirectly, the power or authority to direct the
management and policies of the trust or entity to receive, possess, ship, transport, deliver, transfer or otherwise dispose of a firearm for, or on behalf of, the trust or legal
entity.

4. Any handgun or rifle can be made into an SBR. Doesn't matter what it started as. SBER's and SBS's are only NFA firearms when configured as such.

 

[Frank Ettin]

This is probably a really dumb question,...

It's not that it's a dumb question, but there's no way we can answer it. Whether your existing trust will serve your needs for NFA items depends, among other things, on exactly what your existing trust says (which is none of our business) and exactly what your personal, financial circumstances are (which is also none of our business).

 

[Gary H]

I accept that it would be best for me to talk to my attorney regarding the value of a gun trust vs my estate trust, which covers all personal property, with my house and automobiles registered separately with the county/state.

On a whim, upon waking up in the middle of the night, I purchased an SP-5, which is purely a pistol without any stock/brace. I didn’t realize that braces are, at least for now, not generally allowed. So, I recognize that I should get this firearm on Form 1 to convert it into an SBR and add a stock. So, I personally purchased and this coming week, will pickup and go through NICS as an individual. Will the ATF allow me to convert this to an SBR on Form 1 as a trust, once I have a gun trust, or am I stuck with passing it through as an individual? I would like others in my family to be able to use this for range and home defense. I also would like to pass it to my family when I pass.

 

[dogtown tom]

On a whim, upon waking up in the middle of the night, I purchased an SP-5, which is purely a pistol without any stock/brace. I didn’t realize that braces are, at least for now, not generally allowed.

Not true.
There is currently a nationwide injunction on implementation of that prohibition....Brito vs ATF

So, I recognize that I should get this firearm on Form 1 to convert it into an SBR and add a stock.

You apply either as an individual or as a trust/LLC/corp. Once approved you go buy the shoulder stock.

So, I personally purchased and this coming week, will pickup and go through NICS as an individual.

It's the only way to go through NICS.

Will the ATF allow me to convert this to an SBR on Form 1 as a trust, once I have a gun trust, or am I stuck with passing it through as an individual?

You determine how you apply for your tax stamp. Again you choose whether your Form 1 is for a trust or as an individual.

I would like others in my family to be able to use this for range and home defense.

Then you need to complete your Form 1 as a trust. If submitted as an individual, you would need to be there anytime others are shooting it. With a trust you can have RP's take possession and use the firearm when you are not present.

I also would like to pass it to my family when I pass.

If you die, the executor of your estate can submit a tax free Form 5 to your heir(s).
If you used a trust, the trust will determine how the RP's maintain possession. A Form 5 is not required.

 

[Gary H]

Wow, very clear responses. That clears everything up. Thanks

 

[KristopheCraig]

If you've personally purchased a pistol carbine (a firearm originally designed to be fired with one hand and having a short barrel), you may legally possess it as a pistol under federal law. This typically means it would have been sold without a stock attached, and perhaps with a pistol brace instead. You can legally register the SBR under a trust, even if the trust was established after you personally purchased the pistol carbine. Trusts are commonly used for NFA (National Firearms Act) items like SBRs, suppressors, and machine guns because they allow for multiple people to possess and use the items without the need for individual registrations.

 

[dogtown tom]

If you've personally purchased a pistol carbine (a firearm originally designed to be fired with one hand and having a short barrel)

Where did you get that definition? Certainly not from federal law or ATF regulations.
ATF has definitions for all sorts of firearms but not "pistol carbine".

 

[GHinNH]

I have a NFA Trust and would simply add it to that, beneficiaries are already listed as a primary and secondary.

 

[Craig_AR]

Moderator Frank Ettin has the correct, complete, answer, above. One thought I had, do you want everyone who is co-trustee or successor trustee on your existing trust to take possession as a trustee for your NFA items?
If you decide to put your NFA items into trust, the specific trustees seems a critical decision.