Muzzleloader for Home Defense

[Remington1911]

Personally I think you could do worse then a black powder revolver. Another plus is in many places a black powder revolver is not a firearm. So that may come into play as well. Then we can talk cartridge conversions....does that convert it into a "firearm".

As to the story, who knows. I sure don't trust a single thing the media says anymore....just because the house is in rough shape does not mean a darn thing.

 

[WestKentucky]

No pictures of the muzzle loader yet?

I hope they allow him to clean it before they confiscate it as evidence.

It would be no worse than what I did with my TC Hawken .45 which has apparently been dirty for about 8 years and I only thought I had cleaned it. Still shot a decent a group this deer season when I put it on paper though. Still needs cleaned too…

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Wow, you are the bayonet man. !!! For sure, that's quite a line up. But my question is, are they usually too tight, or too loose? Or both? if so...what is most common?

 

[StrawHat]

Another plus is in many places a black powder revolver is not a firearm. So that may come into play as well. Then we can talk cartridge conversions....does that convert it into a "firearm".

The myth that will not die! Go ahead, use a cap and ball. If the prosecutor, coroner or LE decides it is a bad shoot, guess how it will be described. Sorry, it is only a non-firearm until you use it as a firearm.

Kevin

 

[Ugly Sauce]

The myth that will not die! Go ahead, use a cap and ball. If the prosecutor, coroner or LE decides it is a bad shoot, guess how it will be described. Sorry, it is only a non-firearm until you use it as a firearm.

Kevin

Well the thing is, it depends more on what is "deadly force" and "reasonable" force, etc., not so much how firearms are categorized. Indeed, a baseball bat or any other non-firearm can get you in just as much trouble. Or more. Using a knife for self defense can instantly turn you into the bad-guy, and your attacker into the victim.

 

[AlexanderA]

Wow, you are the bayonet man. !!! For sure, that's quite a line up. But my question is, are they usually too tight, or too loose? Or both? if so...what is most common?

That's a complicated question. Let's just take, as an example, the 5 CW muskets at the right of my picture, posted earlier. They're all either Miroku, Colt, Euroarms, or Pedersoli. These are closest to originals. (I excluded the Armi Sport M1861 because it has a significantly heavier barrel.) All the reproduction bayonets that I tried had a sloppy fit. (Maybe they would have worked on Armi Sports; I don't know.) The bayonets that you see in the picture are all originals. They had a much closer fit. But even then, I had to swap the 5 bayonets around among the guns, until I got the optimum fit. So the key is selective fitting combined with minor sanding of the inside of the sockets. And, the back of the socket is supposed to butt up against the metal stock tip. Of the 5 guns, only 2 (the ones furthest to the right in the picture) actually do so. The others have a greater or lesser gap there.

 

[Remington1911]

The myth that will not die! Go ahead, use a cap and ball. If the prosecutor, coroner or LE decides it is a bad shoot, guess how it will be described. Sorry, it is only a non-firearm until you use it as a firearm.

Kevin

What "myth", that a black powder gun is not a firearm in some states. Sorry that is not a myth, and that is all that I said. Reading comprehension is not your strong point is it.

 

[hawg]

The myth that will not die! Go ahead, use a cap and ball. If the prosecutor, coroner or LE decides it is a bad shoot, guess how it will be described. Sorry, it is only a non-firearm until you use it as a firearm.

Kevin

A bp weapon is definitely a firearm in MS.

 

[woodnbow]

A bp weapon is definitely a firearm in MS.

Some places allow felons to own and use them but anyone in that situation has to know that if they use it in self defense they are going to receive extra scrutiny. Right, wrong, or indifferent, it’s just how it is.
And @Remington1911 the use of a conversion cylinder absolutely creates a firearm in the eyes of the Feds. Felons, with rare exceptions, cannot do this.

 

[AlexanderA]

the use of a conversion cylinder absolutely creates a firearm in the eyes of the Feds. Felons, with rare exceptions, cannot do this.

Yes, it's illegal for a felon to assemble a firearm out of non-firearm components. But there's no enforcement mechanism and a felon, physically, can do this. After all, he's a lawbreaker by definition.

 

[hawg]

Some places allow felons to own and use them

A felon can't own or be in possession of one in MS. They can't even hunt with a bp firearm.

 

[GEM]

Depends on your state - you can buy a BP gun here without a permit. But if you have all the components to load it up - you need a permit. If you did load it - it certainly is a 'firearm'.

 

[hawg]

Depends on your state - you can buy a BP gun here without a permit. But if you have all the components to load it up - you need a permit. If you did load it - it certainly is a 'firearm'.

A felon can buy one here but get caught with it loaded or unloaded and it won't go well.

 

[StrawHat]

A felon can buy one here but get caught with it loaded or unloaded and it won't go well.

A very simple concept, except some are too ignorant to comprehend.

Kevin

 

[Remington1911]

It just shows how stupid gun laws are. Do you need to fill out a 4473 for the conversion cyl. Don't think so, at least not in MO.

Here you could have each item mailed to your house, no checks at all. And before anyone gets all worried about that, when is the last time you read about a crime with a 1858 Remington, or any of their cousins. It does not happen very often at all. It is far more inexpensive and more easy to just get one from one of your buddies if you are a bad guy. That is the way it works.

I have worked at a cop shop in MO for almost 20 years, I can't think of a single shooting with black powder. It is not the top choice of the people that do bad things.

 

[.38 Special]

I still cannot find any further information about the gun used.

I did come across a site indicating that felons in Vermont apparently are allowed to posses muzzleloaders, at least under certain circumstances. https://thegunzone.com/can-a-felon-hunt-with-a-muzzleloader-in-vermont/

(I'm honestly not quite sure why @Remington1911 is taking heat for his post. We all know that muzzleloaders are generally not treated the same as cartridge guns, in the eyes of the law.)

 

[Ugly Sauce]

A felon can't own or be in possession of one in MS. They can't even hunt with a bp firearm.

Same as Washington State. A felon can bow hunt, and as mentioned before, archery season here racks up the most game violations, more than BP and Modern season combined. Anyhow, the bottom line, as far as prosecutors, courts, judges and juries are concerned, is whether "deadly force" was used "reasonably" or "unreasonably". That's the criteria if it be a BP revolver, whiz-bang semi-auto, baseball bat, or your car. I felon could be charged with possession of a firearm in ADDITION to murder, manslaughter, etc., or be found not guilty, but still be charged with possession, and do some time for that. Probably only a five year beef at most. Or the prosecutor could drop the possession charge if he thought he had an air tight murder case. What is used to murder, does not increase the murder of the murder charge, be you a felon or goodie two shoes. It is a separate charge. Most often a felon in possession of a firearm charge would be plea-bargained away, if there was a bigger fish to fry.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Impressive display AlexanderA.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

That's a complicated question. Let's just take, as an example, the 5 CW muskets at the right of my picture, posted earlier. They're all either Miroku, Colt, Euroarms, or Pedersoli. These are closest to originals. (I excluded the Armi Sport M1861 because it has a significantly heavier barrel.) All the reproduction bayonets that I tried had a sloppy fit. (Maybe they would have worked on Armi Sports; I don't know.) The bayonets that you see in the picture are all originals. They had a much closer fit. But even then, I had to swap the 5 bayonets around among the guns, until I got the optimum fit. So the key is selective fitting combined with minor sanding of the inside of the sockets. And, the back of the socket is supposed to butt up against the metal stock tip. Of the 5 guns, only 2 (the ones furthest to the right in the picture) actually do so. The others have a greater or lesser gap there.

Well thank you, I think I'll just get one from the site you mentioned, and take my chances. After the wife forgets the money I just spent on motorcycle parts and another Cold Steel Zulu spear head. One way or another, being a good shade-tree mechanic, I'm pretty sure I can make it fit. As it's a tapered barrel, I'm pretty sure the muzzle on my "Ranger Carbine" is much thicker than a full length Brown Bess. Too tight should be the easiest to deal with.

 

[woodnbow]

It just shows how stupid gun laws are. Do you need to fill out a 4473 for the conversion cyl. Don't think so, at least not in MO.

Here you could have each item mailed to your house, no checks at all. And before anyone gets all worried about that, when is the last time you read about a crime with a 1858 Remington, or any of their cousins. It does not happen very often at all. It is far more inexpensive and more easy to just get one from one of your buddies if you are a bad guy. That is the way it works.

I have worked at a cop shop in MO for almost 20 years, I can't think of a single shooting with black powder. It is not the top choice of the people that do bad things.

Stupid? Oh yeah… I only know of the one shooting with a Remington replica and after jury deliberations it was ruled as a justified shooting and homicide. If bad people want guns a little thing like a background check and a form 4473 isn’t gonna stop them. Hell, the Presidents own son broke that law in front of God and everyone else and they are struggling to find a way to sweep THAT under the rug.

People in America are still able to legally build a firearm out of copper pipe or vehicle antennas (or whatever) no law says you can’t. Although plenty of people are thinking hard into the wee hours of the morning about ways to make it illegal…

 

[Remington1911]

Stupid? Oh yeah… I only know of the one shooting with a Remington replica and after jury deliberations it was ruled as a justified shooting and homicide. If bad people want guns a little thing like a background check and a form 4473 isn’t gonna stop them. Hell, the Presidents own son broke that law in front of God and everyone else and they are struggling to find a way to sweep THAT under the rug.

People in America are still able to legally build a firearm out of copper pipe or vehicle antennas (or whatever) no law says you can’t. Although plenty of people are thinking hard into the wee hours of the morning about ways to make it illegal…

Don't forget about bragging about it in his own book. And yet nothing happens to him.....but that is different from out discussion.

I remember reading about a BP shooting and it was something along those lines, a home was broke into and the guy shot him with a BP revolver, I wonder if it is the same story.

 

[woodnbow]

Don't forget about bragging about it in his own book. And yet nothing happens to him.....but that is different from out discussion.

I remember reading about a BP shooting and it was something along those lines, a home was broke into and the guy shot him with a BP revolver, I wonder if it is the same story.

Nope. This woman had been beaten by her boyfriend one too many times. She grabbed the closest gun which happened to be a Remington 44.

 

[Remington1911]

Nope. This woman had been beaten by her boyfriend one too many times. She grabbed the closest gun which happened to be a Remington 44.

Means we have at least two where BP was used in defense. Sounds like those two examples should put that argument to bed.

 

[AlexanderA]

Means we have at least two where BP was used in defense. Sounds like those two examples should put that argument to bed.

What's the argument? You have a continuum of weapons: the latest and greatest semiautomatic guns, then older guns including muzzleloaders, then knives and axes. When in extremis, you pick the most effective thing that's immediately available. This shouldn't be a difficult question.

 

[Remington1911]

What's the argument? You have a continuum of weapons: the latest and greatest semiautomatic guns, then older guns including muzzleloaders, then knives and axes. When in extremis, you pick the most effective thing that's immediately available. This shouldn't be a difficult question.

If they are good for home defense