muzzleloaders and self reliance

[jimrbto]

Busyhands ! ! Continue to march.
I made my first batch of BP when I was 14, under the watchful eye of an old "hillbilly", and at 75 I still make it today. Don't make as much cause I don't shoot or hunt as much as I used to- - cant see very well and legs tend to want to take it easy.
This old gent taught me to make LARGE batches of the three ingredients separately and store them separately in airtight jars. I now use vacuum sealed jars. I have two ball mills, one for rough work i.e. grinding everything fine and another with a pumpkin shaped bowl that sits at an incline and is OPEN top for making the BP. My batches are usually only 100-200grams. With pre-ground components the finished product takes very little time to finish. Steel balls in the roughing mill and large lead balls in the BP mill. I grind the BP with a little alcohol mixed with water, seems to carry the salt peter into the charcoal better. I screen my finished product the same as you.
The BP mill is in a sandbagged little area away from the house on a long cord with a switch at this end, being open topped should it decide to go WHOOSH that is all it is going to do because it is not confined. Has never happened yet, and I never heard of anyone else having a problem with BP going BOOM when it was not supposed to.
My powder is not as dense as Swiss but it is just as hot, I check each batch for weight and measure by loads accordingly. (pretty much always the same)
Best charcoal to use is made from Alder or Willow, I prefer Alder.
Urine contains potassium nitrate and a long time ago there was a "Fox Fire" book on making BP that had a lot to say about how to make your own from soil from cattle stalls etc.

Take care
Jim

 

[Cosmoline]

Muzzleloaders tend to be more self-reliant folks in general I find. Not sure what it is, but there seems to be a link. OP--you should check out "Backwoodsman" magazine.

There will always be warnings from Nervous Nellies who never tried it themselves.

Everyone should be a little nervous about making powder.

 

[kBob]

I think you should plan to carry that flintlock while checking the traps and trot lines that have some hope of actually feeding you in a situation requiring you to live off the land.

Shouldn't need a whole lot of powder for that.

Rather than learning how to make BP put the effort into learning how to trap and fish.

For Firearms and self reliance look up "Survival Guns" by Mel Tappan and read his section on BP guns.....it is very short, that section.

BP guns ARE fun and beat no guns for most folks and that seems to be your situation as far as guns go, but do look into other options.

Did you know that a six gallon seal able bucket with three two liter bottles full of your choice of beans, a bottle of your favorite multivitamins and the rest filled up with rice can feed you for about 21 days? Nine such buckets can get you to six months. Don't have to fire a shot or even check traps or lines for that mater.

Might give you time to start a garden and I have yet to have to shoot a turnip, squash, nor 'tater, though some cabbages once gave me a hard time, but I beheaded them with an old Bowie I use for yard work sometime without wasting powder nor ball.

Just a thought.

You might want to check out the Church Of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints, the Mormons, in your area as one of their tenents is preparedness and they are encouraged to do food storage and gardening and such. You might fit in better than you think.

-kBob

 

[Busyhands94]

funny you should mention that, i actually fish and own a garden! i haven't tried trapping yet but i do know how to set snares, traps, and different things like that. I'm not saying i learned how to do that from watching survival TV shows, i actually have gone out and practiced that so that i can get good at it! i figure knowing how to make my own powder and shot will not only save me money if i don't wanna drop cash on the stuff, but if i ever need to i know how to. and knowing how to do it right is better than wasting time and effort not knowing how to do it and having to pull a ball from your rifle. i figure, it gives me practice so when i go to collage (i am 17, and i plan on going) i can still shoot, hunt, and not have to worry about spending money on that, if i wanna shoot bad enough (and i know i will, I'm hooked) then i feel a bit reassured that i can make my own powder, bullets, balls, patches, lube, and flints. as an avid BP nut i feel like i have a backup!

man, i didn't know about that bucket trick. i will have to remember that! i like that it's one convenient package, i could just stick a couple of those in a safe place and be set!

Sincerely, Levi

 

[4v50 Gary]

BTW, for anyone serious about primitive living, check out The Book of Buckskinning. There's several volumes but they're all excellent. So are the Foxfire series. I'm going to try some of it when I get out of California. Beaver's gonna shine a'gin!

Concerning of manufacture of blackpowder, that used to be a cottage industry which arose at the outbreak of the Revolution. Newpapers printed instructions and people gathered salt-peter from their necessaries. The quality of the home made powder varied from batch to batch. Our powder supply was improved when the French sent powder. But until they did, colonists made it.

 

[Pete D.]

set up

Jimrbto: That ball mill set up that you describe is very similar to what i have used when I have made BP.
Pete

Busyhands - like I said, if it didn't work for you, you'd not be doing it. There are two ways (at least) to make BP - one is the ball mill method and the other - the precipitation or CIA method, which involves alcohol and goes beyond simple mixing.
Consider this about methods - companies like Swiss and Goex are making BP commercially. They want a profit. If there was an easier, cheaper way to make high quality BP, they would use it. They don't. They mix and mill - all by remote control on a large scale.
I will try your method.....just to see. The stale urine business - what is "stale" urine and how much is used for - let's say - four ounces.
Pete

 

[Busyhands94]

i usually use just enough to wet it, it's kinda nasty but it seems to work for me. for mine i use:
100 parts KNO3
20 parts charcoal
13 parts sulfur

i make my charcoal out of softwood, i just stick it in an old pot and put it on the BBQ and cook it until the smoke doesn't come out. then, i use an old electric coffee grinder to mill it to smaller size, and then finally a rock tumbler with some lead in it to powder the charcoal finely. remember, you might need to experiment with what works best for you with your given ingredients. after i mill the ingredients together i like to add the stale urine, so that it is kinda like dough. then, i push it through a mesh screen to make it into the proper sized particles. then what i like to do is lay it on a large piece of cardboard box in the sun to let it dry. then, just use the flexibility of the cardboard to your advantage, you can bend it to collect your powder in a container.

be safe!
~Levi

 

[crazyjennyblack]

@ 4v50Gary - You wouldn't happen to have any references to those Revolution-era instructions, would you? I'd like to see some sort of image or copy of that - sounds like a cool piece of history!

 

[Busyhands94]

that would be really interesting, i have always wondered how they did it in the olden days!

 

[Pete D.]

BP

. after i mill the ingredients together i like to add the stale urine, so that it is kinda like dough. then, i push it through a mesh screen to make it into

After you mill the ingredients together? I was under the impression that you simply mixed them and did not use a mill. That rock tumbler is a mill. Do you mix the ingredients in that?
If so, then we are talking about the same thing.
Pete

 

[Busyhands94]

yes i use the rock tumbler to mill my powder. i love the fact that i can get one at a garage sale for ridiculously cheap, usually only a couple bucks!

 

[ofitg]

yes i use the rock tumbler to mill my powder. i love the fact that i can get one at a garage sale for ridiculously cheap, usually only a couple bucks!

If you are milling the potassium nitrate together with the charcoal & sulfur, that does sound a little risky. I hope your tumbler/ball mill is outdoors, connected to a long extension cord.

As long as you are mixing wet anyway, there may not be any reason to mill the potassium nitrate at all. Very hot water (close to boiling) will dissolve twice its weight of potassium nitrate. You could mix this solution with the sulfur/charcoal dust - as the water cools the potassium nitrate will precipitate onto the sulfur/charcoal dust, incorporating it more thoroughly than mechanical milling would.

 

[Mike1234567]

I've been following this thread out of curiousity and I know nothing about making black powder. I do have a question though. It seems logical to me to mix both the wet and dry components together (extra wet) and use large steel ball bearings to mix (mill?) the components in a tumbler. To me, it just seems like the easiest and most effective way. I'd be too chicken to use a tumbler with dry components even with lead balls.

 

[[email protected]]

Nobody has said anything about using kitchen matches to fire your percussion
guns. Don't any of you know about this? I used it many years ago when I could not afford caps, it works GREAT!. You can also use them to re-load
modern primers, which I have done also. One day I am going to have to write
a book on all this stuff.

 

[crazyjennyblack]

@ Mike1234567 -

Those of you who know may correct me, but wouldn't using steel balls increase the likelihood of a spark? Seems riskier to me than using lead balls.

What do they use in ball mills, anyway?

 

[Mike1234567]

@ Mike1234567 -

Those of you who know may correct me, but wouldn't using steel balls increase the likelihood of a spark?

Of course... if used with dry mix but I suggested using them in wet medium.

 

[ofitg]

Nobody has said anything about using kitchen matches to fire your percussion
guns. Don't any of you know about this? I used it many years ago when I could not afford caps, it works GREAT!. You can also use them to re-load
modern primers, which I have done also. One day I am going to have to write
a book on all this stuff.

kwhi43, I can vouch for that. I have used a razor blade to cleave the ignitor tips off "strike anywhere" kitchen matches, and then glued those tips into empty Tap-O-Cap hulls with droplets of my wife's nail polish. Worked just fine!

Twenty years ago those "strike anywhere" kitchen matches were sold most everywhere, but now they're getting hard to find (around here, at least).

 

[[email protected]]

You can still buy them at my local Ace Hardware store. Just cut them off as
you say and stick them right on the nipple. You don't even have to use a
Tap-O-Cap. A little beeswax or candle wax will do.

 

[Pete D.]

tumble

When I have milled BP, I have used ceramic elements. Various sized pieces cut from what appears to be ceramic rod. I put the mill out in the woods at the end of of 150 feet of power cord. Some people use lead balls ; some use bearings.
I am unsure that boiling Potassium Nitrate and adding it to sulfur and charcoal will result in total incorporation of all three of the ingredients; It might do a good job combining the KNO3 with the other two but that is only part of the job.
Milling is how the large makers do it.
Pete

 

[Jaymo]

+1 on Backwoodsman magazine and the Foxfire books. You'd love them, Levi.
Especially Foxfire 5. It has the big chapters on ironmaking, blacksmithing, building flintlocks, and making black powder.
Backwoodsman magazing is one of my favorites. Right up there with Muzzleloader, Home Shop Machinist, and Machinist's Workshop.

IF you can find it, pick up a copy of Bushcraft, by Richard Greaves. It is a fantastic wilderness survival book, covering about all facets of the subject.
I can't recommend it highly enough. I've had a copy since 1982, when a buddy of mine brought his copy to 6th grade recess, and I was enthralled. Guess what I asked for for my birthday(and received)?

How long does it take for urine to become stale? I know if you keep it too long, it smells like pure ammonia. I made a small batch once, about 100 grains weight, and it burned slower than Goex.

I'd love to know what experiences people here have had with white powder/60% saltpeter-40% white sugar.

 

[arcticap]

Rachen posted on TFL about making a sulfur free powder which he recently referred to as "Coconut powder".

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=450111&highlight=homemade

 

[Busyhands94]

i also forgot to address how fun it is knowing you can make your own flints. i I'm not going to pay for rocks! that's not the kind of man i am! some like to buy flint and some like to make it. I am the kind of guy who likes making his own. i love the fact that when i am out fishing i can go take a look over by the rocks to find my flint. i love it when i find a big hunk of it! it's like finding a brick of percussion caps while your walking through the woods. i like it!

 

[kBob]

You just hit on one reason a Florida Boy doesn't see much advantage in going flintlock for lower case survivalism. You will spend a while searchinf for flint here. I supose one can use blue chirt after it is chiped from a limestone nodule that has started to turn, but after your work it may very well shatter at first use or just not be hard and sharp enough dispite te effort.

The way I got shooting time my last two years of college was Joining Army ROTC and signing the contract. ( As a prior Enlisted man I already had credit for the first two years)I joined the ROTC sponsored rifle team and shot .22 match rifles two to three times a week for those two school years and shot everything from the M-16A1 to the M-102 105mm Howitzer during the summer in between. I used some of my summer camp money to buy a Colt conversion unit for my previously owned Colt .45 auto and sometimes got to shoot it with Uncle Sam's rim-fire ammo after letting the unit use it for training.

Admitedly the only Black powder I shot during that time was the initiator pellets in the M72A3 LAW, the 81 mm Mortar, and 105mm Howitzer at camp though.

I also had a decent paying job immediately upon graduation that allowed me to buy interesting guns on both sides of the Atlantic.

ROTC used to offer a four year scholarship to those that could make the grade and it included a monthly stipend all four years.

Just a thought.....and you don't have to blow yourself up.....though someone else might do it for you.

-kBob