MY AR is Having ALOT of trouble! --HELP Please!--
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Bartholomew Roberts
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In the early days of M16 development, they had similar problems with blocked gas tubes causing malfunctions. They determined that using over a certain percentage of calcium carbonate in the powder was a contributing factor and that as long as you used less than that, a clogged gas tube almost never happened.
Like Jeremy2171, I've never seen a firsthand case of a clogged gas tube that was caused by fouling instead of by someone sticking something into the gas tube to clean it out; but I've read the historical stuff from The Gun Zone 5.56x45mm Timeline and seen the occasional post like savage23, so I guess it does occasionally still happen.
My guess is that the few blockages I've read about are probably associated with using foreign 5.56mm not intended to be used in an AR originally and probably have something to do with the type of propellant used in that ammo.
Like Jeremy2171, I've never seen a firsthand case of a clogged gas tube that was caused by fouling instead of by someone sticking something into the gas tube to clean it out; but I've read the historical stuff from The Gun Zone 5.56x45mm Timeline and seen the occasional post like savage23, so I guess it does occasionally still happen.
My guess is that the few blockages I've read about are probably associated with using foreign 5.56mm not intended to be used in an AR originally and probably have something to do with the type of propellant used in that ammo.
MoDerN_WarRioR
Member
I see what you are saying Savage about the carbon built up around the inlet hole. I will probably try to knock off some of that carbon. I was once told, actually on here (dont remember the post) that there is like 2000 PSI of burning hot gas blowing through that gas tube and that there isn't much that you can scrape off if it cant blow it off. So if thousands of lbs of gas cant blow it off, dont worry about it. That's what i have understood from that post.
So with that said i have never cleaned my gas tube because i never found it to be an issue. BUT while its off, i will probably wire brush the crap out of the hole just to be safe. If it becomes too big of a deal, ill just replace the gas tube but im pretty sure its all good.
Thanks!
--Chris
So with that said i have never cleaned my gas tube because i never found it to be an issue. BUT while its off, i will probably wire brush the crap out of the hole just to be safe. If it becomes too big of a deal, ill just replace the gas tube but im pretty sure its all good.
Thanks!
--Chris
I was joking....
MoDerN_WarRioR
Member
Its ok CA2005. Im not a hater on here. 
If some one was actually to get upset for something that really meant nothing (just an opinion) then, someone needs to chill out and get out of the house for a bit. I thought it was funny lol And i LOVE AR's!
Im still waiting for my parts to come!! COME ON USPS!!! HURRRY!!!
--Chris
If some one was actually to get upset for something that really meant nothing (just an opinion) then, someone needs to chill out and get out of the house for a bit. I thought it was funny lol And i LOVE AR's! Im still waiting for my parts to come!! COME ON USPS!!! HURRRY!!!
--Chris
Ryder
Member
That's a lot of stuff to go through but a good read. I'll keep these things in mind...
I bought a (like new) DPMS off a guy and the first time I took it shooting it wouldn't cycle. My Bushy has never missed a beat so I don't know jack about smithing them, I just shoot em (since 1973).
After several shots with constant mis-feeds from the DPMS I switched out the magazine. I have a half dozen different kinds of magazines. Emptied that mag without a problem. Turns out that of the half dozen different mags I own only 2 types will work, and they work real good. The other 4 types are reserved for the Bushy which just does not care about that sort of thing.
I bought a (like new) DPMS off a guy and the first time I took it shooting it wouldn't cycle. My Bushy has never missed a beat so I don't know jack about smithing them, I just shoot em (since 1973).
After several shots with constant mis-feeds from the DPMS I switched out the magazine. I have a half dozen different kinds of magazines. Emptied that mag without a problem. Turns out that of the half dozen different mags I own only 2 types will work, and they work real good. The other 4 types are reserved for the Bushy which just does not care about that sort of thing.
Glad to hear it, I like AR's too (eventhough I bust on them from time to time). They certainly are a handy rifle. Hope everything works out well...sounds like you're on the right track.Its ok CA2005. Im not a hater on here.
Im still waiting for my parts to come!! COME ON USPS!!! HURRRY!!!
--Chris
sarduy
Member
just spay it with powder blast and or WD-40.... and shoot the gun... you'll see how fast it get clean.
Modern-Warior-sometimes i do get out of the house!LOL Yesterday for example. Me& friend went shootin - lets see- we had my bushy 200rds after cleaning gas tube- no hiccups-his colt ar15-mauser98-browning 1919mg. All in all pretty good day!!
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
Yes. The pressure at the gas port is around 12,000-15,000psi on the rifle and 23,000-30,000psi on the carbine. I still recommend not sticking things inside the gas tube as a general maintenance policy as partial obstruction of the gas tube due to fouling from ammunition is incredibly rare in my experience.
Like I said, I've seen more problems caused by foreign debris used to "clean" the gas tube than I have from a "dirty" gas tube. Even if I was shooting a lot of foreign ammo known to cause problems, I'd probably just replace the $8 gas tube periodically rather than try and scrub off whatever it was that was standing up to that kind of gas pressure.
Jeremy2171
Member
I had a drop in .22 conversion in one of mine and shot it for years as ".22 only" (lead shavings filling up the gas tube)..finally took it out with 5.56 ammo and 1st round short stroked, 2nd same thing, 3rd round cycled fine...put another mag or two through it then put the .22 kit back in it...
The gas tube is pretty maintenance free.... JMHO..
The gas tube is pretty maintenance free.... JMHO..
Thanks...no trouble. I figured you were joking as well. That's the only bad thing about the internet, no non verbals.
MoDerN_WarRioR
Member
This sounds like a wonderful WONDERFUL Day of shooting! Alot better than dealing with work all day...
Still waiting for my parts!! 7 days now! COME ON USSSPPSSSS!!!! I was Hoping to get this stuff installed on my gun by Friday and out shooting but, gotta love Snail Mail! (I should have upgraded the shipping LoL)
--Chris
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
I understand you just fine. I'm just saying that in 20 years of working on and playing with AR15s, I've never seen the gas tube become partially obstructed from ammunition fouling firsthand. None of the many people I shoot with has ever had it happen to them either. In the 10+ years I've been reading forums like AR15.com, TFL, and THR, I've seen it reported a handful of times (less than 10). I've had gas tubes go at least 10,000 rounds, so I've got some basis for my experience. In the same period of time, I've seen several rifles stop working with broken q-tips, pieces of pipe cleaner, and even pieces of patches jammed in the gas tube.
So for that reason, I don't clean my own gas tubes - EVER. Not even "squirt CLP in them." Nothing. So far, this is working just fine for me so that is what I plan to continue doing. That's what I am going to recommend to others if they ask me. What is so hard to understand about that?
So Bart, just because in your 20yrs of playing with ar's you've never seen it happen-I guess that means it can't happen right? Give me a break! If modern warior puts his new parts on & the weapon still doesn't work are you going to tell him to sell the weapon?I hope what he does fixes it-if not i guess there's still one thing left to do huh????
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
savage23 said:
I never said that it cannot happen - in fact, in one of my first comments on this topic, I pointed out that it was a recurring problem with early M16s, pointed out the source that discussed it and the cause of the problem.
I then explained that because of propellant changes in modern ammo, I've never seen it happen personally and don't know anyone who has on a personal basis. I then explained that I don't clean my own gas tubes and don't recommend it to anyone else. On the one-in-a-million chance that the gas tube does become obstructed (either partially or otherwise), it is probably easier to replace the $8 gas tube than it is to try and clean it.
Now that makes about the fourth time I've said the same damn thing to you. If you don't understand it this time around, I'm not going to try a fifth time. Maybe you should stick to reading what I wrote instead of imagining what you think I'm saying and we'll have less miscommunication?
Jeremy2171
Member
Did you ream the gas port and then test fire it BEFORE replacing the tube...or did you replace it all at once?? The reason I say that is "maybe" your tube was fine....and the port blockage was the problem.
I have 20+ years working on ARs and have the same results as Bart... my personal M4 had 10,000+ rounds and was running fine.... just saying....
MoDerN_WarRioR
Member
Alright guys... Lets get back on track here. Just for the record, i didn't feel it was necessary to clean or ream out the gas tube hole. If i have more problems AFTER i install the new parts (WHICH I FINALLY GOT IN!) i might look into getting a new Gas tube. Kind of silly to me to try and salvage a tube that costs 6-10 bucks. Much rather replace it, but i dont believe i have a problem in this area.
OK so with that said! YES i got my parts in and i have installed them on my AR!
- The new one piece gas ring is pretty awesome for those who have never used one. It is pretty difficult to get it on the bolt but it seems like its going to work like a charm! There are no more little holes or gaps that you have to "try" to keep from lining up. AND i performed the gas ring/bolt test (which my old rings FAILED) And the New rings held the Carrier up by them selves just fine!! Very exciting!
- Now, the gas block. Its a YHM single rail clamp on gas block. This feels ALOT more solid and a lot more tighter fit around the barrel than the Stock Gas Block. So i think this will cure alot of gas leaking problems im having with the block. It is SOLID as a freakin rock!! There is one little concern i do have though im hoping some one can help me with. I am posting pictures to help emphasise what im concerned about and I will explain...
Ok so my barrel has a section that the gas block mounts around that is a .750 diameter, then just forward of that section the barrel goes to a smaller diameter. Right where it goes smaller there is a little lip. NOW... My old gas block use to sit FLUSH with this little lip while it is backed All the way to the hand rail guard. ((See picture below))
Ok so now my NEW gas block, when it is pushed all the way back to the hand guard... there is about a 1/2 of a centimeter (or so) where it is exposing some of .750 section. It seems like the overall length of the new gas block might be shorter than the old gas block causing the slight difference. ((See pictures below))
Now my only concern with this is, is that the Gas hole on the new block will NOT be lined up completely with the gas hole on the barrel. Do you guys thing i should pull the gas block slightly forward to flush it up with that lip? (which will pull the block away from the hand guard) OR just leave it be and see if it leaks or restricts the gas flow, or works fine??
And just another side note to add... The gas key seems to be working fine with the gas tube in the position its in right now. If i pull that gas block forward, it will probably disconnect the gas key from the tube... That could be even more of a mess. What do ya all think??
Thanks!!!
--Chris
OK so with that said! YES i got my parts in and i have installed them on my AR!
- The new one piece gas ring is pretty awesome for those who have never used one. It is pretty difficult to get it on the bolt but it seems like its going to work like a charm! There are no more little holes or gaps that you have to "try" to keep from lining up. AND i performed the gas ring/bolt test (which my old rings FAILED) And the New rings held the Carrier up by them selves just fine!! Very exciting!
- Now, the gas block. Its a YHM single rail clamp on gas block. This feels ALOT more solid and a lot more tighter fit around the barrel than the Stock Gas Block. So i think this will cure alot of gas leaking problems im having with the block. It is SOLID as a freakin rock!! There is one little concern i do have though im hoping some one can help me with. I am posting pictures to help emphasise what im concerned about and I will explain...
Ok so my barrel has a section that the gas block mounts around that is a .750 diameter, then just forward of that section the barrel goes to a smaller diameter. Right where it goes smaller there is a little lip. NOW... My old gas block use to sit FLUSH with this little lip while it is backed All the way to the hand rail guard. ((See picture below))
Ok so now my NEW gas block, when it is pushed all the way back to the hand guard... there is about a 1/2 of a centimeter (or so) where it is exposing some of .750 section. It seems like the overall length of the new gas block might be shorter than the old gas block causing the slight difference. ((See pictures below))
Now my only concern with this is, is that the Gas hole on the new block will NOT be lined up completely with the gas hole on the barrel. Do you guys thing i should pull the gas block slightly forward to flush it up with that lip? (which will pull the block away from the hand guard) OR just leave it be and see if it leaks or restricts the gas flow, or works fine??
And just another side note to add... The gas key seems to be working fine with the gas tube in the position its in right now. If i pull that gas block forward, it will probably disconnect the gas key from the tube... That could be even more of a mess. What do ya all think??
Thanks!!!
--Chris
Jeremy2171
Member
You need to measure the location of the gas port in the barrel from the lip and then find the location of the hole in the block....center them as needed...I can't tell you whether it needs to be forward or back...YOU will need to check that!
The small amount of movement fore and aft won't affect the gas tube to gas key relationship...
Looks good!
The small amount of movement fore and aft won't affect the gas tube to gas key relationship...
Looks good!
Quentin
Member
Good luck, Chris! Looks like you're almost have your solution in place.
MoDerN_WarRioR
Member
Thanks man!
OK so i measured the gas hole on the barrel and the gas hole on the block and lined everything all up so it should be good to go! It seems that it is still in the same spot it was before i took it back off so i think i would have been fine, but that eliminated the doubt i had.
FYI RED loctite is a B***H to remove After its set for over 12 hours!!
I hopefully will have some time today to go out shooting... maybe. I wanted to go yesterday but i didn't even install the new parts till last night. SO if i go, i will bring back a range report!!!
Thanks for everything!!
--Chris
OK so i measured the gas hole on the barrel and the gas hole on the block and lined everything all up so it should be good to go! It seems that it is still in the same spot it was before i took it back off so i think i would have been fine, but that eliminated the doubt i had.
FYI RED loctite is a B***H to remove After its set for over 12 hours!!
I hopefully will have some time today to go out shooting... maybe. I wanted to go yesterday but i didn't even install the new parts till last night. SO if i go, i will bring back a range report!!!
Thanks for everything!!
--Chris
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