My article - Will the terrorism watch list strip citizens of their 2A rights?

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My latest article as the Detroit Gun Rights Examiner is on a hearing today on how to strip people on the "Terrorism watch list" of their 2A rights.

This is a VERY bad idea for the reasons I outline in the article. It's not a "the sky is falling" article: They really, really want to do this. If you think this will be an effective anti-terror tactic, and you support this, you REALLY need to read the article and follow the links to the bill.

Will the terror watch list strip citizens of their Second Amendment rights?

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You could be placed on such a watch list for any reason at all. If over 1 million people are on the lists, I wouldn't be surprised if half the people on here and 100% of the people on www.whenshtf.com are on those lists. No legal recourse, that's the danger.
 
You won't even know until they decide to deny you...star chamber proceedings...the only recourse is for the states to stand up - and we see what happens when states stand up for thier citizens rights.
 
Regardless of your 2A rights, what about your 5th amendment rights?

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
 
Even if approved by Congress, these official enemies lists would be unconstututional under Article 1, Section 9 of the constitution as a "Bill of Attainder." You can't take away someone's rights by legislative fiat unless you convict them of some crime.
 
Like 1930's Germany it will be done all nice and legal. The US Supreme Court will declare the 2nd Amd. applies only to State Militas which Obamma just Federalized through Executive Order
 
This is scary how can you tell if your on the list?
Click to expand...

Not being able to get on a plane would be a clue.

And, if they get their way, getting "Denied" by a NICS check would be another way.

Short of that? No way to check I can tell.
 
Bet there are 300,000,000 names on the list in no time---minus 435 for congress---minus 100 for the senate--minus 2 for the Bamster and veep

How much ya wanna bet?
 
Close, but no Cigar.
Bama will be on the list because he was/is a community/political organizer.
They'll get to him when they hang ACORN.
 
merlinfire said:
This "list" will get torn down by an ACLU lawsuit soon enough. It won't last.
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Erm no, it's been about since October 2001 and the ACLU have had already had one lawsuit against it in 2004, and it's still around. You can challenge your addition through the courts system though as confirmed in 2008 by the 9th Circuit.

In Nov 2009 the FBI confirmed 1600 people a DAY are suggested for addition to this list for "reasonable suspicion". The No Fly List is only a subset of the Terrorist watch list, 9% of the terrorist watch list is the No Fly List so remember that all the inaccuracies and controversy's like Ted Kennedy and the 8 year old called Mike, well it only involved 9% of the proposed list to be used to prohibit firearm sales.

Interestingly in 2008 53 non-violent political activists (anti Death Penalty and Iraq War) were added by guess who... Maryland State Police yup not a Federal Government TLA but a police department. They included a Sports Journalist, Lawyer (and unsuccessful Congressman), two Nuns, and a writer who is coordinator for a anti-war organization and also their police liaison who happens to live in New York, and has only been in Maryland while traveling I-95 to DC (how very strange...).
 
You can challenge your addition through the courts system
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It's all okay with the courts, as long as you're forced to line a lawyer's pocket with money.
 
Oh, I caught yours. I was just piling on.:)

What's interesting is this: how do you KNOW? If I go down to Tommy's Tents and Tackle and try to buy a .30-30 and a deer tag, and I get denied by NICS, how do I know why? Do they TELL me that I'm a suspected terrorist at the sporting goods store? Somehow I doubt it. So how do I know WHAT to challenge?
 
I would not think NICS could deny you for being on a terrorist list. NICS proceeds or denies you based on convictions in a court of law or deemed incompetent or dishonorable discharges. In other words things that are actually documented. Being on a terrorist watch list is mere conjecture not fact.

Am I a terrorist myself when I believe it is a fair trade off to have a few terrorist attacks here and there so the American citizens can retain all of their rights all the time. If you keep restricting peoples rights all for the sake of fighting terrorism then pretty soon people are going to be left wondering just what we are fighting for. I know "acceptable loss of life" is a taboo subject in this day and age especially with the rise of the litigious CYA culture that America has been fostering but to be free means to constantly be having to defend it even if it is on our own turf. As they say, "Freedom, don't come free."
 
earl, that's what this is about. There is a bill being proposed that would add presence on the terrorist watch list, or perhaps the "no fly list", to the criteria for NICS denial. Lautenberg introduced it last year, and otherwise-relatively-sane Joe Lieberman is now pushing it hard.

That's the problem. This is a list that tells LE to keep an eye on certain individuals. There's no due process, no criminal conviction or even charge.
 
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earl, that's what this is about. There is a bill being proposed that would add presence on the terrorist watch list, or perhaps the "no fly list", to the criteria NICS denial. Lautenberg introduced it last year, and otherwise-relatively-sane Joe Lieberman is not pushing it hard.

That's the problem. This is a list that tells LE to keep an eye on certain individuals. There's no due process, no criminal conviction or even charge.
Click to expand...

Well then this is just Patriot Act expansion then. So the answer is a big YES. It will strip citizens of more of their second amendment rights.

If the watch list uses the NICS criteria to put people on the list then there will no doubt be people who dont deserve to be on there. I can jsut see them taking my name at random. Hmmmmm, Mr. ____ you will be delayed to be added to the list. You may be added in 3 business days yadda yadda

Not that this is the greatest analogy but I did just watch Star Wars Episodes 1-3 recently. Kind of makes me think.....
 
I thought the Terrorist Watch List was ordered by GWB in 2003 as part of his campaign to strip Americans of their civil rights. It does have well over a million names on it and it's said that a lot of people who aren't on it have had trouble because their name was similar.

Technically, use of the Terrorist Watch List to deny a firearms transaction should be unconstitutional because that use violates Due Process. This would be something the ACLU could probably take to the Supreme Court and win a favorable decision.
 
This would be something the ACLU could probably take to the Supreme Court
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Depends what side of the bed they woke up on...

On one hand, they make no bones about opposing individual firearms ownership as any sort of right. On the other, they might not want the due process erosion.
 
"His political beliefs are what?!
He protested what?!

That is it, put him on The List!"




Upset the wrong people, support a cause or freedoms someone doesn't like? Have certain political views?
You may be put on The List.


One only needs to reference the memo made public last year titled Rightwing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment" to see the type of things that could justify placement on The List.

Among the reasons to be suspicious of someone in the report included things like them being Christian, a veteran, against abortion, against illegal immigration, or against tougher gun laws.

Interestingly in 2008 53 non-violent political activists (anti Death Penalty and Iraq War) were added by guess who... Maryland State Police
Click to expand...
Local, and state additions to the list could make it grow even faster.

Anyone who believes passionately about anything or is a strong political activist is a "potential terrorist". Whether their beliefs are on the left or right. But especially if it involves something scary or dangerous like guns.
The founders themselves believed in what today qualifies as "terrorism", I mean they were even rebels who used force against a government, something classified as terrorism today.
They would all have had to be on the list as well. Even without that past they would go on to have statements like:

And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms.
Click to expand...

Put that man on The List! In fact it sounds like all of "this people" who "preserve the spirit of resistance" need to be put on the list. Sounds like a dangerous bunch of people.
 
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