My Daughter The Terrorist

[Keith]

Is a lighter a weapon?

I dropped my 19 year old daughter off at the Kodiak airport last Sunday. She's leaving to spend the winter in Ireland with friends. She has a job lined up with a pub in Cork, and hopes to take art classes if she can fight her way through the Irish bureaucracy...

On Friday I got a certified letter from the Aviation Security office in Anchorage. It's a "Letter of Investigation"... It seems that when her checked bags were passed through the International Screening process at the Anchorage Airport, they found a number of cigarette lighters contained therein. She has violated the "Federal Hazardous Materials Regulations, 49 Code of Federal Regulations"...

The letter tells us (her) that she has ten days to file "explanatory information reflecting extenuating or mitigating circumstances regarding these alleged violations".

In fact, she did have some lighters in her bag stamped "Kodiak, Alaska" with a little bear logo to give to Irish friends. And apparently, if she had carried them on board there would be no problem. But, if checked in they are a dangerous violation of national security...

It's a strange world we live in! It's too bad it's an issue of my daughters, because I can't really give them hell without the consequences falling to her. If they were MY lighters, I could call and write everyone involved explaining what total and complete morons they are. And if they pressed the issue I could then go the newspapers and make them look even worse. There's nothing more fun than giving a bureaucrat an ulcer. Stupid people should have their noses rubbed in their own stupidity.

As it is, I'll have to fight this politely (the daughter is not here to fight it on her own), and probably have to kiss a few butts that I'd rather kick.

Keith

 

[Kentucky Rifle]

Keith...

I didn't know that your checked bags were actually opened. If the bags were just x-rayed, how.... sorry man, I just don't get it. Little plastic lighters with a bear on them? Sometimes I have a difficult time with pure stupidity. This sounds like that.

Will

 

[morganm01]

Tell them your buddy who just moved to Australia put them in her bag and she didn't know about them.

 

[Moparmike]

What?!?!

She is a terrorist! Dont you know the damage she could do with the cuteness of those lighters? Think of the children man! They fall for the cute things! We have federal regulations against transporting CWMD's!




The stupid stuff that people come up with these days. They're lighters. I would have more problems with it in the cabin than in the suitcase.

Devil's Advocate: Anyone know the actual effects of depressurization on a lighter and the fire-fighting capabilities of the cargo deck of the average airliner? Maybe there is a reason afterall.

 

[Keith]

I just really wish they were MY bags! I would love to carry this as far as I can take it, personally insulting every single person involved and making them realize what low-life morons they really are. I'd play it to the media and make myself out to be a victim (which is true) and maybe, just maybe they'd practice a little common sense with the next person they target with their phoney bureaucratic jobs to make their empty lives seem important.

Do I seem angry?

I suspect the worst that could happen is I'd get a fine and be added to some list of people to hassle at airports. I don't care about stuff like that - I enjoy getting hassled and I can ruin somebodies day with the best of them.

Keith

 

[feedthehogs]

They will open checked bags randomly and rifle through your stuff.

They leave a nice little card indicating they have done so.

That means you can't lock your bags anymore or they will cut the lock off, or try as the case was with one of my wife's bags.

I used one of those little brass locks from a ruger box to lock the two zipper ends together. When picking up the bags at the airport I noticed the lock was missing. Thinking someone broke into the bag I complained to the airlines baggage. Upon opening the bag, there was the paper from TSA and the lock. They tried to cut the clasp in two places but couldn't get through. I guess they use dykes and not bolt cutters. They then cut the zipper ends off and ruined any chance of sealing the bag again.

They told me I was supposed to leave the bag open for inspection and would not replace the damaged bag.

Our government at work.

I bought a time share in a private jet charter and will never fly commercial again. Its also nice to be able to carry your gun with you on the plane!

More expensive, but I refuse to pay homage and support the state sponsored airlines anymore.

 

[Psssniper]

Well you'd be suprised what an "ex spek oops navel seel mall ninja" hiding in the wheel well of a 747 could do if he found those lighters in your daughters checked bags!!! You betcha, why he could probably shoot a hole in the fuselage and decompress the whole plane and when all the passengers had been sucked out into the airless void of 36,000 agl he then could take over the cockpit and crash the plane into something but not before parachuting out to go to his next mission..........
Tracking down people who LIST THEIR STATE when placing an ad on THR's for sale boards and then putting their names into the governments database!!
You betcha mister

 

[4v50 Gary]

When flying from Phoenix to Indianapolis, I was told that I had to carry my matches either on my person or in the carry-on and that it could not be among the check-in luggage. I think the TSA is an anal organization. Privitize them.

 

[Kentucky Rifle]

FeedTheHogs...

NetJets?? Not only carry your pistol but great aircraft maintenance too.

KR

 

[Morgan]

And they send you a letter, now? If they really thought it was a danger why didn't they just take the things?

Probably better send them an explanatory note, though, or they'll make your kid's life hell on return.

Agreed, morons.

 

[ceetee]

Devil's Advocate #2 checking in...

Most people haven't ever seen the trained gorillas the airlines employ as luggage handlers. They have genetically altered them so that they can do maximum damage to your checked baggage in a minimum amount of time, with a minimum amount of handling...

Seriously, though (and sincere apologies to the baggage handlers. They do a hard job, in crappy conditions; it's no wonder they want to get the stuff moved in a minimum amount of time so they can go back inside where it doesn't stink of jet fuel.)

But seriously, imagine if a couple of butane containers were cracked during handling allowing a slow leak, of if Grandpa's bowling ball shifted during rotation, smashing a half-dozen of them...releasing a nice cloud of fuel-air-explosive... add a random spark...

It's not as far-fecthed as it sounds. Something similar to this brought down a cargo jet leaving Miami Int'l Airport a few years ago. Came down right off the Palmetto Expressway...

 

[Keith]

Uh huh, but then why are they allowed in the cabin? You could get on board with a carry-on bag full of butane lighters and bowling balls and that would be fine...

You can check ammunition. You can check a box full of rattlesnakes. You can check a cannister of medical oxygen.

It's just bureaucratic stupidity. They need to find violations to justify their stupid jobs and so they WILL find violations! You can write regulations, but you can't force a bureaucrat to exercise common sense.

Keith

 

[Moparmike]

You can check ammunition. You can check a box full of rattlesnakes. You can check a cannister of medical oxygen.

Can I check a box containing a loose-rolling leaking bottle of medical O2, ammunition, butane lighters ready to be smashed by the bottle, magneseum fire-starter in a position for spark inducing, and just for fun and games, topped off with rattlesnakes?

I just want to see where the bureaucratic idiocy ends.

 

[geekWithA.45]

I dunno about you, but if I got a certified mail from the .gov informing me that my daughter was under investigation for anti terror violations,

It strikes me that consulting a lawyer is a grand idea.

 

[Crimper-D]

Butane lighters have exploded...

Often enough to attract the attention of various Federal and State regulatory agencies in the past. One model made by "Societe' de BIC" was bad enough to get several people singed and blasted. Massive recall worldwide, don't remember the dates, but enough data apparently got into someones database when the airline safety regs were being drawn up to get them on the 'list'.
Add that to the morons who do these baggage checks using that list as a reference, and it's easy to predict the outcome.:banghead:

 

[TarpleyG]

bought a time share in a private jet charter and will never fly commercial again. Its also nice to be able to carry your gun with you on the plane!

Feedthehogs, details please. Sounds interesting but never heard of this. May be something to check out.

GT

 

[dinosaur]

Crimper-D

It was around 78-79 I think. I can`t recall the details and I use a Zippo anyway. I don`t think you can carry lighter fluid at all though.:banghead:

 

[morganm01]

I think the reason for not wanting compressed gasses in the plane is the downing of the flight off New York a few years ago, it was due to charged oxygen bottles being shipped when they were supposed to be empty.

 

[280PLUS]

seems like an honest mistake,,,

why they gotta hassle her too, not enough to take them away and say "bad traveler, thats a no- no" ?

they got boxes upon boxes of stuff confiscated that other people shouldnta brought...



reminds me of the one where they took the little old lady's knitting needles away,,,

they were afraid she was going to knit an afghan...





she may need to invest in a tinfoil hat now that the gov't is on to her...

 

[DorGunR]

Is the cargo compartment pressureized?????
Are the cigarette lighters plastic?????
If the answer is no & yes respectivly then the lighters are filled at sea level......more or less.......just wondering what the pressure would be say....6 or 7 miles up????

Hey, I don't know......it's just a thought.

 

[madmike]

The pressure at that altitude shouldn't affect the integrity of the lighter. Nor should total vacuum, actually. It's POSSIBLE a valve may leak...but still, why did they let them aboard if it's a problem?

And as to defending yourself by mail...don't do it. Demand they file charges or drop it. Or they'll have you pegged as a "self-admitted terrorist" and kill your/her RKBA.

 

[EOD Guy]

The issue has absolutely nothing to do with the TSA or terroism, but with Dept of Transporation regulations on transportation of hazardous materials. The restriction against butane lighters in checked baggage has been in place for many years and is posted on most, if not all, airline web sites.

 

[George Hill]

Our world is becoming a very stupid place.
:banghead:

 

[Autolite]

Something doesn't make sense here ...

I got the impression from the initial post that the lighters were not permitted because they were a "hazardous material". This would imply that this is a safety thing, not a terrorist thing. I'm betting that the security people did not consider the lighters to be weapons, just HAZMAT. If your received a letter notifing you that they are playing the "terrorist" angle, then I am thinking that someone higher up decided to twist things around a bit. IIRC, lighters were banned from aircraft cargo holds long before 9-11. Maybe you could check the particular law that they are citing and find out when it came into effect ...

 

[LostOneToo]

Just goes to show that there really is not a limit to human stupidity and that no one nation has a monopoly on ignorance!!!!