My early Christmas presents to my self. Beware long story.

[bannockburn]

forward observer

According to the Guns and Ammo article I posted Merrill Lindsay was also the leading force in getting the George Washington pistols built. At some point in the process he had to travel back to Belgium to "motivate' the Liege gunsmiths as the first set fell well short of the mark of what was originally envisioned for these pistols.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Muchas Gracias Forward Observer!

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

Strange that the July 1975 Guns and Ammo article says Lindsay went to Belgium to get the guns copied and the literature (Replication Section) advertising the George Washington Pistols says they are made by Uberti of Bresica, Italy:



I wonder if the original copies were done in Belgium and then given to Uberti for the production runs?

 

[forward observer]

The fact that both the Hamilton Burr set and the Deringer set were produced by Uberti would lead credence to your theory. The Smithsonian article I linked indicates that the HB pistol was not initially given to Uberti but was taken to an independent gunsmith in Tourin, Italy to be disassembled first---to prepare drawings I assume. It could also be that USHS was so disappointed with the results they got from Belgium for the prototypes, they switched to Uberti and were satisfied enough that they continued to use them from then on. I bet they got a better price in Italy than Belgium too.

I have found it hard to tie down the time lines and/or maker info on these sets. All are listed in the Blue Book of modern black powder firearms, but many of the release dates appear to be wrong as do some of the issue prices. This is based on listing photos of documentation accompanying the pictures of the pistols, I have seen just in the last few weeks. I've stopped looking now since I pretty much broke the bank on my firearms purchases for a while---unless
I sell something,

The Blue book makes no mention of who made any of the sets, but then in a brief outline of the US Historical Society they state the following:

Previous organization which marketed historically significant firearms and black powder reproductions until April 1994. Located in Richmond, VA. Most firearms were manufactured by the Williamsburg Firearms Manufactory and the Virginia Firearms Manufactory.

Neither of these two named companies appear to exist, but were simply trademark names registered in the 1970's by the US Historical Society.

The Blue book states that the Hamilton Burr set was released in 1981, which I knew from receiving the prospectus within months of the Washington set, had to be wrong. The fact that the barrels on my set are stamped with an Italian date code of 1976 proves that.

We need Professor Peabody and the wayback machine to solve this.

Cheers

 

[bannockburn]

Ephraim Kibbey

I wonder if the original copies were done in Belgium and then given to Uberti for the production runs?

Sounds very plausible considering the difficulty Merrill Lindsay had in getting the first models built and how according to the article: "...the first set of pistols completed were a disappointment. The guns had a superficial resemblance to Washington's pistols but that was about it." Perhaps at this point the Bicentennial Society decided it would be a lot more practical (and maybe more economical), to go with a company like Uberti who already had a proven track record with recreating black powder weaponry.

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

Forward Observer - many of the photos of USHS offerings show an oval cartouche with a "W" surmounted by a crown. I wonder if this is the hallmark of the elusive "Williamsburg Firearms Manufactory?" The Colonial Williamsburg Gun Shop made some beautiful pieces and sold "defarbed" Italian BP revolvers with the correct markings added but I can't find any link to that hallmark for them. I think that the Virginia Firearms Manufactory existed until circa 1808 but again I can't find a logo associated with them either. "Curiouser and Curiouser"

 

[forward observer]

I should have mentioned that when I did a search for those two companies mentioned, I did find some historical info on
the Virginia Firearms manufactory from history just as you did, but then I switched to a search for the Williamsburg name. That's when I got the info that it was a trademark filed by USHS in 1978, but that now the trademark was in a "voluntary surrendered" status--I guess since USHS no longer exists.

https://www.trademarkia.com/williamsburg-firearms-manufactory-73186220.html

At that point I assume the the Virginia entity might have fallen into the same category and quit looking.

I think these names were just picked as back up company titles in case the the Historical society's business grew to the point that they could do some manufacturing in the US. Somebody provided this info to the Blue Book people and they just don't have the resources to double check this sort of info.

Cheers

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

I added trademarkia to my Firearms ID links file. Thanks Again!

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

I invited this seller, 1945engraver, to our discussion and the current one on Patersons:
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/728931726
Here are the America Remembers Patersons:

https://www.americaremembers.com/product/texas-paterson-tribute-revolver/

https://www.americaremembers.com/product/paterson-improved-belt-model-no2-revolver/

 

[Deus Machina]

Oh, pretty stuff.
I'm curious, and not well versed in this style of arms. What is that set into the bottom of those deringers' grips?

 

[WestKentucky]

I love the antiques, and these are beautiful recreations. As others have so eloquently mentioned, I would devalue them rather quickly with 777 and a hunk of lead. I have been eyeing twist duelers and have yet to be in the ballpark of making a purchase. Perhaps you could buy a set and will them away to some random (but good, deserving, and handsome to boot) guy you met on an internet forum.

 

[WestKentucky]

Oh, pretty stuff.
I'm curious, and not well versed in this style of arms. What is that set into the bottom of those deringers' grips?

Seems like your asking what is in the pommel compartment on the grip, if so that is a spare percussion cap nipple. The nipple screws into the breech and has a tiny hole through which a spark travels to ignite the powder which is compressed in the barrel. If your familiar with cannon from tv, think of it as a removable touch-hole. They are easy to gum up with powder residue, or even worse, with the failed explosive material that is inside of a cap assuming you just dropped the hammer and the cap just mushed.

 

[Deus Machina]

Seems like your asking what is in the pommel compartment on the grip, if so that is a spare percussion cap nipple. The nipple screws into the breech and has a tiny hole through which a spark travels to ignite the powder which is compressed in the barrel. If your familiar with cannon from tv, think of it as a removable touch-hole. They are easy to gum up with powder residue, or even worse, with the failed explosive material that is inside of a cap assuming you just dropped the hammer and the cap just mushed.

Yes, that's what I was asking about. Thanks!
I'm familiar with what it does, but that's a much more thorough explanation than I'm used to seeing. I can see why having an extra on-board would be useful, but would hardly expect to see it, especially on a little holdout piece; I figured they they would be kept in the box.
Heck, I didn't know they even made removable ones on the tiny guns like that. I figured a pick or something would be in the grip, if anything at all.