My ffl says no more Buds Gun Shop transfers

[Bubba613]

Before the GCA there were no gun stores. There were hardware stores, sporting goods stores, etc. They all sold guns.
Dogtown's rant is just that. He doesn't sell guns. He is merely an order clerk for those who do.
The internet model destroys what ought to be a good relationship between LGA and customer. Granted, some dealers havent gotten that memo. But that doesnt mean the model isn't correct.
Bud's big advantage typically is that the customer is stiffing the state on sales tax. Once Congress reforms this and institutes a uniform tax rate Bud's advantages will go away for dealers who are doing their job.

 

[mgmorden]

Dogtown's rant is just that. He doesn't sell guns. He is merely an order clerk for those who do.

Your mistake is that assuming that there is something wrong with this. A business is there to make money. What they do to make that money is wholly irrelevant. Whilst the traditional guys are pointing fingers and making fun of the "clerks", those clerks are laughing all the way to the bank while they put the others out of business.

 

[Armed012002]

That's an even worse deal for the dealer! He's making just a few dollars TOPS on a $25 dollar purchase, and you want a free transfer voucher with that? Sheesh...

Perhaps for every $2500 you spend or something like that, but for $25? Get real...

So I won't buy ANYTHING from them then. How about that?

There are plenty of people who do only FFL transfers.

Buds here I come.

 

[coebam]

As an FFL for 6 years I disagree & I charge $25 to transfer. I'd be happy all day to sit on my chair & call people to fax my ffl to while I make bank all day long and never worry about inventory either.
Your lame FFL is upset cause he is jealous of Buds Guns, in my opinion

Heck yes! Anyone around Lawrence, Ks needing a transfer let me know. Money is money. I don't care if I make the profit selling a firearm or making the profit on a transfer. The LGS sounds like a guy that won't be around much longer thinking like that.

 

[timhernandez]

Everytime I read one of these threads I am so thankful for my local gun shop and, feel very sorry for those of you out there that don't have a shop like I do.

In Metro Detroit, there are many, many LGS. Some are very old school, some are very progressive in their business models, etc. We are fortunate to have a choice.

In my mind, it has always been on the LGS to adapt to the business climate to guarantee their own success, like with any other business.

 

[dogtown tom]

Bubba613 ....Dogtown's rant is just that. He doesn't sell guns. He is merely an order clerk for those who do....

Your lack of understanding is why I'm successful.
I'm not an "order clerk"........I don't place the order, take the order, take payment or do anything of the sort.

To receive a gun I do EXACTLY what you would do if ordering a gun from a distributor....I send a copy of my FFL.

There is virtually no difference in me receiving a gun from Davidsons, RSR, Lipsey's, or Sports South and receiving one from Bud's, Impact or from an individual who sold his gun on GunBroker.

To claim that Bud's (or any internet retailer) only makes a profit because they don't charge sales tax shows why many LGS go out of business....they just don't get it:
1. Volume- Bud's ships more guns in one day than most LGS sell in a month. Volume= discounts from distributors and manufacturers that your LGS (or I ) will never get.
2. Shipping- Bud's and other internet retailers get massive discounts from UPS/FedEx due to the volume of packages they ship. When Bud's has a distributor drop ship it saves them even more $$$.
3. Variety- Bud's beats 99% of LGS in selection. "What ya see, is what I got" is not an unheard of phrase in a LGS. Of course the LGS could order it for you......but the buyer could do that legwork himself.

 

[roadchoad]

Couple thoughts:

Maybe it's just me, but I've noticed some gun shop owners are not savvy business people. Online sales are not going away, they are changing the market. Any dealer who fears change and ignores online commerce will be going under soon, only to be replaced by someone who embraces the new market structure.

Secondly, FFL transfers get people into the store. Maybe these guys should start stocking more ammo and accessories for the guns that they see coming from Bud's. Better yet, perhaps these store should track the guns they see coming from online sales, note the top sellers that Bud's conveniently has listed on their site, and stock those models at prices that beat Bud's+shipping+transfer? Gee what a crazy idea!

 

[roadchoad]

I keep seeing some form of this silliness in the thread:

The LGS will close! Then where will you get accessories/ammo/gunsmithing services/bore sighting/parts/service work?

That other part of the business is of value to the consumer, right? The LGS is making money off that, right? How will a shop fail if they have a diverse business model in which not all of the income is dependent on gun sales? How much value is a LGS that only sells overpriced guns, and does not provide any other services or products to the consumer? Not a good model. Any shop that does offer those services and charges appropriate prices will flourish.

Gun and accessory sales are through the roof right now. As rare as GSs are in my area, any shop that closes it's doors must not have had much to offer the customer.

 

[Bubba613]

I'm not an "order clerk"........I don't place the order, take the order, take payment or do anything of the sort.

You merely take orders and fill out paperwork. If you're happy doing that, more power to you.

 

[R.W.Dale]

You merely take orders and fill out paperwork. If you're happy doing that, more power to you.

No offense but that's all you do too.

You make orders and fill out paperwork.

Driving this hatred of the online sale is the false belief that an online sale is a sale you would have made.

9 in 10 times an online sale is for something odd and not avalible locally. You're not going to convince the guy looking for an sp101 in 9mm to settle for a $450 savage axis instead. The majority of the time folks will buy an item locally to avoid the online hoops provided its priced within $100 of the online gun. If its more than that overhead or not the item is simply overpriced.

True story a year ago I decided I wanted a new ruger 77/44. Well a lgs had one in stock for $690

Knowing what they retail for I happily drove across town to my preferred pawn shop and transfer dealer and asked him "what can you get me a 77/44 for OTD?"

he looked it up with his distributor and shot me a price of just under $500 and I ordered it on the spot. My 77/44 has since been traded off for a. 223 m77 all weather. Their 77/44 is still sitting on the shelf.

When I go to buy myself a 4.2" sp101 in a couple weeks ill simply stop by my pet pawnshop without shopping the other store.

posted via tapatalk using android.

 

[evan price]

I've got no problem with gunstores charging for their services- gunsmithing, range time, FFL transfers... That's a service and they can charge whatever they want, and that price depends on how much time they have to spend and how much they want the business. Don't want transfers? That's entirely your choice. Charge exhorbitant price for transfers? Your option entirely. Not my place to demand a change. I'll just take my money to someone else and probably a lot of my other business.

What's the difference from the customer going to Bud's (or Gunbroker) and finding the exact model he wants, paying for it, having it shipped, and paying the local FFL a reasonable transfer fee-

-Or, the LGS does the legwork, orders in the gun (tying up HIS capital), does the exact same paperwork, shipping/receiving grunt work, and enters it in his bound book and then waits to be paid by the customer while the banks float his money for a couple points.

What's the difference?

Oh yeah- the dirty, rotten scoundrel customer now knows the exact invoice price of the gun and won't stand for a 30% markup on the sale price for doing the job of a shipping clerk.

In my previous post I said this- and I stand behind it:

How much money do stores spend on advertising to get customers to come in the door?
Wouldn't it be nice to have a service that is fairly priced that customers PAY TO USE that has almost negligible actual expense that brings potential customers in the door?

Sure, you have overhead, and labor. Might as well use those expenses to bring in a little extra cash. I've never seen a gunstore that was so busy that they didn't have time to receive one more box.

Local gunstores don't like Bud's for the same reasons some ranges won't allow you to shoot any ammo but theirs, or that claim any brass expended is theirs- greed. No reloads, I understand. No lead rounds, I get it, EPA and expensive filters.
"No Winchester White Box"... that's greed.

 

[Rmart30]

After the run around from a LGS I had patronized for 20+ years I found 2 local pawn shops that love to do FFL transfers. They are happy to see me every time I walk in the door and they dont try to talk me into buying a model of firearm they have in stock when it isnt what Im looking for.

I agree with trying to support LGS but most of the guns I buy online or have shipped in are used guns that a LGS would never have on his shelf probably ever.

Check out some other places for your Next FFL transfer. Try posting on armslist for your area and see who other people are using locally to do theirs.

 

[dogtown tom]

Someone doesn't understand what "order" means...

Bubba613

Quote:
I'm not an "order clerk"........I don't place the order, take the order, take payment or do anything of the sort.

You merely take orders and fill out paperwork. If you're happy doing that, more power to you.

No sir. You would be wrong. What part of the above is not clear?:banghead:
I've not taken an order for a gun since September, but I average 100+ transfers each month....I hope you understand that I don't order the guns that are being transferred in. My customers buy them from GunBroker auctions, Bud's and gun forums like THR.

I fill out the exact same paperwork as you.

 

[The Sarge]

If your FFL wont do what you want/need go find one that will and be happy.

 

[godale]

now that someone mentioned harware stores i remember my dad buying guns at western auto.

 

[jay21]

To claim that Bud's (or any internet retailer) only makes a profit because they don't charge sales tax shows why many LGS go out of business....they just don't get it:
1. Volume- Bud's ships more guns in one day than most LGS sell in a month. Volume= discounts from distributors and manufacturers that your LGS (or I ) will never get.
2. Shipping- Bud's and other internet retailers get massive discounts from UPS/FedEx due to the volume of packages they ship. When Bud's has a distributor drop ship it saves them even more $$$.
3. Variety- Bud's beats 99% of LGS in selection. "What ya see, is what I got" is not an unheard of phrase in a LGS. Of course the LGS could order it for you......but the buyer could do that legwork himself.

QFT! I have referred customers to Buds and offered the transfer on certain guns i could not come close to. It would be nice to be the "seller" but would rather just have a customer. It seems to work as most return for future sales/transfers.

 

[danez71]

Dogtown Tom said:

There is virtually no difference in me receiving a gun from Davidsons, RSR, Lipsey's, or Sports South and receiving one from Bud's, Impact or from an individual who sold his gun on GunBroker.

Well... thats just false according to my favorite FFL. He says he gets a portion of the sale and NOT just a transfer fee. Thats a BIG difference.

Anyways... it doesnt matter too much anyways.


The bottom line is this... the consumer can shop where ever they want. The business can run their business how ever they want.

But if the consumer consistantly only shops at places at Wallmart or the internet because of price.... then, IMO, the consumer just forfeited their right to complain that the people at Walmart dont know anything or complain that they have to ship their gun to the mfg because there isnt a gun shop around anymore.

If you want rock bottom prices... you also get rock bottom of eveything else that goes along with it.


Me personally, I want rock bottom prices on commodities like food and gas. There really isnt any service, skill, or knowledge the vendor can provide with those. Its either good food/gas or not.


Me personally, I dont mind paying a little extra for things that service, skill, and knowledge play a part in me getting the most of my purchase.

YMMV

 

[Birch Knoll]

Well... thats just false according to my favorite FFL. He says he gets a portion of the sale

Well, he actually gets the whole sale, not a portion. But he had to lay out his own cash to purchase the firearm first.

NOT just a transfer fee. Thats a BIG difference.

Not so big as you might think. Margins are fairly slim on most new firearms, if you want competitive pricing. While the profit a dealer makes on a firearm is probably somewhat higher than a typical transfer fee, the dealer has to invest perhaps ten times what he expects to make on the sale in order to buy the inventory, which could well then sit on the shelf for months.

Transfers require no investment and take minimal time to perform. What's not to love?

 

[jerkface11]

I love how people keep bringing up the fixed costs of doing business as a reason to not make money off a transfer. You have to pay the bills and your employees no matter what. There is no reason to not make the extra cash off of a transfer. Pawn shops understand that Gun shops do not.

 

[jon_in_wv]

My LGS charges a 10% markup + sales tax if they order a gun for you. They charge $25 bucks for a transfer fee if you order it yourself and you don't pay sales tax. Normally it is cheaper to order it yourself. They don't seem to mind either way as long as they can get your business.

I'm not sure why people think you should pay large markups to keep a guy in business just because he can't keep up with the competition. Its his responsibility to make his business succeed, not mine. Bud's didn't start as a giant, they came up with a successful business model and succeeded. That is how business works. My LGS's gun orders for inventory are in the $17,000-20,000 range. They keep a couple hundred guns in stock and the guys doesn't really make money selling the guns. The business is also a scrap yard, sporting goods store, gun range, archery range, archery shop, and a clothing store. He makes a very nice profit by diversifying and being smart. I don't think I have a responsibility to make his business work for him if he decides to adopt a less successful business model.

 

[mgkdrgn]

Personally, my local guy who can order guns from a different distributor can beat Bud's EVERY time. He accepts transfer from Bud's, but he'll offer to get it and beat Bud's - this way I get a better price, he makes a profit and stays in business

Can beat Buds .. including the sales tax that Buds won't be charging?

Please please please let me know who that distributor is! I can sometimes afford to =match= Buds ... but once you toss 7% sales tax on top of that ...

 

[mgkdrgn]

Nothing like taking what a person said out of context to make yourself look smart huh? I didn't say I was trying to get rich, nor did I say I was just going to do only transfers. Additionally, I've had quite a few weapons transferred and none of them took more than a few minutes. So between twisting my words and looking smart, you succeeded at one of the two. Nice try though.

Do yourself a favor, come back and re-read this thread AFTER your first full year in the business.

Best of luck to you.

 

[simonm2211]

The LGS has to offer some value because their price is almost always significantly higher. My LGS has CHL courses and a range I use regularly. My FFL does transfers as a side business that introduces people to his main business of customizing guns. Both of these are viable business models.

I have bought more than 10 guns from Buds in the last 12 months and I bought only one gun from a LGS (SR1911) because it was the only place that I could get one. If I hadn't bought from Buds, I would have bought fewer guns simply because my boudget has a limit. So in my mind, Buds is contributing positively to the overall health of the industry and LGSs have to adapt. Or fade away.

 

[Bubba613]

No offense but that's all you do too.

You make orders and fill out paperwork.

No, sir. You have never been in my shop so you have not the slightest freaking idea what I do.
I make orders and fill out paperwork but that is the least part of what i do. I am a salesman, in the highest sense of the term. Dogtown is a paper-pusher, in the worst sense of the term. If he likes it, great. But that isn't what I got into this business to do.

 

[oneounceload]

Can beat Buds .. including the sales tax that Buds won't be charging?

Please please please let me know who that distributor is! I can sometimes afford to =match= Buds ... but once you toss 7% sales tax on top of that ...

He is a local guy here where I live. I was looking for a 642....Bud's has it for 289 delivered....add in the typical; $25 transfer fee and the total is $314.00 - still not bad compared to Gander. he then asked if he could quote me - he did. same gun from his distributor, with tax, profit background, etc....OTD $295.00...........

if folks would simply ASK their local guy what he can do, you might be surprised - my guy buys from a lot of folks, but seems to get his best deals from Sports South, so next time, i will do my research and ask him what he can do. Even if he withing a few bucks including tax, etc., I'll go there, because if I have a problem, he will be there to help instead of just taking a payment to ship it back