My first AD or why I feel like an idiot

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After playing around with my own PT1911 for a bit, I was able to duplicate the OP's experience (minus the loud bang and hole in the window... snap caps). By resting your finger on the trigger, the action of depressing the slide release can make the rest of your hand contract slightly - applying enough pressure to the trigger that when the slide slams home, it's inertia causes the frame to move forward in your hand... just enough to apply enough additional pressure on the trigger to drop the hammer.

Conclusion? Operator error.
 
Good advise on getting a gunsmith to certify a defect in the gun.
The real lesson: There are only 2 kinds of shooters; those who have had anAD, and those who WILL. Thankfully no one got hurt.
 
I`m thinking next time you`ll "drop the slide" on an empty chamber.
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Can't really do that if you are loading the gun. Sounds like the OP was reloading after a cleaning.

In my paranoia and worry over this I bought a little desktop bullet trap like you see in some police stations. I think they are around $150 new, friend of mine sold it to me for half that used.

It is bolted to a shelf in my ammo closet. Stick the muzzle in there and drop the slide to reload.

If that's something you do a lot it might be worth the investment. Sometimes you have to load them.
 
After playing around with my own PT1911 for a bit, I was able to duplicate the OP's experience (minus the loud bang and hole in the window... snap caps). By resting your finger on the trigger, the action of depressing the slide release can make the rest of your hand contract slightly - applying enough pressure to the trigger that when the slide slams home, it's inertia causes the frame to move forward in your hand... just enough to apply enough additional pressure on the trigger to drop the hammer.
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That is where I'd place my bet. Its a common cause of ND, probably second only to trying to catch a dropped and loaded gun. Especially since my .38Super PT1911 had a surprisingly light trigger for a stock factory gun.

On a 1911 a protruding firing pin causes a jam -- I know, I had a firing pin retainer break the bottom half went bye-bye the top half slid down enough to keep the firing pin from retracting, gun jammed after the shot as the next round could not slide up the breach face.

If it was something else why didn't the magazine empty?
 
The Taurus 1911 appears to closely resemble a Series 80 Colt's design.

If a round were dropped in the chamber and the slide dropped, this could cause extractor damage, but not an ACCIDENTAL DISCHARGE. An AD is the gun discharging WITHOUT the finger being on the trigger.

Likely a NEGLIGENT DISCHARGE, caused by having the finger on the trigger at an inappropriate time, is what the OP experienced..

The description earlier by a poster of having the finger on the trigger at an inappropriate time is very likely what happened. The 1911 has been around so long that the bugs were worked out a long time ago.

As far the inevitability of everyone having a ND, not so. After 50+ years in the gun culture, including high volume competition shooting, hunting, and extensive training, often in a Law Enforcement environment, I have yet to dump a round by pulling the trigger in a negligent manner.

I HAVE had AD's caused by broken parts and customer "fixes" when I gunsmithed. However, arms were pointed in a safe direction in a firing range.

Remember, the Primary Safety of ANY firearm is MUZZLE DIRECTION.

Another is ON TARGET, ON TRIGGER. OFF TARGET, OFF TRIGGER. These two rules will keep you safe anywhere you go.

The obvious rule of not having the arm loaded unless it is in use rounds out the envelope of safe gun handling.

I would get the firearm checked out by a good smith. After, get remedial training on the unique features of the 1911 platform.

A certificate to the judge that steps were taken to prevent a future issue will go a long way, if there is not a mechanical issue with your 1911.
 
[The officers said that it was best that I called and not some one else.
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Of course they did. Just like it's better to call them if you're driving drunk and take out your own mailbox. Think how much better that is than if the neighbor reports you knocked down your mailbox....see Tiger should have called the cops himself and everything would have been fine.
 
The summons is for careless discharge of a firearm.
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You need to be absolutely sure what the charge is. Reckless endangerment? Something else? There should be a code provision cited. Look it up. Find out what level of crime it is. This may be something you will need to get a lawyer to represent you on.

Also, find out what the MAXIMUM amount of time you could do is. That's critical because even if you don't do a day and plead out nolo, if the maximum punishable was more than two years you will find yourself barred from purchasing under NICS. Whether it's called a felony or not is irrelevant. BE VERY CAREFUL!

I would do all this before taking anything to the smith. If you are looking at something more than a mere citation (like a traffic ticket) or low level infraction, then you need to get a lawyer and they may advise you against taking it to a smith for tactical reasons. Sounds like the firearm was not taken into evidence, so it may be better to leave a question mark over the firing pin until the legal dust settles. Or it may be that the lawyer has a particular person you should take it to.
 
what about the

Rest of the ammo in the magazine if there was more ,If the pin was stuck you should have had a mac 10 for the next 7 rounds
 
After playing around with my own PT1911 for a bit, I was able to duplicate the OP's experience (minus the loud bang and hole in the window... snap caps). By resting your finger on the trigger, the action of depressing the slide release can make the rest of your hand contract slightly - applying enough pressure to the trigger that when the slide slams home, it's inertia causes the frame to move forward in your hand... just enough to apply enough additional pressure on the trigger to drop the hammer.
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I just tried this on my Springfield 1911 and it didn't work. Even if I pulled the trigger on purpose while dropping the slide the hammer wouldn't drop. It just acts like I just shot it and I have to release the trigger for it to reset in order to drop the hammer.

I thought all 1911's were pretty smiler, are PT1911's that different?
 
The summons is for careless discharge of a firearm. Thanks for all the advice Jim. I will look into it asap. Now I'm just hoping my landlord doesn't evict us (me and my wife) over this mess.
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Although you are probably the mega honest type that has to run out and tell everyone your story...

Chances are that unless you inform your landlord yourself.

He or she will never know about the summons.

Hold back the temptation to feel the need or duty to inform.


Get the window repaired yourself.
 
Has anyone worked the trigger on this Pt-111?

Has the hammer ever followed when dropping the slide? or has the pistol ever double fired?

A five gallon pail 2/3 full of sand is a dirt cheap (literally) safety precaution to keep next to your bench. Always point the weapon into the pail when chambering a round in doors.

Count your blessings that no one was hurt.

Move forward in life and cherish each day.

Calling the cops was a judgement call at the time of the event. You thought it was the right thing to do THEN, so don't second guess yourself now.
 
There are only 2 kinds of shooters; those who have had an AD, and those who WILL.
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If I believed that, I'd sell my firearms.

I don't remember seeing a poll on that question here - perhaps I'll start one.
 
This does rather make the case for having a sand bucket or similar at home and using it instead of a window/drywall/etc.
 
There are only 2 kinds of shooters; those who have had an AD, and those who WILL.
Click to expand...

There are two kinds of shooters; those who keep their finger off the trigger, and those who don't. The second kind have ND's (no such thing as an AD).

I used to be one of the second kind until I had a ND (with a Rossi slide action .22 of all things), then I learned my lesson. Nobody was hurt because I at least followed one of the other rules - the gun was pointed in a safe direction.

There was a study done some years ago (pre-internet) where data from every AD and ND from police forces across the country were crunched. There were lots of secondary causes (broken safeties, etc), but in every case somebodies finger pulled the trigger. I wish the NRA or some other safety organization would repeat the study with more recent data. In any case, I think the results would be the same - fingers on triggers.
 
The officers said that it was best that I called and not some one else.
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Well, yeah, for the cops. They saved a bit of footwork. You got a summons.
Supposed they knocked on your door and claimed neighbors heard a gunshot.
You say, "Yeah, I heard it too". Now what? Cops ask if it was you, you say, "No, it may have come from a passing car."
Believe me, the cops wouldn't feel the least bit guilty lying to you, or lying to protect one of their own.

If someone was hurt, that's another story totally.
 
Let me get this straight.

You just got done cleaning and re-assembling your PT1911. You then put a loaded magazine into the pistol. You release the slide, the slide goes forward chambering a round, the firing pin strikes the primer setting off around.

That is an example of an AD. Yes, you should have been pointing the firearm at the floor or something. Glad that no one got hurt.
 
just be thankful no one was hurt. i often think of this after cleaning my carry gun. so i point it out the back door of the garage which is wooded lot that leads down to creek and behind that is open field. i also try not to chamber the same round more than once becuse of the small dent left on the primer. i would at least talk to your lawyer about the summons before you go in there and lose your second amendment rights. see what his advice is. i also have the same queston as post #34.
 
I guess the question I ask is this...

How often do discharges happen as a result of loading a round?

I have never had a round go off by letting the slide go to load it.

joe
 
It sounds likely to me that it was a freak malfunction of the gun. These things do happen. Possibly the firing pin got stuck. Keep in mind that the Taurus 1911's are known to vary wildly in quality and reliability, even from gun to gun. If the bolt face metal were a bit soft, dry firing could cause the firing pin to bottom out and eventually bevel the inside of the bolt face. This can result in stickage of the firing pin in the fully forward position, even with the spring. The same can be done with fouling or dried oil in the firing pin channel. Likely the impact with the cartridge and the recoil was enough to unstick the firing pin and prevent any further discharges.

Lesson learned: keep your firing pin channel CLEAN and lubed with fresh oil. Also consider replacing the firing pin spring with a Wolff extra power one.
 
Well said Warden Wolf...


Assuming there was no finger on the Trigger, when the Slide chambered the Round...

That could do it, and it might only have been able to do it the one time before self-clearing.

Possibly, this condition, if provided by a Statement from a Licenced Gunsmith, could lessen the embarassment for an explaination to the Court.
 
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