My first negligent discharge! And I got it on video.

[Trey Veston]

I was filming me shooting my late father's 1903 Springfield USMC reproduction sniper rifle in honor of the Marine Corps birthday today, and Veteran's Day tomorrow when I experienced a negligent discharge. I cleaned the rifle earlier and noticed that it didn't feel quite right and that the trigger was exceptionally light. I didn't put any rounds in it, as I wanted to make sure I was at the range and ready to go hot in case something was wrong.

It was. Had an ND at 4:43 in the video.

All other safety procedures followed, so not a huge deal. Still, was the first time I had a firearm go off when I didn't expect it. Well, other than when I was 10 and a BB gun went off. Scared me so much I have been careful for the last 44 years, lol.

 

[Riomouse911]

It’s just a matter of time I guess, sooner or later everyone has something occur that could get ugly. Glad everything was OK and no one got hurt.

If every gun owner followed the four rules so when something inevitably fails, things will not end tragically.

Stay safe.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

No mystery, the sear engagement is just way too light and out of whack. Someone has filed on it to make the trigger lighter, and has gone too far. Like many other firearms, if you make the trigger too light, and can push the hammer or striker forward, it means the engagement surfaces are too minimal or not at 90 degree angles to each other.

On the bottom of the bolt there is a small lug that engages the trigger, I would suspect you'd find evidence of filing and polishing. There will also be some kind of bar or sear that the trigger activates, (just pull the bolt out, and watch while you pull the trigger, you'll see it move) and that may have been filed on also. Not surprising that on that type of rifle, someone would attempt to lighten the trigger.

Filing sear surfaces is an "art", and not everyone should attempt it. Looks to me like someone "tried". I don't believe even an issued sniper rifle would ever be put into service with a sub-one pound trigger. And certainly not a striker/cocking piece that could be pushed forward.

Quick fix to try would be to get a new firing pin/striker unit, that has that little lug on it. Anytime you can push the striker forward, the rifle is unsafe to load.

 

[Trey Veston]

No mystery, the sear engagement is just way too light and out of whack. Someone has filed on it to make the trigger lighter, and has gone too far. Like many other firearms, if you make the trigger too light, and can push the hammer or striker forward, it means the engagement surfaces are too minimal or not at 90 degree angles to each other.

On the bottom of the bolt there is a small lug that engages the trigger, I would suspect you'd find evidence of filing and polishing. There will also be some kind of bar or sear that the trigger activates, (just pull the bolt out, and watch while you pull the trigger, you'll see it move) and that may have been filed on also. Not surprising that on that type of rifle, someone would attempt to lighten the trigger.

Filing sear surfaces is an "art", and not everyone should attempt it. Looks to me like someone "tried". I don't believe even an issued sniper rifle would ever be put into service with a sub-one pound trigger. And certainly not a striker/cocking piece that could be pushed forward.

Quick fix to try would be to get a new firing pin/striker unit, that has that little lug on it. Anytime you can push the striker forward, the rifle is unsafe to load.

Great info! Thanks!

 

[rb288]

Sorry, a 1 lb trigger on a 1903 is just way to light.
Someone has "bubba'd" that sear engagement to the point it is dangerous.
Unless you can find the parts to fix that trigger, you should not load a live round in that weapon.
You have a potentially very dangerous and unreliable weapon there.

 

[JDeere]

Put a new trigger in it and have someone that knows these rifles tune it correctly. That trigger is toast. Numrich or the likes my have one in stock...

 

[jmr40]

That was absolutely NOT a ND, at least not at that moment. That term is way overused. You had an unintentional discharge, there was no negligence involved in that moment. Whoever adjusted the trigger to an unsafe level may be guilty of negligence but even then if there was some property damage or physical injury. If someone doesn't end up in jail, it wasn't a ND.

 

[Nature Boy]

It wasn’t a negligent discharge if you were pointed down range and the bullet impacted inside the range fan. Still, it’s a unsafe condition for any rifle to fire unintentionally.

I installed a Timney trigger in my dad’s sporterized 1903A3. I could adjust the trigger light enough that just closing the bolt would disengage the sear. Keeping it ~2lbs solved the problem. A gentle rap on the rifle butt with a dead blow hammer is a good test to see if you have enough sear engagement to be safe.

 

[garandsrus]

Your video shows is that your trigger is not “two stage”, which it should be. Somebody definitely messed with it and some replacement parts are in order and will fix the problem. Each stage should be 2+ pounds, for a total trigger weight in excess of 4 lbs.

When the rifle didn’t cock at the 3+ minute mark, there was a problem.

 

[HKGuns]

Your video clearly shows and you admit "You don't understand how this works" right in the video. Get a competent gunsmith to look at that rifle before proceeding further. I definitely wouldn't load it again until it is fixed.

 

[DustyRusty]

Very nice shooting location. Get that beauty smithed properly and report back please.

 

[Random 8]

I've had a few interesting things, mostly involving cold weather. At a young age, I learned that WD40 should go nowhere near a firearm. Had a delayed firing pin drop on an old single shot. 22. Put a hole in the milk house roof after it warmed up. Safety was ON! Got Remingtoned a couple times too. A rifle shouldn't discharge when you flip off the safety, but if you have a green model with a flip safety it might. The design worked well on the beefy P14 and M17, not as well on more petit sporting rifles combined with wear, non-issue lubricant and cold weather. A friend put a hole in his pickup with a 722. One of mine just cost me a nice buck. It happened more than once with my 788. I'm a big fan of muzzle control.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

I don't suppose there's an extra cocking piece and striker in the butt-stock? Sometimes there is.....
Tons of parts on Ebay in any event.

 

[I6turbo]

That was absolutely NOT a ND, at least not at that moment.

I agree. That wasn't an ND. It was a malfunction of the weapon, and since you (OP) were taking proper safety precautions by keeping the weapon pointed to a spot where it wouldn't have mattered if the gun accidentally fired or was intentionally fired, there was no negligence. Instead of this video being titled Negligent Discharge, it could be titled, Why We Take Proper Safety Precautions With Firearms.

One thing you could have done differently and better, though, was to have thoroughly checked out the functions of the gun before loading ammo into it or taking it to the range. Most likely, whatever is wrong with the gun didn't just happen while you were shooting it there at the range, and if so, you'd have discovered the problem without the unintended discharge.

 

[doubleh]

I am in the no ND camp also. It was a defective gun cause by someone that didn't know what they were doing.

My solution would be a Timney replacement.

 

[film495]

yup - looks like a clear malfunction. the only negligence about it IMHO, is maybe you didn't find that while function testing, you discovered it with a live round. all other rules being followed, all good, that's why they have the safety rules and we follow them.

 

[mshootnit]

I kind of have an issue with the whole negligent discharge concept. Malfunction vs. Negligent discharge and assigning blame for the ND's. Show me one man who handles guns enough and I will show you a man who has had an ND. Does that mean that we are all negligent? Negligent by nature? Or just human? I would simply call them "Unintended discharges." And that is not to take away at all from the responsibility of safe gun handling. Adding to this are some statistcally provable dumb@$$ firearm handling practices some people are taught and use.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Put a new trigger in it and have someone that knows these rifles tune it correctly. That trigger is toast. Numrich or the likes my have one in stock...

I'm thinking it's most likely the firing pin/striker assembly, although certainly the trigger mechanism is also toast. Both should/would be easily replaced or repaired. I just pulled the bolt out of my Springfield, the sear engagement surfaces are both easily seen. Any filing or grinding on them should be obvious. However, the trigger may have been shimmed in some weird way to limit it's engagement, so that will also have to be sorted out.

 

[Riomouse911]

I am in the negligence causing an unintended discharge camp, but I see no issue at all with what @Trey Veston did.

The negligence was primarily at the hands of whoever tinkered with the rifles firing mechanism and created the conditions where it would unintentionally fire a shot without the trigger being pulled. (This is one thing that Baldwin is trying to claim as a defense for shooting Hyack. But unfortunately for this theory, the gun wasn’t malfunctioning at all…the guns operator was.)

Now, had Trey’s fired bullet struck a person or property, the man behind the gun would have been held to some level of criminal or civil responsibility no matter who tinkered with it. Trey eliminated that risk to himself by employing proper safety precautions (Always pointing it in safe direction, knowing the target and what’s beyond is clear, etc.) so the fired round did not turn into something where Trey would potentially be held criminally or civilly responsible (Like Baldwin).

That was excellent stuff on Trey’s part, and why those two rules are so incredibly important.

So yes, it was very much an unintended discharge so I see no reason for Trey to kick himself for it. But the cause of the event was ultimately negligence by the person(s) that created the conditions for it to occur.

Stay safe.

 

[I6turbo]

Show me one man who handles guns enough and I will show you a man who has had an ND.

I'm 100% confident that waay more people have had true NDs than will admit to them. And even more than that have had accidental or unintentional discharges that might not be deemed negligent, but certainly weren't intended at the moment the gun was discharged.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

One thing you could have done differently and better, though, was to have thoroughly checked out the functions of the gun before loading ammo into it or taking it to the range.

Truth, but that comes under "hind sight", which we all lack. For future reference, an easy way to have checked that rifle, in hind-sight, (!!!) would be to cock it (empty of course) and then hit the cocking piece "smartly" with the heel of one's hand. Or a wood mallet, or small brass hammer. Then when it fell it would have been obvious that it was defective. Otherwise, it would be easy to assume that the trigger was just "really light". A professionally done light trigger would easily pass that test.

I have not taken my bolt apart lately, but I think the cocking piece and firing pin are one piece, (sure of it but sometimes I'm wrong. !!!) so again, should be able to get a replacement. That would be the quick fix, and then if that does not fix it, look into the trigger mechanism. If you could not get a replacement trigger and striker/firing pin, a good gunsmith familiar with bolt guns could weld up the sear surfaces, and then re-cut/shape them to the proper angles.

Last and least, it's possible that the firing pin spring has been shortened, a shade-tree "trick" to get a lighter trigger pull. Something to consider, look into, although that won't compromise the safety of the rifle, or contribute to it's current problem/defect/malfunction, but could produce some miss-fires with hard primers.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Great info! Thanks!

Welcome, hope that helps. But, really an easy and inexpensive fix no matter how you decide to go about it. If you decided to go the gunsmith route, a good, competent and honest 'smith would not (or shouldn't) charge much to fix it. Good luck!

 

[I6turbo]

Truth, but that comes under "hind sight", which we all lack.

I'm very good at hindsight, but not too good at foresight.

Kidding aside, I learned pretty early in my gun-owning career to go through every gun I get (even new ones) before I start shooting it, and make sure it's as it should be, or at least in safe and serviceable condition. I especially pay attention to the trigger, which I'm typically looking for ways to improve while I'm in there -- a good cleaning and proper lubing at the least, and some degree of a trigger job at most.

Well, actually I learned that pretty early, but it was several years later before I had the wisdom and patience to always do it. I have ALWAYS done it for the past 20 years or so.

 

[bbqncigars]

In '72 I was at the range with a Mauser 1910 pistol freshly acquired from a gent in financial difficulty. Racking the slide on a loaded magazine resulted in "BRRRT" and an unwelcome adrenaline rush. All rounds went into the berm, and it taught me to always clean and lube any new acquisition before a range outing.

 

[Nature Boy]

Negligent by nature?

Hey now!!