"My gun doesn't like 'xxx' bullet..."

[Bbear]

I've heard it often enough, heck, I've said it myself a time or two, 'my gun doesn't like (name the brand, weight, construction-type) bullet.
It's a fallacy. Fake news.
Now, before you get your dander up too far, please read on.

I am NOT including factory loaded ammo in this post. Though I think most of us have, at one time or another, blamed the projectile for what the load did not accomplish accuracy-wise. Hence the reason most non-reloaders are told to try various boxes of ammo to find out 'what their rifle likes'.

I AM including reloading component bullets.

A few caveats though:
All of the following is considering you have selected the proper LENGTH bullet for the twist rate your barrel has.
All of the following is also considering you aren't trying to load a bullet WEIGHT that doesn't have a fair opportunity to attain your goal (paper punching, game killing, plinking, varmint etc. )

Point in fact from personal experience.
It is NOT that your gun doesn't 'like' a certain bullet. Your gun does NOT like the certain combination of components you selected for the load.
Recently, I wanted to work up a load for my AR to use on these small-ish whitetail does here in the hill country of Texas. We're talking a full-size, field dressed doe running 50-75 lbs.
I selected the quite capable Nosler 64 gr bonded solid base bullet. A bullet well-liked by both deer and hog slayers as being quite capable of doing the job on said game.
Starting with one brand of brass (Prvi in this case) and one brand of primers (CCI SR) and my selected bullet. I had a goal of shooting .75 or smaller groups.
I ran through 8 different powders before I found one that gave me what I was looking for.
TAC
H335
Varget
IMR 4064
BL-c2
CFE223
IMR 4166
Benchmark

Each went through several attempts to find an accurate load. Only one finally did. The methods attempted included:
3-shot groups with powder weights of .3 grain increments
3-shot groups with .1 gr increments
5-shot groups
at least one was a 10 shot group
OCW
FPS at .2 gr increments (shooting one shot through the chrony and looking for a 'flat spot' ala OCW

For my 358 Win I selected a Hornady 200 gr bullet. I'd shot some factory stuff that gave me 1" groups consistently and wanted to match it. After a call to Hornady about the bullet they used, I picked it. I used the once-fired cases and WLR primers. Using IMR 4064 (I have 18 lbs of the stuff) I set up a range of 5-3-shot groups with different powder amounts.
The 3 rd load duplicated the velocity I had with the factory stuff and gave me a 3/8" 3 shot group. I I loaded up 50 of that load and then shot a 10-shot group for giggles to verify the load. I did 10 shots inside of .75".

A third example was my two 25-06's. One has more than 3000 rounds down the tube and I've been chasing the lands with my 'usual' load.
I decided to try a different bullet.
Ran my normal powder and couldn't find anything decent. Ran through the 'normal' powders for the 25-06 - IMR & H4831, 4350's, Retumbo, 7828ssc (didn't run any of the RL22 out there due to the wide swings in temps I'll be liable to hunt in-from below freezing to over 100 degrees.
Finally got a load to shoot just under an inch. Played with the seating depth and tightened it up to just over .5" 5-shot groups.
Using two different brands of brass (one for each rifle) I found the COAL was the same on both but the powder load was .5 gr less on the second one.


Just two examples of several I've been through.

Thoughts?

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

For my Savage 308 (1-10") I have never found a good load for the Hornady 178 grain A-max. Always horizontal strings, tried many COL's, powders and charge weights. I still have a couple hundred and it's been a few years since I loaded any, maybe I'll give it another try.
Sierra 175 and 168 MK's shoot very well and so do Lapua and Berger 155's. Even 190 MK's shoot pretty well.

 

[wombat13]

I guess it depends on how much time/money you want to spend finding a load that works. I spent years trying to find a great load with a 180 gr bullet in my Ruger Hawkeye .300WM. I've also shot a number of different factory loads with 180 gr. bullets. Factory loads I tried Nosler BT, Nosler Partition, Federal Fusion, Winchester SuperX. Handloads I tried Nosler BT, Nosler Accubond, Sierra GameKing, Hornady SST with various powders (at least RL22, IMR 4831, IMR 4350, Hybrid 100V). The best I could get was 1.25" to 1.5" groups. This took me years because I can't get to the range very often.

I then tried 165 gr Barnes TSX with IMR 4831. Sub 1" groups, most in the .75" range, sometimes up to 1". The very first powder I tried with the bullet! I just thought it was the bullet or I got lucky. Well, I've not been happy with the TSX bullet on whitetail (too many deer with no blood trail), so I bought Federal Premium ammo loaded with 165 gr Partitions - again sub MOA, with the first factory load I tried in that bullet weight. Did I just get lucky again? If so, how is it possible that I never got lucky with any one of the handloads and factory loads in 180 gr?

So could I get the same accuracy with 180 gr.? Perhaps, but how many years and how much money on components will it take to find it? Next time I work up a load for this rifle I'll start with 165 gr. bullet.

Another example: Savage Axis II in .25-06. I tried factory loads with 120 gr., 117 gr (two different bullets), 115 gr, and 100 gr (three bullets). All three of the 100 grain bullets grouped an inch or less, all of the 115 and heavier were 2" to 4" groups. So, how much time and money should I spend searching for a heavy bullet load for that rifle?

 

[ATLDave]

So, with significant effort (and barrel wear), you were eventually able to make a couple of troublesome bullet/rifle combos work. And, from this, you conclude that there is no such thing as a bullet that a particular firearm doesn't like? Seems like an odd conclusion to draw.

 

[mdi]

Umm, thanks. But for a couple of my guns, certain bullets, no matter what powder, charge, primer, etc., would not perform well. I research my components before I use them and very rarely choose an "off the wall" combination. The bullets I use fit my guns and normally are designed for the specific caliber/cartridge. I don't often use "heavy for caliber" nor "light for caliber" bullets either. Jes my experience, your's may differ...

 

[Blue68f100]

I shot out a barrel in one of my AR's trying to get a 55 gr bullet to shoot, 1 moa. Best I ever got that was repeatable was 2 moa at 100 yrds. Would shoot 65gr and 69gr < 0.7 moa.

 

[Patocazador]

Non-lead bullets are made of materials that are lighter than lead thus longer for weight and caliber than a lead/jacketed bullet. Depending on the twist of your barrel these X bullets may not stabilize due to the extra length needed to achieve the desired weight. Therefore, one can unequivocally state that a gun "does not like xxx bullet". Your argument is invalid.

 

[jmr40]

You MIGHT be right, but I'm not convinced. At least not yet. But I'm open to exploring the theory. I have several 308 rifles, some will shoot everything 125gr to 200 gr with excellent accuracy. Others, with the same twist will shoot some bullets very well, others poorly. In fact even with very similar bullets there is a huge difference. Externally Nosler Accubonds and Ballistic Tips are the same dimensions in equal bullet weights. One of my rifles shoots AB's great, but BT's not nearly as well.

Just an observation, not a proven fact. But based on my observations rifles with heavier barrels seem to shoot a variety of bullets well. The thinner, lighter barrels will often shoot every bit as good. But only with specific loads. And some show a preference for certain bullet weights even though the barrel twist is the same.

Twist rate is a consideration, but sometimes we overthink it. I have two 308's with 12 twists, one each with 11 and 10 twists. I have see more difference between the 2 with 12 twists than the others. One is the most accurate with anything I load in it, the other is quite picky about what it shoots. The 11 and 10 twist barrels should show a preference for heavier bullets. Yet the 10 twist shoots 125-130 gr bullets better than the 12 twist guns.

I don't think twist rate is an issue until you get to the extremes. A 308, 30-06 or even 300 WM with a 10,11, or 12 twist will shoot almost any available bullet well enough. A 223 with a 7, 8, or 9 twist will shoot most common bullets acceptably, assuming it is an accurate bullet. But when you get to a 12 twist 223 then you will have issues with bullets on the heavy end of the spectrum.

 

[Llama Bob]

With a decent barrel most bullets and most powders can be made to shoot well. Distance to the lands and velocity node charge weight will get you there.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

My Mauser C96 (ser num 107xxx = 1912-1913 manufacture, KFS Atlanta import from China, worn out barrel) would not stabilize 7,63 SBP Mauser, 7.62x25 TT rounds at all. 18" groups at 25 yards with keyholes. Bullet diameter .308" factory ammo. I could push a bullet pulled from an S&B round down the barrel with a cleaning rod and barely scrape the bullet with what was left of the lands.

With handloads with .312" '.32' revolver bullets in 85gr, it shoots fine. My gun's rifling does not look like factory 7,63 Mauser with sharp lands and grooves; it looks like polygonal rifling ala H&K.

I remembered from the Foxfire books: as muzzleloaders wore, the owners would have the local gunsmith or blacksmith recherry the bullet mold to cast bullets that fit the new caliber of the worn barrel.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

I have a .303 Brit Lee Enfield sporter that puts 174gr British Military, 180 gr Remington Corelockt SP, and .312" 180 gr reloads 38gr 4895 in consist groups, 2 moa size, all close together. I gave up trying to get good groups with 150gr .311 or .312 with recommended powders and charges.

I suspect it may have a lot to do with the bedding of the action in the forearm "walking" various loads from low right to upper left on the target. I said forget it and laid in an ammo box of the load that worked best.

 

[Dudedog]

Better make sure its of 18 if it is seeing "XXX: bullets

My .45 loves MBC 200gr SWCs, does not care much at all for the batch of Xtreme plated 200 SWCs I tried.
Of course I may not have tried the right combo before I gave up (ran out of bullets and didn't order more), but none of my known good lead/coated lead combos shined with the Xtremes.

Other peoples .45s shoot them well, so I would put them in the my gun just does not like these category.

 

[Bfh_auto]

If only one powder will make a bullet work, then your gun doesn't like it. If my gun likes a bullet, you can use any appropriate powder and it will shoot well.

 

[mdi]

I think this is why many/most reloads are better than factory ammo. We can give our guns what it likes best, not just a "one size fits all". I don't shoot much factory ammo anymore but store bought ammo will work fair to very good as they are loaded to perform well in a wide variety of guns (I bought a box of factory 45 Colt three months ago because I needed some brass quick and can't remember any before that back several years, except my 5.45x39).