My Smith needs a 'smith

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grimjaw

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Just picked up a S&W 64-3. I'd run about 20 rounds through it at the range, some standard pressure 158gr and some Corbon +P 125gr. I took it out again tonight to try some different loads through it, all of them factory, or so I thought.

I got about 20 rounds of .38 Special when I picked up a different revolver. I was told it was Corbon +P, but I don't know the bullet weight. It was a jacketed hollowpoint bullet. It didn't look like any Corbon headstamp I've seen, but I'm still new to the game. The headstamp says "R-P 38 SPL +P". I have no reason to believe the person was being untruthful. So I fired two cylinders worth of this stuff, and it was defintely +P. I fired a cylinder of standard pressure afterwards, and then decided I wanted to get rid of the rest of this mystery stuff. Loaded up the last six shots, fired one. I tried to cock the hammer for the next shot, but it wouldn't budge. I tried to eject the cylinder, but it also wouldn't budge. Closer examination shows it was not a squid load; there's nothing lodged in the barrel. There's nothing in the cylinder gap. The cartridge case is empty and doesn't look like it split. From what I can see, the cylinder doesn't look damaged. It doesn't matter what I've tried so far, I can't get the cylinder out. My first thought was that the lockwork got busted up, or the pin that pushes the ejector star got damaged. I removed the side plate, and I can't see anything that looks beaten up or damaged. The pin behind the cylinder latch moves forward when pushed, but I can't see in well enough to see if it's engaging the ejector star.

I was trying to be very careful because I still have five live rounds of this mystery ammunition in the revolver. The one under the hammer is completely expended, though, I'm certain. I'm planning to take it to the gunsmith tomorrow.

This is extremely disappointing, because I was intending to use this revolver for CCW. I was actually hitting my target at 15 yards and handle the recoil! :rolleyes: I'd like to blame the ammunition, but I just don't know. I don't need another lesson in mystery ammunition, that's for sure. If it wasn't the ammunition, I suppose I should be grateful this happened at the range.

I can get pictures of all the particulars if anybody is interested in making a diagnosis. I know I'm asking for alot of stern "I told you so" by posting this, but somebody has to be the comedic relief on this forum. It might as well be me.

jmm
 
One of the many unwritten rules of guns: DO NOT FIRE ANY AMMO THAT APPEARS "MYSTERIOUS" TO YOU!!! It tends to cause problems just such as you are experiencing. Tha being said, anybody know what kind it is so I can avoid it?
 
I got about 20 rounds of .38 Special when I picked up a different revolver. I was told it was Corbon +P, but I don't know the bullet weight. It was a jacketed hollowpoint bullet. It didn't look like any Corbon headstamp I've seen, but I'm still new to the game. The headstamp says "R-P 38 SPL +P". I have no reason to believe the person was being untruthful.
Click to expand...

Something is wrong with this picture.

I'm guessing you shot someone's home-loaded ammunition. Unless you know the person very well and unless he really knows what he's doing at the loading bench, you should never—ever!—put his ammunition in your gun.

I hope I'm guessing wrong.
 
I'm guessing you shot someone's home-loaded ammunition.

It's entirely possible. I don't believe he reloads, but for all I know he got the ammunition from somebody else that did. I wouldn't know how to tell the difference by looking at it.

you should never—ever!—put his ammunition in your gun.

I know, I know. The next thing you know, I'll be blowing holes in my apartment.

jmm
 
Most likely you have primer flow into the breechface and that is what is locking your gun up, usually you can bump the cylinder open with the heel of your hand. DON"T hit it hard, you can bend the crane easily.
 
Has your ejector rod come unscrewed?????

That could be the problem, if so its not a big deal to fix.

If you take a piece of poster board and slide it under the cylinder between the frame and the cylinder and push it back so you can depress the cylinder bolt with the poster board. Now you should be able to rotate the cylinder.

Put your finger on the ejector rod or a pencil eraser if its an underlug barrel and the ejector rod is recessed and your finger wont fit. You need to hold the ejector rod so it doesnt move. Now rotate the cylinder clockwise, and that should screw the ejector rod back in (ejector rod has counter clockwise / lefthand threads), once it stops rotating without the rod turning its screwed in, and you should be able to open the revolver.

IF thats the problem.

If it is primer flowback into the firing pin hole, you may be able to rotate the cylinder by holding the bolt down as above and free it so you can open it.

Good luck
 
I believe that R P is Remington Peters.

Your description of the ammo sounds like some Remingtom +P semi-jacketed hollowpoints that I got at Walmart a few weeks back. The stuff definitely "felt" hot. I'll post a pic when I get home.
 
usually you can bump the cylinder open with the heel of your hand. DON"T hit it hard, you can bend the crane easily.

We have a winner! I placed a thick rubber mat on the edge of my worktable, and while holding the cylinder latch forward, bumped it against the edge. Voila!

Most likely you have primer flow into the breechface and that is what is locking your gun up

You can use the following two links to see if it looks like 'primer flow'. From the description, and after examination of other fired cartridges, I'd say it's likely. Also pictured are the unfired cartridges that were left over. Maybe someone can tell if they are obviously reloads from the pictures.

Standing
Sitting

The scratches on the fired cartridge came after it had been fired. There doesn't appear to be any damage to the breechface or cylinder, but just the same, it's going to the gunsmith before it's fired again. Might be best just to send it back to S&W for a full check.

jmm
 
doesn't look like primer flow, the primer looks normal.

My guess is that you have a partly unscrewed ejector rod.

I'm sure someone here will chime in as to what you should do to prevent it from happening the next time you close the cylinder, so dont close it yet!!!!!
 
Master Blaster, that primer doesn't look like any of the other spent primers I've fired out of any of my other revolvers. Granted that's a small number, but even on the other spent mystery rounds, the hits didn't have that rise on them. I'll post some comparison pics after work today. I'm ruling out your suggestion, I just think something funky happened with that round.

jmm
 
Recessed hammer nose bushing??

The fired primer looks suspiciously like there is a raised area ( the shiny spot aound the firing pin strike) that exactly matches the size of the hammer nose bushing (sometimes erroneously referred to as the firing pin bushing). The bushing is supposed to sit flush or even slightly proud of the recoil plate. If it is recessed, even a few thousandths, then a hot round will cause the primer to flow lightly into the recess and lock up the cylinder as you described. I experienced the same problem on a 25-2 about a year ago. I cured it by replacing the bushing (it is a press fit into the frame). While researching the problem I found that S&W had a recall on a run of guns to replace the bushing because the ones installed at the factory were undersized. If memory serves me correctly the recalled guns were 686-2 models. Call S&W to verify.
 
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jaybar, yah the area around the firing pin strike. That's what separates that cartridge from all the rest I've examined that were fired from that revolver. I also went back through all the spent .38 brass I've got to see if I could find a similar raised area, but could not.

Master Blaster, I appreciate the help, didn't mean to make out like I didn't take your suggestion seriously. I tried what you said, but the ejector rod fit seems to be very tight. I would have to use a firm grip and a good amount of torque to loosen it right now.

I've reexamined all the rounds I shot yesterday, minus the Magtech standard pressure ones. (Aluminum cased, I didn't keep the spent cartridges). The Federal cartridges along the bottom of that photo were +P Nyclad. The other eleven were the mystery ammo. The one sitting off by itself is the round that got stuck. Several of them have odd looking primer strikes, compared to what I'm used to seeing.

I know the Federal rounds were factory, and they didn't feel as hot as the mystery rounds did.

1125.jpg
 
to me, it looks like those primers were doing everything they possibly could to get the heck away from the powder and bullet.
 
How old were those Corbons supposed to have been? Years back (early 90s), I'm fairly certain the 9mm Corbon I used was in R-P cases.
 
How old were those Corbons supposed to have been?

Titus, not sure, but I know they weren't new.

jmm
 
No Problem,

I dont trust corbon ammo. I know plenty of folks swear by it, but I had a real bad experience with their .38spl +p ammo. It was jumping the crip big time when I fired it out of my 642. I called them and complained, their response was that it was normal for their ammo to jump the crimp and tie up a gun after firing 2 or 3 rounds out of a 5 round cylinder.:barf: But they would make it right by sending me 2 boxes of loosely crimped ammo to replace the one I had, if I mailed it back to them.

No I have shot other +p .38 ammo which penetrated just as far in newspaper, and did not have the crimp jumping problem, in fact my own reloads with hornady XTP bullets did as well as the corbons, and held their crimp just fine.

Corbon AMMO NO THANKS.

JMEYMMV
 
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