So I was out the other day just driving around. I spotted some cartridge cases laying on the ground, so I stopped and picked them up. several common cases, but I found one that I have never seen before. I looked online, but I couldn't find anything that matches. I measured it, the case is 1.392" long, with a inner mouth diameter of .380", the head of the case measures .472". its really short to be a rifle round, but I can not find a rimless bottle neck case anywhere near these dimensions. at .380 i.d. that seems a bit large for a 9mm, but maybe. and its to small for a 40 cal. this isn't something that I need a definite answer on immediately. but if I can find out what it is from, maybe I can ask around to see who might own a firearm that this comes from. because frankly, I would like to shoot it!
Mystery Case
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herrwalther
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300 black has a base of .376. Smaller than whatever this is.
Closest thing I can find in my Lee manual based on your measurements is 38-40 Winchester. 0.400" case mouth, OAL 1.305 and .470 head.
caribou
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.30 Luger fired through a 9MM? Ive done that, and the Luger made a funny 'Pop'. 7.62x21
Maybe a 7.63Mauser or its twin 7.62Tokarov shot through a 9mm Broomhandle Mauser. 7.62 (or 3) x 25mm long untill the shoulders and neck are stretched.
Maybe a 7.63Mauser or its twin 7.62Tokarov shot through a 9mm Broomhandle Mauser. 7.62 (or 3) x 25mm long untill the shoulders and neck are stretched.
Bwana John
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Hand made 45acp shot shell, made from cut down 308(7.62 nato) brass (note military head stamp, case mouth ~.380”, and .472” case head diameter)
You cut the 308 case to length, put the cut down case into a 40 cal die to create a shoulder to headspace on, add powder, over powder card, shot, over shot card (a .375 gas check upside down works well), and a crimp (.357 seating die) to hold the overshot card in and seal with something like nail polish.
Devastating at less than 10 feet, holes in the pattern you could drive a semi through at 20 feet.
Do it right and it will cycle through a semi auto.
The military made them for survival type ammo.
Also made for Thompson submachine gun for riot control.
You cut the 308 case to length, put the cut down case into a 40 cal die to create a shoulder to headspace on, add powder, over powder card, shot, over shot card (a .375 gas check upside down works well), and a crimp (.357 seating die) to hold the overshot card in and seal with something like nail polish.
Devastating at less than 10 feet, holes in the pattern you could drive a semi through at 20 feet.
Do it right and it will cycle through a semi auto.
The military made them for survival type ammo.
Also made for Thompson submachine gun for riot control.
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Bwana John
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The rounds in the picture below cycle (fire, extract, eject, cock, feed from the magazine, chamber, lock up to in battery), and do it again a 1911, a 16 lb recoil spring is needed to lock the slide back open after the last shot.
It appears the one you found would not cycle through a 1911, they are too long.
Possibly the ones you found were for a 45 acp revolver left longer for a bigger payload, or someone who did not take into account that the ejector tip to front of the ejection port during ejection is what limits overall case length (after firing!)… not the overall length of the ejection port and unfired shorter crimped round. Extended ejectors limit the OAL even more.
Jigs made from 3D printing to cut 308/7.62 brass down to the correct length using a mini Harbor Freight chop saw are available on flea bay.
It appears the one you found would not cycle through a 1911, they are too long.
Possibly the ones you found were for a 45 acp revolver left longer for a bigger payload, or someone who did not take into account that the ejector tip to front of the ejection port during ejection is what limits overall case length (after firing!)… not the overall length of the ejection port and unfired shorter crimped round. Extended ejectors limit the OAL even more.
Jigs made from 3D printing to cut 308/7.62 brass down to the correct length using a mini Harbor Freight chop saw are available on flea bay.
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AlexanderA
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You can use a similar process to make blank (or shotshell) cartridges for lever-action rifles.
When I was doing Civil War reenacting, I had to figure out how to make blanks that would work in my reproduction Henry rifle (.44-40 cal.). I couldn't simply use .44-40 brass, because the overall length would be too short and the mechanism would jam. I ended up using the long .444 Marlin cases, cut down to the .44-40 overall length, run through the .44-40 sizing die, and crimped. (These also work in .45 LC guns.)
"Hand made 45acp shot shell" oh, ok. I guess the 45acp shot shell thing would explain the military brass head stamp. that's pretty cool.
"You can use a similar process to make blank (or shotshell) cartridges for lever-action rifles." REALLY?! So how would you do that for a 45-70? I had thought about trying a .410 shot shell, but I am not brave enough to try to blow up a gun, or end up in the hospital. I am severely allergic to pain!
"You can use a similar process to make blank (or shotshell) cartridges for lever-action rifles." REALLY?! So how would you do that for a 45-70? I had thought about trying a .410 shot shell, but I am not brave enough to try to blow up a gun, or end up in the hospital. I am severely allergic to pain!
Archie
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.472" case head is the size of the .30-06, .308 Win, .45 ACP and those deriving therefrom.
1.392 inches is 35mm suggesting (to me) a shortened 9x39mm case. Except I don't know of such a thing.
Starting from the head size, it seems to be necked down somewhat, possibly in the 9mm range.
Any clues on the head stamp?
1.392 inches is 35mm suggesting (to me) a shortened 9x39mm case. Except I don't know of such a thing.
Starting from the head size, it seems to be necked down somewhat, possibly in the 9mm range.
Any clues on the head stamp?
AlexanderA
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You would have to find a case that was as long (or longer) than a bulleted .45-70 cartridge, with the same head diameter. I doubt that such a thing exists.
Bwana John
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- TW Twin City Ordnance Plant (1942–1945; 1950–1957; 1965–1976; 2002–2005) – Minneapolis
- While 308, 30-06, and 45 acp have the same case head diameter, the extraction grooves are different. Do not use 30-06 for 45 acp shotshells, 30-06 is narrower and it may break the 45’s extractor.
Jim Watson
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Sure it does. .45-70 OAL 2.65", more usually 2.5" for Marlins.
.45 2 4/10" Sharps - .45-90 Winchester might work, .45 2 6/10" Sharps brass surely would.
Bwana John
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Isn’t there a 45-90, a 45-110, and a 45-120?
I would use a full length plastic 410 shotgun fingered wad for the shot in a rifle shot shell of that size. The rifling is not conducive to great shot patterning. You also don’t want the overall length at the front of the blown out fired case (where you created the bullet shape ) to extend into the rifling, the rifleing is impressed into the brass when firing and may not be easy to extract without a rod. Do not overanneal for the same reason, soft brass gets sticky to extract if it gets anywhere close to the rifling. This goes for 45 acp shotshells also.
Cast Boolits websight has a form dedicated to making metallic shot shells
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?253-Shot-Loads-For-Pistols
I would use a full length plastic 410 shotgun fingered wad for the shot in a rifle shot shell of that size. The rifling is not conducive to great shot patterning. You also don’t want the overall length at the front of the blown out fired case (where you created the bullet shape ) to extend into the rifling, the rifleing is impressed into the brass when firing and may not be easy to extract without a rod. Do not overanneal for the same reason, soft brass gets sticky to extract if it gets anywhere close to the rifling. This goes for 45 acp shotshells also.
Cast Boolits websight has a form dedicated to making metallic shot shells
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?253-Shot-Loads-For-Pistols
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rabid wombat
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https://www.perfectshotllc.com/product/45-70-blanks-with-smoke-full-load/ Blanks for a variety of cartridges….
NIGHTLORD40K
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Probably not what the OP is dealing with, but the Russian military does have a 9X39 special purpose cartridge. There are several loads including subsonic and AP.
trackskippy
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Its not an 8.6 BLK is it? Whats that headstamp read? Its to small to see.
Bwana John
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The real thing, I don’t know if TW ever made them
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