NAA The Pug .22 Mag vs. NAA .22 Mag mini revolver

[Gordon_Freeman]

Has anyone tried the new laser attachment for the NAA mini revolvers? I just can't hit a target with these guns.

 

[JFrame]

I don't see how shooting a mini revolver with a 2" barrel would be different from shooting a J-frame with the same barrel in the same caliber. Some of the NAA line do have a usable sight, so the accuracy should improve.

batjka -- if you're addressing that statement to me, I certainly do think that a Black Widow with either the Novak or Millett sights has the potential to match the accuracy of a J-frame snub (assuming, as you say, the same caliber). The BW also has a more usable grip than some of the other minis. Shooting without a rest, the advantage will still favor the heavier J-frames (heck -- even my 9.9 ounce 337PD is about 30 percent heavier than my BW!) -- but off of a rest, the BW can be surprisingly accurate.

The sight options degrade significantly with the smaller fixed-sight minis -- but as GEM said, they are what they are.


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[JFrame]

Has anyone tried the new laser attachment for the NAA mini revolvers? I just can't hit a target with these guns.

No -- but it may wind up on my Christmas "wish list."


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[shiftyer1]

I just fired mine today, it shoots a little low but after 6 shots I got it sighted in for center of milk jug from 15 feet of so. The factory grips actually aren't to bad. I think with some practice it'll be alot of fun.

 

[stinger 327]

Has anyone tried the new laser attachment for the NAA mini revolvers? I just can't hit a target with these guns.

I have the Laserlyte on my .22/.22 Mag Mini Master. Still in the process of adjustment and have to find a indoor range but as far as using the .22 Mag, I'll stick with th .22 LR because the recoil of the .22 mag is causing the laser sight to become loose as well as the new locking pin NAA just installed.
Maybe in time the .22LR recoil will also make the laser sight loose I don't know yet.

 

[stinger 327]

Tough call...With the .22LR mini, I'm inclined to stick with the standard bird's head grips (mine are the black rubber, which provide a bit of extra "tacky" surface). I'm thinking with the .22LR mini, you're looking for maximum concealability versus trying to squeeze out a little bit extra stability and accuracy.

Just IMHO...


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I agree with the standard rosewood grips you get the best concealability which is what these guns are for up front and point blank

 

[MCgunner]

I prefer the folding holster grip for mine for several reasons. Now, to deploy, if you practice, it can be quite fast. I can deploy mine IN my pocket if I have it stuck muzzle down in my Blackhawk No 4 pocket holster that I carry my P11 Kel Tec in. It allows for a full grip of the gun and gives much better point shooting.

As to accuracy with the sights, my two standard 1 7/8 ounce guns will shoot accurate enough at a full 25 yards, but the sights are rough to acquire and slow and the range isn't going to be 25 yards in any rate. I CAN and have shot rabbit at 20 yards and a snake's head from 10 ft with the little 1 7/8" .22LR, though. For that I had time to use the sights and I didn't happen to have a more suitable weapon on me at the time. Actually, since the little .22 is an always gun, it's taken lots of critters like possum and coon around the place. I'm quite confident with it IF I have light and can see the friggin' sights on that thing.

The BW I carry every Sunday as my church gun so as to be totally unnoticable in a suit pocket is quite able to shoot 3.5" 5 shot groups to POA at 25 yards off a rest. That's almost as good as my M85SSUL Taurus ultralight and my Radom P64 and every bit as good as my Kel Tec P11 9x19 which is quite accurate, too. Anything that will hold 4" at 25 off a rest is a good self defense accurate gun IMHO. After all, holding them up to each other, the sight radius of the BW isn't THAT much shorter than the little Taurus. But, what's really good about the BW for self defense is that the longer, flat, wide top of the barrel on the BW makes it easier than the smaller guns to point shoot from 3-7 yards. Other than having to cock the thing, which I do instincively, it's about as fast on target as a DA revolver, but you do have to practice that single action hammer cock. I started out over 40 years ago with SA guns, though, so it's sort of natural for me. Heck, I've drawn DA guns before to shoot in a hurry and cocked the friggin' hammer not really intending to, but I was on auto pilot. Fortunately, I don't seem to try that with guns that don't have hammers, the auto pistols, anyway.

Anyway, I consider the BW as a viable defense gun just on my abillity to hit with it. No, I'd rather have my .38 or my 9x19 if I got in a gun fight, but I know I can put a shot where it counts FAST with the BW. That's why it's a primary gun for me on special occasions and my little .22 just rides as back up to whatever I'm carrying for a primary. Certainly ain't the power of the cartridge that gets it the vote, but that is considerably more than .22LR. I have not yet been able to get some of the new Hornady Critical Defense in .22 mag, yet, either, for testing, but CCI shoots to POA in my gun with the reported accuracy. The little fart seems to be quite picky about what it likes, though, and the Hornady 30 grain +V is maypop in the gun, so I want to test a couple of boxes of that new Hornady before switching to it, if I do. I think a well placed bullet is more important than advertizing hype, after all.

I've played with that little .22LR for 25 years now and fully know my capabillities with it. It's a good little back up, but the BW is MUCH easier to make hits with fast, either with the sights or point shooting, at least with me shooting them. All three of mine have the folding holster grips. I really like this addition. Even my BW sports the holster grip.

BTW, with MY mitts, the standard grip is all, but unusable. I recently had to buy a wedding ring......and I had to special order it 'cause no one has a size 13 around here. I didn't realize I was THAT special.

 

[stinger 327]

I prefer the folding holster grip for mine for several reasons. Now, to deploy, if you practice, it can be quite fast. I can deploy mine IN my pocket if I have it stuck muzzle down in my Blackhawk No 4 pocket holster that I carry my P11 Kel Tec in. It allows for a full grip of the gun and gives much better point shooting.

As to accuracy with the sights, my two standard 1 7/8 ounce guns will shoot accurate enough at a full 25 yards, but the sights are rough to acquire and slow and the range isn't going to be 25 yards in any rate. I CAN and have shot rabbit at 20 yards and a snake's head from 10 ft with the little 1 7/8" .22LR, though. For that I had time to use the sights and I didn't happen to have a more suitable weapon on me at the time. Actually, since the little .22 is an always gun, it's taken lots of critters like possum and coon around the place. I'm quite confident with it IF I have light and can see the friggin' sights on that thing.

The BW I carry every Sunday as my church gun so as to be totally unnoticable in a suit pocket is quite able to shoot 3.5" 5 shot groups to POA at 25 yards off a rest. That's almost as good as my M85SSUL Taurus ultralight and my Radom P64 and every bit as good as my Kel Tec P11 9x19 which is quite accurate, too. Anything that will hold 4" at 25 off a rest is a good self defense accurate gun IMHO. After all, holding them up to each other, the sight radius of the BW isn't THAT much shorter than the little Taurus. But, what's really good about the BW for self defense is that the longer, flat, wide top of the barrel on the BW makes it easier than the smaller guns to point shoot from 3-7 yards. Other than having to cock the thing, which I do instincively, it's about as fast on target as a DA revolver, but you do have to practice that single action hammer cock. I started out over 40 years ago with SA guns, though, so it's sort of natural for me. Heck, I've drawn DA guns before to shoot in a hurry and cocked the friggin' hammer not really intending to, but I was on auto pilot. Fortunately, I don't seem to try that with guns that don't have hammers, the auto pistols, anyway.

Anyway, I consider the BW as a viable defense gun just on my abillity to hit with it. No, I'd rather have my .38 or my 9x19 if I got in a gun fight, but I know I can put a shot where it counts FAST with the BW. That's why it's a primary gun for me on special occasions and my little .22 just rides as back up to whatever I'm carrying for a primary. Certainly ain't the power of the cartridge that gets it the vote, but that is considerably more than .22LR. I have not yet been able to get some of the new Hornady Critical Defense in .22 mag, yet, either, for testing, but CCI shoots to POA in my gun with the reported accuracy. The little fart seems to be quite picky about what it likes, though, and the Hornady 30 grain +V is maypop in the gun, so I want to test a couple of boxes of that new Hornady before switching to it, if I do. I think a well placed bullet is more important than advertizing hype, after all.

I've played with that little .22LR for 25 years now and fully know my capabillities with it. It's a good little back up, but the BW is MUCH easier to make hits with fast, either with the sights or point shooting, at least with me shooting them. All three of mine have the folding holster grips. I really like this addition. Even my BW sports the holster grip.

View attachment 544502

I didn't know Hornady made Critical Defense in .22 Mag. Do they have it in .22LR?
If you use the mini revolver for its intended use for personal protection you probably won't use your sights anyway rather you will likely end up point shooting. Some of those fixed sights on the smaller .22LR and .22Mag are almost non existent.
That's one of the reasons I put a Laserlyte on the Mini Master as it does have a sight but it doesn't work well at all. I can only adjust for elevation and haven't had any luck with that and for windage I understand you have to use a tool to hit it.

 

[MCgunner]

You can use a punch to get windage on with the dovetailed Novaks like my BW (see pic) has. I just have to hold a weird sight picture with my super companion, but can hit with it. The .22 I filed down to hit POA with Federal Lightening, which seems to work best in the little gun.

Hornady just put the .22 mag critical defense on their site a couple months ago. No .22LR as yet. I was told by a LGS just today that it could be several more months before it hits the shelves. Check out Hornady's site, impressive hype there and a jello pick of it penetrating about to the same depth as their .380 CD ammo. IF it works in MY gun, I'll use it, but like I say, good hits and going bang every time are of most importance. And, at least in .22 mag, the critical defense is affordable.

 

[MCgunner]

Here ya go....

http://www.hornady.com/store/22-WMR-45gr-Critical-Defense

 

[JFrame]

As to accuracy with the sights, my two standard 1 7/8 ounce guns will shoot accurate enough at a full 25 yards, but the sights are rough to acquire and slow and the range isn't going to be 25 yards in any rate. I CAN and have shot rabbit at 20 yards and a snake's head from 10 ft with the little 1 7/8" .22LR, though. For that I had time to use the sights and I didn't happen to have a more suitable weapon on me at the time. Actually, since the little .22 is an always gun, it's taken lots of critters like possum and coon around the place. I'm quite confident with it IF I have light and can see the friggin' sights on that thing.

MC -- you are simply awesome, my friend!

I can only apply myself to hope I can shoot HALF as well as you someday...

BTW -- I just want to acknowledge MCgunner as the reference source I relied on to make the decision to buy my own Black Widow...

As far as your ring size goes -- I might start calling you "Gulliver"...


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[stinger 327]

You can use a punch to get windage on with the dovetailed Novaks like my BW (see pic) has. I just have to hold a weird sight picture with my super companion, but can hit with it. The .22 I filed down to hit POA with Federal Lightening, which seems to work best in the little gun.

Hornady just put the .22 mag critical defense on their site a couple months ago. No .22LR as yet. I was told by a LGS just today that it could be several more months before it hits the shelves. Check out Hornady's site, impressive hype there and a jello pick of it penetrating about to the same depth as their .380 CD ammo. IF it works in MY gun, I'll use it, but like I say, good hits and going bang every time are of most importance. And, at least in .22 mag, the critical defense is affordable.

Ok I got this mixed up. I do have Hornady .22 MAG rated at 30 grains at 2,200 fps but they aren't Critical Defense kind.
For the .22 LR There is Aguila which is the hottest .22LR around rated at 1,750 fps.
I agree with you it has to go bang and with the .22 LR rimless caliber it doesn't always go bang which is why in revolver form is better because you just pull the trigger till a cartridge goes off. If that happens with the auto everything stops.

 

[stinger 327]

Here ya go....

http://www.hornady.com/store/22-WMR-45gr-Critical-Defense

These rounds are different than the .22 Mag rounds I have which are pointed and sharp. So now we have something new to play with.
I have CD in all the other calibers. .38, 9mm, .357, .40 and .45 ACP.

 

[MCgunner]

Ok I got this mixed up. I do have Hornady .22 MAG rated at 30 grains at 2,200 fps but they aren't Critical Defense kind.

Yeah, the stuff I tried is the Hornady +v 30 grain designed for varmint hunting with a rifle. The new CD ammo uses a 45 grain bullet. That 30 grain stuff wouldn't even hit paper at 25 when it did go bang, either, way off POA. If it misfired, happened every cylinder with at least one, it'd always bang on the next hammer fall, so the ammo just seems to have tough rims.

As to .22 not going bang, I change my ammo, especially in summer, every week. In a hot, sweaty pocket, the stuff will go dud on you after a month or so in my experience. I get always bangs in the little NAA by doing this, very low risk of a click when the trigger is pulled. But, yeah, rimfire is susceptible to moisture in a sweaty pocket. I just take these rounds that I've rotated out of the mini and fire 'em off at the range.

The magnum gun, I rotate the rounds out about every 3 months since I only carry it on Sundays and every now and then for a special occasion. I sorta trust it more, but haven't proven that it's more moisture resistant than the .22LR's heal seated bullets, yet. I suspect it is more resistant, but I wanna prove that before I believe it. Anyway, heck, I rotate out (or actually SHOOT) my centerfire carry ammo more often than that.

 

[stinger 327]

Yeah, the stuff I tried is the Hornady +v 30 grain designed for varmint hunting with a rifle. The new CD ammo uses a 45 grain bullet. That 30 grain stuff wouldn't even hit paper at 25 when it did go bang, either, way off POA. If it misfired, happened every cylinder with at least one, it'd always bang on the next hammer fall, so the ammo just seems to have tough rims.

As to .22 not going bang, I change my ammo, especially in summer, every week. In a hot, sweaty pocket, the stuff will go dud on you after a month or so in my experience. I get always bangs in the little NAA by doing this, very low risk of a click when the trigger is pulled. But, yeah, rimfire is susceptible to moisture in a sweaty pocket. I just take these rounds that I've rotated out of the mini and fire 'em off at the range.

The magnum gun, I rotate the rounds out about every 3 months since I only carry it on Sundays and every now and then for a special occasion. I sorta trust it more, but haven't proven that it's more moisture resistant than the .22LR's heal seated bullets, yet. I suspect it is more resistant, but I wanna prove that before I believe it. Anyway, heck, I rotate out (or actually SHOOT) my centerfire carry ammo more often than that.

What is the life of a .22 LR round? What is the best conditions it should be stored?
Which is the best brand or most dependable?

 

[MCgunner]

CCI is the most consistantly primed, but the little NAA and some of my other rimfires do fine with Federal. BUT, in my Ruger Mk 2 in particular, Federals will click occasionally. I think it's the width of the firing pin, more prone to missing the priming in an inconsistantly primed rim. I have an old Ramline Exactor (don't laugh ) that is maypop with Federal and always goes bang with CCI.

All heal seated .22 ammo, that'd be short through LR, are susceptible to moisture, though. I've had CCI on the shelf for over 20 years that was fine, so long as it was stored in the AC. It's hot and humid down here in the summer and if stored out in the shop, it will eventually deteriorate after not too many years. But, a sweaty pocket is about the worst environment imagineable for heal seated bullets. After a month carried daily, I can assure you there will be misfires. Changing 'em out each week, they're fine.

 

[shiftyer1]

I wouldn't mind gettin the old style holster grip because it looks like it covers the barrel also, but I understand they're discontinued.

 

[MCgunner]

Yep, old style holster grips are gone, but the good thing is the new ones don't scar up the frame like the old ones did. Look at the pick of mine. It's been opened and closed for 25 years now.

Also, the new ones lock a little more securely and are less fragile, though my old one has never broken the catch.

 

[stinger 327]

CCI is the most consistantly primed, but the little NAA and some of my other rimfires do fine with Federal. BUT, in my Ruger Mk 2 in particular, Federals will click occasionally. I think it's the width of the firing pin, more prone to missing the priming in an inconsistantly primed rim. I have an old Ramline Exactor (don't laugh ) that is maypop with Federal and always goes bang with CCI.

All heal seated .22 ammo, that'd be short through LR, are susceptible to moisture, though. I've had CCI on the shelf for over 20 years that was fine, so long as it was stored in the AC. It's hot and humid down here in the summer and if stored out in the shop, it will eventually deteriorate after not too many years. But, a sweaty pocket is about the worst environment imagineable for heal seated bullets. After a month carried daily, I can assure you there will be misfires. Changing 'em out each week, they're fine.

So heat is the enemy?
Just think leaving the .22 LR in the car on hot summer days?

It's too bad my S & W Mod. 617 can't shoot the CCI Stingers. After 10 shots it jams the cylinder. Otherwise I like CCI ammo and the casings are clean and shiny.
The Aguila ammo smells funny and smokes. The brass doesn't look as great as the CCI but there is a little more kick in the Aguila over the CCI Stinger.

 

[shiftyer1]

Stinger, I think most people shhot thru their .22 ammo before heat and humidy in the car will ruin it. I keep a 550 round box in the truck year round in central texas without a problem but it gets changed out 2 or 3 times a year at least just from plinking. Of course thats in the cardboard box and not in a wet sweaty pocket! It's not as humid here as on the coast either.

 

[isc]

I've never seen a mouse shoot any type of gun or seen anyone shoot any type of gun at a mouse. I use my NAA in a holster grip and wear it when jogging or while engaged in other strenuous activities in lightweight clothing. the pug can't be used with the holster grip.

Te holster grip for the .22 mag doesn't cover the barrel and allows lint and other junk to get in the barrel. The .22lr version covers the barrel.

 

[MCgunner]

There is no barrel coverage on the .22LR anymore, either. They've gone to the new design holster grips.

So heat is the enemy?
Just think leaving the .22 LR in the car on hot summer days?

It's the humidity, expecially when carried in a sweaty pocket. However, I don't leave .22s in my vehicles, either, ever since when I was a college kid, a box of Remington Thunderbolt glued itself together from the melted lubricant. .22LR is externally lubed, the lead ones, anyway. I'm not sure about lube on the copper plated stuff. Heat is NOT good for 'em, either, though, but mostly because of the external lubing. It gets HOT in south Texas in the summer, especially inside a car. And, on the coast at least, the humidity is normally well over 70 percent.

 

[Hoppes Love Potion]

I use the Black Widow for my everyday carry piece in Florida. It really works well as a compromise. Easily concealed even in flimsy shorts & shirt. Stainless steel handles the humidity well. I haven't done a lot of long-distance shooting, but with .22 LR I can hit quarter-sized targets all day long from 10 feet.

With the .22Mag cylinder, it's got quite a pop. Seems to do about 2x the damage as the same gun with the best LR ammo. Not the greatest SD round in the world but I think it can be quite effective.

 

[stinger 327]

I use the Black Widow for my everyday carry piece in Florida. It really works well as a compromise. Easily concealed even in flimsy shorts & shirt. Stainless steel handles the humidity well. I haven't done a lot of long-distance shooting, but with .22 LR I can hit quarter-sized targets all day long from 10 feet.

With the .22Mag cylinder, it's got quite a pop. Seems to do about 2x the damage as the same gun with the best LR ammo. Not the greatest SD round in the world but I think it can be quite effective.

At ten feet do you use the factory sights on the Black Widow or do you point shoot?
The .22 Mag is devistating except on the Mini Master I have the recoil of the .22 mag causes the pin to come out and this pin is newly installed by NAA which is a locking pin.
My other NAA .22 mag mini shoots only .22 Mag but I don't have a problem with the pin loosening up or coming out.

 

[Hoppes Love Potion]

I have 2 pellet traps in my garage. One has steel targets, the large ones a bit larger than a quarter and the small ones about the size of a nickel. With slow aimed fire using the sights, I often hit 5/5.

There's also a wooden trap backed with a thick layer of duct putty. On this I stick reactive paper targets and do my point shooting. Generally I shoot fast and make small corrections until I'm on the bull.