Nagant M1895 Revolver: Underrated stopper?

[22-rimfire]

Change that to S&W and you have my approval.

 

[Owen Sparks]

Small puncture wounds may turn deadly after a time but in a real gunfight you want immediate stopping power. Only large diamiter bullets can provide that at handgun velocities.

 

[A Person]

I actually meant to put Smith & Taurus, but I meant EITHER the Smith or the Taurus, haha. Around here, used model 10's aren't very common sadly.

 

[ahil925]

Is there a military suprlus handgun that fite THIS Bill?: Doesn't overpenetrate like 7.62x25, has more stopping power than 9x18 Makarov, accurate, reliable, 300 dollars at most?

Your exclusion of 9x18 is kinda limiting, but there do exist handguns that meet your criteria. There are the used Taurus and S&W that other have mentioned, If you can find them in your area for the right price (i sure as hell can't). SOG has Croation PHP MV9 9x19mm for ~$190, CDNN sports has various Taurus and Keltec pistols that meet your power and price. If you're lucky you can find a Ruger P-85 to P-95 for under $300.

 

[Ash]

The Nagant with 32 H&R Mag is a potent revolver, better than a 38S&W - they'd make a good trail revolver.

The Croatian PHP 9mm is a high-cap predecessor to the XD line of handguns, kind of a P38 updated to Beretta 92 standards - a real odd ball but a potent and cheap handgun that will be in really great shape.

 

[natman]

It's effective. There are numerous mass graves containing many thousands sculls with hole in back to prove the point. This along with Walther PPK was used by NKVD execution squads.

Perhaps you'd like to share your technique for getting the guy who broke into your house to assume the position so you can shoot him in the back of the head.

A Nagant would be better than nothing for self defense, but not by much. It's a neat artifact, an interesting side note in the history of revolver development, but for any practical use you'd be far better off with an S&W Model 10.

 

[Ash]

"A Nagant would be better than nothing for self defense, but not by much."

That's an exaggeration to the extreme. A Nagant is far more revolver than nothing, is more powerful than any pocket pistol caliber like 32acp or 380. It has more power than the bulk of revolvers made by S&W or others in 1900. I agree, a S&W Model 10 in 38 Special is better, but not in power. A Nagant in 32H&R has as much power as many 38 Special loads and more power than the once champ 38S&W. It is as or more powerful than the official combat handgun rounds of France, Britain, or Japan in WWII and is superior to the 9mm Makarov or the 32acp - the chosen police round of Europe for almost a century and beats the 38 Colt used by US forces before changing to the 45acp. Who is undergunned by 7 rounds of 38 Special-equivalent ammo? At self-defense distances, a Nagant is fully potent and capable with proper ammo. The revolvers are light, slim, and pretty idiot-proof to boot.

Now, there are many features not ideal with a Nagant. The double action is heavy, clunky, and likely to make you pull your shot. Not a problem in a room or at self-defense distances, but certainly if the baddie is far enough away, single-action is preferable. 7 rounds beats 6 rounds, but reloading a Nagant makes keeping a second one handy a better notion. If 7 rounds don't work, you're screwed with a Nagant. Of course, 6 rounds in a S&W Model 10 aren't going to reload like magic, so if the baddie is the room with you, you're screwed one way or the other. Yet many folks carry snub 38's with 5 rounds that provide no greater power and two fewer rounds than a Nagant and many here recommend some of those revolvers.

The S&W Model 10, especially a good used one, makes a better revolver for many reasons (and price can be very nice). I agree 100% with that. It will have a vastly better trigger, equal or better sights, and has a very solid reputation. Yet, there is nothing weak about the Nagant round. Those who claim otherwise are comparing weak target loads. Considering the Nagant safely fires 32H&R Mag rounds, as a revolver it can be just as powerful as many currently used self-defense rounds, more powerful than many others.

What might I say about how worthless a 12ga shotgun is if I only load it with skeet rounds?

Even so, I would never personally recommend a Nagant revolver for self-defense. Way too many really good 38 Special revolvers are around to recommend a Nagant. The revolver itself has many issues that make it less-than-ideal and frankly I'd say get one of those police-trade in Taurus revolvers, they are the same price but better in most ways than the Nagant. But if the Nagant is to be lambasted because it is weak, then the Mak, Walther PP, or even a S&W Model 10 in 38 S&W are even worse.

 

[natman]

"A Nagant would be better than nothing for self defense, but not by much."

That's an exaggeration to the extreme. A Nagant is far more revolver than nothing, is more powerful than any pocket pistol caliber like 32acp or 380. It has more power than the bulk of revolvers made by S&W or others in 1900. I agree, a S&W Model 10 in 38 Special is better, but not in power. A Nagant in 32H&R has as much power as many 38 Special loads and more power than the once champ 38S&W. It is as or more powerful than the official combat handgun rounds of France, Britain, or Japan in WWII and is superior to the 9mm Makarov or the 32acp - the chosen police round of Europe for almost a century and beats the 38 Colt used by US forces before changing to the 45acp. Who is undergunned by 7 rounds of 38 Special-equivalent ammo? At self-defense distances, a Nagant is fully potent and capable with proper ammo. The revolvers are light, slim, and pretty idiot-proof to boot.

Now, there are many features not ideal with a Nagant. The double action is heavy, clunky, and likely to make you pull your shot. Not a problem in a room or at self-defense distances, but certainly if the baddie is far enough away, single-action is preferable. 7 rounds beats 6 rounds, but reloading a Nagant makes keeping a second one handy a better notion. If 7 rounds don't work, you're screwed with a Nagant. Of course, 6 rounds in a S&W Model 10 aren't going to reload like magic, so if the baddie is the room with you, you're screwed one way or the other. Yet many folks carry snub 38's with 5 rounds that provide no greater power and two fewer rounds than a Nagant and many here recommend some of those revolvers.

The S&W Model 10, especially a good used one, makes a better revolver for many reasons (and price can be very nice). I agree 100% with that. It will have a vastly better trigger, equal or better sights, and has a very solid reputation. Yet, there is nothing weak about the Nagant round. Those who claim otherwise are comparing weak target loads. Considering the Nagant safely fires 32H&R Mag rounds, as a revolver it can be just as powerful as many currently used self-defense rounds, more powerful than many others.

What might I say about how worthless a 12ga shotgun is if I only load it with skeet rounds?

Even so, I would never personally recommend a Nagant revolver for self-defense. Way too many really good 38 Special revolvers are around to recommend a Nagant. The revolver itself has many issues that make it less-than-ideal and frankly I'd say get one of those police-trade in Taurus revolvers, they are the same price but better in most ways than the Nagant. But if the Nagant is to be lambasted because it is weak, then the Mak, Walther PP, or even a S&W Model 10 in 38 S&W are even worse.

I said it was better than nothing. I never commented on the point you disagree with, the power. The power is adequate, if only just so. It's the heavy trigger pull and slow reloading that make it a poor choice for self defense.

In fact if you take a deep breath and re-read my post you'll see that we pretty much agree on the Nagant's suitability. I'm not going to list all it's weaknesses again because you've done a fine job of it.

I''ll just sum it up with this quote:

Even so, I would never personally recommend a Nagant revolver for self-defense. Way too many really good 38 Special revolvers are around to recommend a Nagant.

Not much difference there from mine:

for any practical use you'd be far better off with an S&W Model 10.

 

[Ash]

"A Nagant would be better than nothing for self defense, but not by much."

A rock is better than nothing, but not by much. 7 rounds of ammo as powerful as many 38 Special rounds is hardly "better than nothing but not by much." Reloading a revolver at self-defense ranges? If reloading is a concern, then get a hi capacity 9mm - no revolver works. No revolver reloads all that quickly at self-defense ranges. If 7 rounds was not enough and you have to stop and reload, well, you're up the creek already.

Take a deep breath? Nah, just being objective. That was better than nothing, but perhaps not by much.

 

[CraigC]

It is better than nothing but I'd rather have (and would be better armed with) a good big bore single action.

 

[Ash]

As would I.

 

[The Teacher]

Chronograph Data

I noticed that no one ever posted chrono data on the milsurp ammo, so I grabbed this info from another forum.

7.62x38r 1970's Surplus
Bullet Weight: 82gr
Muzzle Velocity Avg: 1298 fps
Muzzle Energy: 307 ft/lbs

That's more powerful than .380, and right near 9x18 Makarov. One of the requirements of its design was that it had to take down a horse with a single shot at 25-35 meters. So it's no slouch, but I'd still rather have my .357 when it comes to protecting my backside

 

[PabloJ]

I have so many better things to throw $150 at.

I would not spend >$75 on one.

 

[gatorjames85]

7 rounds of ammo as powerful as many 38 Special rounds

There are many high quality SD loadings for .38 special, how many are there for 7.62 Nagant? There are many far better options for self defense, although I would feel better armed than I would with a .25 or .22.

 

[Cosmoline]

It's not ideal, but will work well enough if you have a strong finger. It's extremely durable. I'd want to be using the original FP hot loads for sure.

 

[DPris]

The Russian surplus from J&G I chronographed through one of my Nagants last year averaged 919 FPS.
Fiocchi wasn't much different.
The gun remains a poor choice for SD.
FMJ only, horrendible trigger, indifferent accuracy, extremely awkward & slow reloading process.
I wouldn't count on one to drop a horse with one shot unless the muzzle was resting on its forehead.
Denis

 

[gatorjames85]

I still want one, BTW, but that is due to a pathological attraction to outdated and unergonomic firearms that have a hammer and sickle on them.

 

[VancMike]

I sold mine to a person with an eastern European accent and a name ending with a vowel. But before I did so, I enjoyed the heck out of it, and shot probably 2-300 rounds through it.

It was reliable, never mis-fired, was slow to re-load, and who wants to shoot a horse anyway?

 

[The Teacher]

The Russian surplus from J&G I chronographed through one of my Nagants last year averaged 919 FPS.
Fiocchi wasn't much different.
The gun remains a poor choice for SD.
FMJ only, horrendible trigger, indifferent accuracy, extremely awkward & slow reloading process.
I wouldn't count on one to drop a horse with one shot unless the muzzle was resting on its forehead.
Denis

The surplus seems to vary based on bullet weight. I've seen two different loads from the surplus. 82gr at 1200-1300fps, and 105-106gr at 800-900fps. The old Fiocchi seems hotter than the new batches as well, but I haven't chrono'd it. Prvi Partisan isn't too peppy either.

Most definitely not an SD weapon unless you have nothing else from which to choose, but I still love shooting them. The target model is scary accurate at 25yds with the soviet B-1 target ammo, but it only averages about 475 fps. That would just make the horse angry. I can't bring myself to shoot my Belgian model. It has such a smooth action, but it's too old and pretty

 

[DPris]

The PRVI chronographed at 637 FPS.
Velocities are all over the map in the caliber, but all have some form of a lesser efficient FMJ bullet.
Nowhere did I say not to own one (I still have three), I just maintain they are a piss poor choice for SD.
Denis

 

[bainter1212]

Hmm....milsurp handguns.....how about a Star model B in 9mm???? Made in Spain, used by the Nazis, stored, refurbed and sold by the Soviets.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Wow! If the Nagant is considered good enough for defense, say similar to a .380, then I might have to re-evaluate the French 1935A 7.65 Long that I have. It bests the Nagant round by 50-100fps with a similar weight bullet.

 

[bainter1212]

I'd like to add....as far as I know, the Nagant revolver is the only revolver that can be suppressed. Cylinder seals to barrel. Makes it a great assassination weapon, because it also doesn't throw brass.

 

[CraigC]

The .32H&R beats it ballistically and with a better bullet. Not to mention VASTLY superior platforms.

 

[PabloJ]

I'd like to add....as far as I know, the Nagant revolver is the only revolver that can be suppressed. Cylinder seals to barrel. Makes it a great assassination weapon, because it also doesn't throw brass.

A .22 with subsonic solid is much better choice.