nasty winchester crimp

[roval]

what a frustrating loading session tonight. :banghead:

I was just planning on loading 100 rds of swc 45 acp with mixed brass when I encountered crimped Winchester 45 acp brass for the first time, I've picked up some surplus 45 acp in the range that had a crimp in the past but the primers would still go in albeit with some difficulty. this just mangled the primer making it difficult to remove from the shellplate.

wasted 5 primers, had difficulty trying to get it out of the shellholder , disrupted the rhythm (most worrisome for me) and then having to worry on how to make the primers inert(decided to keep in their plastic container, drench them in gun oil and keep them inside a nitrile glove).

I rechecked one of my boxes of WWB which I still occasionally use but those don't appear crimped. Any idea what kind of Winchester 45 ammo ammo has this crimp?

 

[joneb]

Could be Win clean using NT primers prone to backing out, so they crimped them. Just a guess, I find NT or non toxic loaded brass of all sorts some with enlarged flash holes, or small primer pockets. I never load ammo of mixed head stamps, to many inconsistencies.

 

[Jesse Heywood]

Doesn't the NT have small primers? I'm having a blond moment.

I would think it might be some military contract. There are still some special forces and other units that use Mr. Browning's fine handgun.

 

[Havok7416]

NT is indeed a small primer case. If you have those it can be a pain. I keep a bin full of any SPP .45 brass I come across and load it in a batch by itself.

 

[fguffey]

I encountered crimped Winchester 45 acp brass for the first time,

Winchester brass? I have Winchester brass, I would think there is something else on the case head that would help identify it.

F. Guffey

 

[moxie]

Military crimped Winchester usually has a WCC and the year on the case head, e.g., WCC-12.

You can remove the crimp. But I just use a Lee Autoprime hand priming tool and they go in without a problem. It's the best way to prime anyway. See:

http://www.amazon.com/Lee-LP90230-P...&qid=1433948467&sr=8-1&keywords=lee+autoprime

 

[ReloaderFred]

Remove the crimp and reload as usual. You'll lose them before they wear out......

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[roval]

this brass looked like new. I've picked up wcc brass and had no problem inserting primers there although sometimes it's tight . these looked commercial. I've attached pics . the first 2 are original and the deprimed one was already swaged .

the 2nd pic shows original, deprimed w/o swaging and swaged.

 

[ReloaderFred]

Yep, they're crimped alright. Just remove the crimp and reload.

When I first started reloading .45 acp about 40 years ago, all you could get was military surplus .45 acp brass. It was all crimped, and the expectation was that the crimps would have to be removed before repriming. Of course, I had already been reloading for about 11 years at that time and considered it just part of the routine, since I started reloading with the .30-06, and just about all the available brass was GI surplus. It's no big deal.

Fred

 

[Sunray]

Remove the crimp and the operative words are 'Remove the crimp'. Don't just try to ram in a new primer.
"...all you could get was..." That's a lot more than 40 years ago. snicker.

 

[rcmodel]

all you could get was military surplus .45 acp brass. It was all crimped,

Well may be?
But I have shot military .45 ACP brass, both GI ball, and National Match, for at least 50 years.

And I have never seen a crimped primer in any of it in all those years.

The first I ever heard of crimped .45 ACP was when the lead-free primers came along.

rc

 

[ReloaderFred]

I can send you some, RC. I've got a little of it on my bench right now.

Fred

 

[moxie]

I haven't seen any for a while so I did a quick check of 3 boxes of reloads with the bullets pointed down, making it easy to spot crimps.

I did find one. Headstamp is "FC 61". It's GI for sure.

ReloaderFred, what are some of your headstamps?

As I recall from the olden days, supposedly there were occasional runs of .45 with crimped cases intended for use in M3s and Thompsons, but I never did see a box marked to that effect. It makes some sense, even though I personally am unaware of a primer shaking loose in an M3 or Thompson. Who knows?

Why Winchester would be making them now and selling them on the commercial (not Class III) market is befuddling. Of course there is a lot of crimped WCC 9mm out there, even at Walmart. I've got several boxes of that.

 

[ljnowell]

Well may be?
But I have shot military .45 ACP brass, both GI ball, and National Match, for at least 50 years.

And I have never seen a crimped primer in any of it in all those years.

The first I ever heard of crimped .45 ACP was when the lead-free primers came along.

rc

I wish I could say the same. I have a small Baggie of crimped primer 45. I just toss it.

 

[fguffey]

I just use a Lee Autoprime hand priming tool and they go in without a problem. It's the best way to prime anyway

There is no shortage of hand primer systems around here, there is no shortage of bench mounted and press mounted primer systems either. I would not think of priming crimped cases without removing the crimp.

There is no shortage of leverage, most of my primers are Federal, I choose federal because I have been told they are the most powerful in the world, then there is that part about Federal being soft. My advise, if you are using a Lee hand primer with Federal primers remove the crimp. I can not imagine anyone forcing a primer into a crimped primer pocket.

When removing primers the reloader should be able to feel the primer being removed, I sort cases that have no resistance when removing primers.

F. Guffey

 

[Dudedog]

Looks like they are crimped.....
Hate them in 9mm cases, PITA now in .45s
Will have to watch for them.
One more thing to check when sorting brass.

And yes I can remove them from the 9mms, but usually I just toss them in the scrap bin.
Plenty of .223 crimps to remove, when the urge overpowers me.

 

[moxie]

fguffey,

I'd never force a primer in. With the Autoprime and a gentle touch, they seem to slip right in. There's just a better "feel" that you can't get with a press lever.

Note that this applies just to .45acp and 9mm, not to .223/5.56mm. With those, removing the crimp is mandatory. But an Autoprime still makes life easier.

I've produced many scores of thousands of rounds this way with the confidence to say, they all went bang. No problems!

 

[joneb]

Ammo manufactures tried a few things when loading NT, first with NT lg primers with enlarged flash holes, and before that they may have tried crimping and now we see NT with small primers. It really helps to inspect your brass these days.

 

[fguffey]

You can remove the crimp. But I just use a Lee Autoprime hand priming tool and they go in without a problem. It's the best way to prime anyway.

Moxie, forgive, "You can remove the crimp" I remove the crimp if the primer pocket has a crimp, I do not exercise an option. When reading your response I thought there were implied options, use a Lee Autoprime hand priming tool or remove the crimp.

One day I started out to bust a primer, I started with Lee equipment, I gave up and then started with RCBS. After 2+ hours I succeeded. It was not easy. I did not warn the wife, I thought I was far enough away. I did test 'failed to fire primers', I had help, he warned her.

F. Guffey

 

[moxie]

Not sure I understand, but to be clear, yes, I am saying either remove the crimp or use a hand primer. In other words, if you use a hand primer you don't need to remove the crimp. Not a single failure in over 25 years doing it this way. Lee or RCBS both work for me, but I like the Lee better.

 

[fguffey]

if you use a hand primer you don't need to remove the crimp.

R. Lee, in his book on modern reloading uses an example of a reloader that that was more than capable of crushing a primer along with the hand priming tool. He used both hands. Seems R. Lee did not think all that effort was necessary and the life of the tool was cut short.

I am told there are leverage advantages, one tool has more than another. I can not think of anything more scary when priming a case with 'a lot of leverage'. If R. Lee had a concern it was about primers. He did everything he could to protect the reloader from himself.

I do not get into that thing about soft primers, if primers are soft I would not want to get caught making an attempt shoving them into a primer pocket that is not properly prepared.

I have been told cases are soft, I have tested cases that were listed as suspect. Suspect could be too hard/brittle and or too soft. I retired cases to collectable because after firing them I was told there was mistakes made in the manufacturing process. Fooled me, I thought the cases were magnificent.

F. Guffey