Neal Waltz 22LR resizing die anyone try it?

[Bull Nutria]

this die bumps up the diameter of 22lr ammo and can reshape the nose or make a hollow pt in round nose ammo. it is said to add a little accuracy to bulk ammo. it screws in a regular hand reloading press.

Anyone on here familiar with this tool?
I have stock up on 22 ammo , a bunch of it is RN, I much prefer HP ammo for my rodent hunting??

any thoughts??

Bull

 

[farmerboy78]

I want one, but dang it's expensive!

 

[22250Rem]

Sounds very interesting but I'm unaware of them. Might be something worth having unless it's too expensive.

 

[chicharrones]

Is that like Paco Kelly's accurizer and nastinose?

 

[Bull Nutria]

Yes but different than pacos. Bumps up diameter of 22lr will make HP out of RN.

 

[Steve Cover]

Back in 2012, I posted this to another site.
Here is a slightly edited copy of that post.

Accurizing 22 Rimfire Ammunition - Do the bullet modification kits really work?

I've been involved in several discussions about the 22 long rifle on a couple of the discussion group sites that I visit.
There is some interest in bullet modification.
Since we are resizing and swaging bullets, I figure that a reloading thread would be interested and have valuable opinions and suggestions for my project.
Having just updated to a Volquartsen match target grade barrel on my 10-22, I decided that I was in a position to do a series of tests using both my 10-22 and my old Remington 211 that I got for my 6th birthday 60 years ago.
Do these devices make any significant difference in accuracy?
Is there any difference in the amount of improvement (if any) between an older well used sporter chamber and bore and a new target grade barrel?
Seeing an opportunity to do a lot of shooting, I've decided to do a modest field test this summer.
I've had one of Poco Kelly's Acu’rzr die sets for several years, but never did much with it.

I did some investigating and found two other gunsmiths that make 22 bullet resizing sets.
A full set from each of them was purchased and enough ammunition to do a reasonable test using the same lots of ammunition for all of the different sizing dies and bullet tip forming rods.

I've divided the test into two factions, Standard Speed Target and High Speed Hunting ammunition.

My current plan is to shoot four, five shot groups off a solid bench rest at 50 yards to determine average accuracy for each variation tested, and five rounds tested each for penetration and expansion.
All will be chronographed.

Pre-production photo showing material to be used.

This is a better view of the die sets.

Part 1 ... More to come
Steve

 

[Steve Cover]

The tools

Paco Kelly Acu’rzr

My first tool was the Paco Kelly Acu'rzr bought back in 2007.
I casually played with it for a while, but always put a serious test on the back burner (until now)

Paco Kelly
PO Box 1170
Cortaro, AZ 85652

http://www.leverguns.com/store/acurizer.htm

Paco's kit is the simplest and least expensive.
Bullet expansion is accomplished by striking the nose form rod with a mallet.
My expander has two sizes; .223 and .224 that can be set by choosing which end of the tool to use.

When I bought the kit, three forming rods were available.

1. Scorpion - An exaggerated hollow point with a central post (much like Federal Hydra-Shock pistol bullets)

Winchester Wildcat Dynapoint with exaggerated modification (pounded too hard)

CCI Mini-Mag with proper Scorpion HP


2. Hollow Point - A wide gaping cone shape.

Note the off center HP. When modifying existing hollow point ammunition, the forming punch works well.
However, some of the holes made into standard round nose bullets are off center as seen above.
When modifying bullets with existing hollow points, the forming rod centers itself in the hp and formed bullets are fine.

3. Nasty Nose - A dished out flat point

Again, this picture is an exaggerated modification caused by striking the forming rod too hard.
One of the problems that I encountered with the Kelly kit, was my ability to strike the forming rod consistently.

Note different sizes of Scorpion Point shapes do to different mallet impacts forces.

This can (and will be) easily addressed, by cutting a short length of metal tubing to stop the forming rod at the same place each time.
I have a small arbor press that will take the place of the mallet.

A reloading press could also be used by fabricating a pair of stout metal disks to place above and below the tool.

To be fair to Paco, I have not contacted him about the Hollow Point pin, but have no reason to believe that he would not make things right.

According to his latest advertisement, he has made a lot of new modifications to his tools, and is well worth a look.

I like the Paco Kit.
It has some flexibility that my other sets do not offer.
Despite the HP forming rod problem, I'm a satisfied customer.

Part 2 ... More to come
Steve

 

[Steve Cover]

My second kit is the D-Rock available from Thornton Rimfire Innovations.

D-Rock Kit (Part 1)

Derek Thornton
1842 Ellis Blvd
Cedar Rapids, Iowa 52405

[email protected]

There are eight different nose forming tips available (At $8.00 each) so you can mix and match as you wish.
Being an avid experimenter, naturally I bought all eight even though I'll probably winnow down to a couple for serious use.

The D-Rock die is designed much like the Paco Kelly set and can be used with a mallet.
But, Derek offers an adapter for using an arbor press if available.
Since I already have a small press from another experiment, I ordered the adapter too... (Glad I did)

To resize the bullets, they are placed into the sizing die set, the top spacer is place on top and the forming rod with an adjustable stop ring is inserted.

The assembled die is placed on station two of the press adapter.
(Station one is used to give a press assist in seating the cartridge into the sizing die if need be. All I needed was thumb pressure.)

Note that you can measure the gap and adjust to the desired amount of repeatable modification.
You can change depth settings and always be able to go back to a recorded setting.

The rod is pressed down reforming the bullet to a uniform .224" diameter and the desired nose shape is swaged into shape.

Part 3 ... More to come
Steve

 

[Steve Cover]

D-Rock Kit (Part 2)

Like the Kelly die set, the reforming causes a tight fit in the die.
In both cases, the forming rod is used to push the cartridge back out of the die.
The D-Rock cartridge extraction is much easier.

First you turn the press adapter to station three where there is a hole for the cartridge to fall clear.

You pull out the forming rod, remove the stop spacer and reinsert the forming pin.

The cartridge is easily and gently pushed out and falls clear.

This operation is more complicated than the Kelly system, but much more consistent.

The first forming rod in the D-Rock system is the flat point.

I've seen several articles about cutting off the tip of a 22 bullet form a flat point shape for better hunting performance.
CCI even marketed a SGB (Small Game Bullet) for a while.

The D-Rock set produces a smooth flat SGB shape consistently without the loss of bullet weight.

There is a rod that produces a true round nose.
I'm interested in the configuration.
Will it be more accurate than the parabolic shape of normal factory ammunition?

There is a Standard Factory type of HP forming rod for duplicating the HP configuration without loss of weight.

There is also a flared HP forming rod that produces a great deep HP with a wide mouth. I'm looking at this as a small game getter using standard speed target ammunition.

Two domed SWC rods are in my set.
While I expect feeding problems in semi automatic firearms, they may be quite useful in my revolvers.

The Large Dome

And a Small Dome.

Just fooling around, I adjusted the small dome die to form a full wad cutter profile.
I'm interested is seeing how of works in my Super Single Six handgun.

This could be my vermin eliminator.

Part 4 ... More to come
Steve

 

[Steve Cover]

D-Rock Kit (Part 3)

Derek also provides two sizes of (Hydra-Shock type) post HP

The Large post produces a HP about the same size of the Kelly Scorpion point.
It does differ in the width of the space around the post
My hopes are that this will give improved modest expansion while providing a deeper penetration for larger small game.

However, right now, my favorite (based only on appearance) is the small post nose shape.

Whether it proves to be more effective than a standard hollow point or not is yet to be seen.
But it does look menacing.

I like the D-Rock system because it allows a far greater repeatability and adjustment than the Poco Kelly system.
It also has a far greater flexibility with all the available extra forming pins available as extras to the basic set.

All this additional precision does come at the price of being the most labor intensive of all my forming tool sets.



Waltz Kit

Neal Waltz
4105 Hyatt N.W.
Massilon, OH 44646

[email protected]

Finally, we come to the Waltz kit.

This is a true loading press sizing die, and the easiest and fastest to use.
Bullet modification rod travel is adjusted just like a bullet seater die.... Very easy to use.
Once set up, bullet forming is as quick and easy as resizing cartridge brass.

The set comes with just two forming rods, an ELEY EPS style Flat Point and a magnificent Hollow Point.

The spare forming rod is stored in the die opposite to the active rod.
Very clever in my opinion. it never can be lost.

The Waltz system comes with a normal reloading press style shell holder designed for 22 Rimfire.

Here is the EPS Flat Point produced by the Waltz die.

I formed a full box of EPS Flat Points in just a few minutes..

The very deep hollow point rod allows any variation from a shallow dimple point to a monster cavity without radically deforming the shape of the bullet nose.

Here are a couple of boxes of deep hollow points that I also produced in just a few minutes.

Waltz's sizing die set is the most easy to use and adjust on top of being by far the fastest.

Also, having only a Flat Point and Hollow Point set of forming rods is no disadvantage.

About Cost:
Remember that these are custom made and not production line items.
Because of the machining involved, this is the most expensive of the Bullet Modification dies sets that I purchased.
(I actually spent more on the full D-Rock set, but his comparable basic set is cheaper than this one)

So, are these Kits worth the cost?
That is one of the considerations prompting this test.

Hopefully, my test will cover enough variations to be helpful.

Now, I have to wait until June or July for the shooting phase of the test.

<<< SNIP >>>

Post Script: Shortly after I made this report the 22 ammo scare hit and the ammunition disappeared form the dealer shelves.
Being unsure of the future, I shelved this project.

Also note that this was written in 2012 prices have likely changed.

Now that the political situation is different I’ve decided to go ahead with this and other ammunition evaluations that were shelved years ago.

Part 6

Steve

 

[Steve Cover]

this die bumps up the diameter of 22lr ammo and can reshape the nose or make a hollow pt in round nose ammo. it is said to add a little accuracy to bulk ammo. it screws in a regular hand reloading press.

Anyone on here familiar with this tool?
I have stock up on 22 ammo , a bunch of it is RN, I much prefer HP ammo for my rodent hunting??

any thoughts??

Bull

I should have also included references to other threads on the Waktz kit.

Here is the best of them.

http://www.dayattherange.com/?page_id=5338

George and his friends were looking more at accuracy where terminal performance is where my emphysis lies.
It is a good report that is well worth your time if you are interested in this kind of experiment.

Steve

 

[Naphtali]

I've owned one for years.I have bump-shaped to flat nose (swc) shape only. The only potential problem to avoid is applying force too rapidly and collapsing the cartridge. You may find the bump-die easier to control were you to install in a Lee straight line hand press. If you also use the quick change inserts, you adjust once and lock each die.

Hope this helps.

this die bumps up the diameter of 22lr ammo and can reshape the nose or make a hollow pt in round nose ammo. it is said to add a little accuracy to bulk ammo. it screws in a regular hand reloading press.

Anyone on here familiar with this tool?
I have stock up on 22 ammo , a bunch of it is RN, I much prefer HP ammo for my rodent hunting??

any thoughts??

Bull