Near-Perfect Hunting Cartridges...

[saturno_v]

375H&H: This big belted magnum can solve nearly any problem that you might encounter on the NA continent and most on the great dark continent as well. It offers good trajectory and plenty of power to put down beasts in the far north. (honorable mentions are the .338WM and the .300WM, but are slightly more limited in application)

Maverick

I do not agree on the 338 WM.

IMHO it's a more versatile choice compared to the 375 H&H
It has slightly less energy at the muzzle (but the 338 has better SD which helps penetration) but it shoots flatter and hits harder at longer distances (it has a much better BC in typical bullet weights for the two calibers).


Where the heck is the 30-06 in your list???!!!

 

[Maverick223]

...come on a difference between a .30 and a .35 cal?

It certainly can make a difference...in some cases a pretty big one (like in the .35 Whelen), but I have never been overly impressed with the .35Rem., it cannot do much if anything that the good ole' .30-30 cannot, and at much less expense (for the non-reloader). The .30-30 and .35Rem. are on equal terms as far as I am concerned, and both will greatly benefit from the new LeveRevolution bullets.

I do not agree on the 338 WM

Okay.

 

[saturno_v]

I have a reprint of vintage Buzzacott, wherein he writes that the .30-30 is really only good for small game. This was in 1913. So you're not alone in your opinion. I

Armedbear

For Elmer Keith the 270 Win was a "decent coyote cartridge" while for Jack O'Connor was adequate Lion Medicine......opinions are like a...holes, everybody has one!!!

 

[Yellowtail3]

The .30-30 and .35Rem. are on equal terms as far as I am concerned, and both will greatly benefit from the new LeveRevolution bullets.

pretty much. I've not yet tried the pointy Hornady bullets yet; FN 150s are my 99% solution, so far

 

[Grassman]

For me it would be: .22,.223,.308 12 gauge. All I really need.

 

[saturno_v]

It certainly can make a difference...in some cases a pretty big one (like in the .35 Whelen),

The 35 Whelen is not a much more capable cartridge than the 30 WCF because of its caliber but mainly because it has a 30-06 case behind it!!!

If you take a 30-06 it can do pretty much anything a 35 Whelen can do...

 

[Maverick223]

The 35 Whelen is not a much more capable cartridge than the 30 WCF because of its caliber but mainly because it has a 30-06 case behind it!

I don't believe that is all of it, but that is certainly a factor; despite the common belief there are just some tasks that the wee bullets aren't well suited for.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The 35 Whelen is not a much more capable cartridge than the 30 WCF because of its caliber but mainly because it has a 30-06 case behind it!!!

Actually, it's both. The .35 Whelen works on the magic of expansion ratios. The bullet is driven by expanding gas. As the gas expands its pressure drops. In the .35 barrel, it drops faster than in a .30 caliber barrel (for a given length of bullet travel.) This means you can add more powder to keep pressure up, which means you add more energy.

The .35 Whelen can drive a very heavy, .35 caliber bullet to about the same velocity as a .30-06 drives a lighter bullet. The Whelen will drive a 225 grain bullet to about the same velocity as the .30-06 will drive a 180 grain bullet.

My .35 Brown-Whelen (the most radical form of the Whelen) drives a 225 grain bullet to an honest 2800 fps. And that's a real thumper!

 

[Uncle Mike]

The 35 Whelen is an awesome round! I considered it when musing over the 338-06, not wanting the atom splitting power of the Whelen or a cartridge such as the 338WIN.MAG, 340 Weatherby I settled on the 338-06....

225gr. moving along at 2800FPS...hard to argue with that!

 

[Maverick223]

Mike, honestly I would have chosen the Whelen...it fills the role of "bigger than the '06" a good bit better IMO...and you can always download, plus bullets are a good bit cheaper.

 

[Uncle Mike]

Patience....what am I going to do after the 338-06...!?! lol hehehehe

I really 'need' any of them like I need a...well, you know!

I really do like the 35 Whelen!

 

[Maverick223]

Patience....what am I going to do after the 338-06...!?! lol hehehehe

Excuses...excuses, for getting a new rifle are important.

 

[tango2echo]

For me it would be:

.22lr
.308 (or a good .30-06)
.416RM
12ga 3 1/2"

If I needed something between the .22 and the .30 cal it would be a .243.
There's nothing a .25/.27/.28 can do that a .308/.30-06 can't do better. Nothing wrong with a good .270win, but the larger selection of bullets and weights gives the .30 cals a big advantage.
There's nothing a .300/.325/.338/.350/.375 can do that the .416 can't do better. Bullet selection is the only drawback, and that's not even a big one.

If it had to come down to ONE gun for NA it would be the .308 and the .416 for Africa.

t2e

 

[saturno_v]

My .35 Brown-Whelen (the most radical form of the Whelen) drives a 225 grain bullet to an honest 2800 fps. And that's a real thumper!

That is a very good number...are you sure is within pressure limits?? What is the barrel length of your rifle??

Remington data for their 35 Whelen offering is 2675 fps for the 200 gr. and 2400 fps for the 250 gr.

Federal 225 gr. is advertised at 2600 fps

Hodgdon Reloading data mention a max velocity of 2588 fps for a 225 gr. bullet in 35 Whelen.

Only Nosler shows a 225 gr. load at 2800 fps for their 35 Whelen.

However a 225 gr. 35 cal. bullet has a SD of .251 where a 30 cal. 180 gr. pill has a SD of .271 (and a 30-06 can launch a 180 gr. bullet at well over 2800 fps)

That is a very important factor to consider for performance on game

 

[saturno_v]

However my ideal battery (excellent, easy to find cartridges, well diversified for the various use) is the following:

22 LR (plinking, pest control up to a small coyote with the proper ammo)

223 Rem (serious varminting)

30-30 (more for the platform, a very manouvrable and light lever action rifle)

7,62x39 (very cheap ammo, effective on deer, very reliable and inexpensive semi auto rifles chambered for it)

30-06 (and more than one rifle in that chambering, at least a bolt action and a Remington pump action for wildlife defence, a much bette choice than any lever action 45-70 with the right ammo)

7,62x54R (not for the cartridge per se, which is a ballisti twin of the 30-06, but because of the unbelievable low price and availability of the platform and the ultra cheap cost of ammo)

338 Win Mag (good for comfortably hunting anything in the North American continent, it shoots flatter and hits much harder at long distances than a 30-06)

458 Win Mag or 458 Lott (just to have a very common and appreciated large African caliber in your collection)

Personally I'm close to get this ideal battery.

 

[Maverick223]

a much [better] choice than any lever action 45-70 with the right ammo

That very much depends upon your use...the .45-70 fills some roles (such as large bear, and is available in a smaller, faster cycling action) much better IMO.

 

[bearmgc]

.280, while I love the caliber, I love the BC of the 6.5x55, which could easily eliminate both the .280 and the .260. The BC is that good and proven long range tackdriving hunting caliber. Besides, its sexy....

 

[Uncle Mike]

hehehehe...everything is sexy from Sweden! Even the ammo!

 

[saturno_v]

That very much depends upon your use...the .45-70 fills some roles (such as large bear, and is available in a smaller, faster cycling action) much better IMO.

Maverick

A 1983 Study made by the US Forest service about the effectiveness of various calibers against the big bears found the 30-06 only behind the biggest magnum boomers (458 WM, 460 Wby, 375 H&H and 338 WM) especially with heavy for caliber bullets.
It outclassed the 300 Magnums and significantly left behind the 45-70 (with standard velocity loads, not the "nuclear" ones used in single shot rifles)

Check the report:

http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/gtr152.pdf

The Remington pump action is a faster cycling than a lever (at least in my hands...however it is a general common opinion) and you do not need to visually reacquire your target between shots.
On top of that you can use aftermarket extended magazines (10 rounds)

It is an immensely versatile rifle, put a scope with quick detachable rings and use light-medium weight spitzer bullets (up to 180 gr.) and you have a very effective long range hunting rifle...take the scope off, use the iron sights and heavy for caliber round nose bullets (220 gr. and up) and you have a serious short-medium range bone buster with tremendous penetration capabilities.

The 7600 is my hiking wildlife defence rifle.

 

[Maverick223]

with standard velocity loads, not the "nuclear" ones used in single shot rifles

Now there is your problem...the existence of the Trapdoor...in a Marlin 1895 (by no means the stoutest .45-70 action, but it can handle the .450Marlin so it isn't weak either) it can be loaded to about 40,000psi, which makes it less than tame.

 

[Uncle Mike]

You guys and your....Pumpkin Chunkin' lol hehehehe

 

[Maverick223]

You guys and your....Pumpkin Chunkin'

Punkin' Chunkin' is the American way.

 

[saturno_v]

Now there is your problem...the existence of the Trapdoor...in a Marlin 1895 (by no means the stoutest .45-70 action, but it can handle the .450Marlin so it isn't weak either) it can be loaded to about 40,000psi, which makes it less than tame.

Well in that report, the 30-06 finished just behind the 458 WM and 460 Wby...even the most nuclear 45-70 loads cannot approach the 45 cal. super magnums...(much bigger cases and higher pressure)

 

[woods]

IMO, an efficient caliber should be able to shoot a decent sectional density bullet between 2900 and 3100 fps, any slower and long range trajectory suffers and any faster and the bullets do squirrely things. Calibers that are not overbore or underbore are:

223
257 Roberts
270
300 Win Mag
338 RUM

 

[jbech123]

Still, I wouldn't disparage the .30-30 for what it does well. That's just not anything I can count on, in the Intermountain West. Sometimes, it would be just the ticket, but its limitations could just as soon cost you the opportunity to take a shot. We can see a lot farther than it will shoot -- and so can the deer, which can be over 400 lbs. I work with a woman who bagged a DOE that weighed over 400 lbs., two years ago, at 400 yards, because they just wouldn't let anyone get closer, and the season was about to end. That's not exactly a .30-30's forte.

I agree with you out here in the west the 30-30 limits a person unnecessarily as far as range.
I must say, I find a 400lb doe hard to believe. However even if true, that needn't enter the equation for selecting caliber. Very few bucks dress out above an honest 250...