Nebraska: Erosion of Carry Rights

[strat81]

The state of Nebraska has allowed for lawful concealed carry for less than three weeks (effective Jan 1, 2007) and already cities are trying to kill it. The following story just ran in my local paper, the Aurora News-Register in Hamilton County Nebraska:

by Gregory Maker

An ordinance has been proposed in Aurora to limit places where concealed weapons may be carried. Carrying a concealed handgun is now legal in Nebraska due to a statute passed by the state legislature last year. The Aurora City Council approved the first reading of Ordinance No. 856 last week. If implemented, the ordinance would reduce conditions of the statute.

"We couldn't approve the reading as a whole because we were lacking enough votes," said city council president Dick Phillips. "It cannot be finalized until we have a majority." According to state law, communities have to accept the statute but can prohibit or expand on it through ordinances. The statute went into effect on Jan. 1. According to the Nebraska State Patrol website, 130 people in the state have been accepted for a permit including eight at Troop C in Grand Island. "All weapons had to be physically visible under the old law," said Aurora Mayor Marlin Seeman. "This bill has been coming up over the last few years."

Ordinance No. 856 would limit where people could carry handguns in Aurora. Public areas would be off limits if the ordinance were to pass. "There is a place for it, but it doesn't mean it has to be in public places," Seeman said.

The ordinance would make it a crime to carry a permitted handgun in or on the grounds of Aurora City Hall, the wastewater treatment plant, the municipal airport, the public library, the cemetery, the Cellar Youth Center, Streeter Park, Cole Park, and Refshauge Park.

"I respect the right to bear arms," said Aurora Police Chief Godfrey Brokenrope. "I'm in favor of it as long as people go through the proper training."

Brokenrope expressed concern that with the new law, there is the potential for more guns to be carried on the streets. "By law, if a person has a concealed weapon they have to tell us about it at a traffic stop," he said. "I'm concerned at the potential that someone might act irrationally when they are pulled over." People who carry concealed weapons need to inform not only police officers, but members of the fire department, and ambulance workers as well. Officer Chad Mertz held a training session Jan. 10 to update those workers on the new law and train them how to react if such an instance occurs. The ordinance, if passed, would extend beyond the places listed. Since streets, alleyways, and sidewalks are public property, the ordinance would make it a crime to carry a permitted handgun in those areas as well.

"If you pass a city ordinance to include all public streets, the law is in conflict with the statue," Phillips said. Unless signs are posted on public streets informing citizens of the ordinance, it would be unenforceable. City Administrator Mike Bair is not concerned about the conceal and carry law affecting Aurora.

"I'm not worried about it," he said. "The people of Aurora are very law abiding." According to Brokenrope only a handful of handgun incidents have been reported in the six years he has been with the Aurora Police Department. Furthermore, he doesn't expect anything to change when it comes to illegal handguns. "If people are getting guns illegally, they are not going to change regardless of the law," he said. Phillips agreed that the statue will not have much of a change on everyday life in Aurora. "I think Aurora is a pretty conservative town," he said. "I don't see a lot of people going out to get permits." Bair did express concern that the statue has the potential of bringing more handguns to Aurora. His main concern was that people not from Aurora might be bringing concealed handguns into the community. According to Phillips, the ordinance will probably be passed as it is. Before it is passed it will be left open for review at a public council hearing

"We have to see what we liked about it, and reflect to get to know what is best in the public interest," Seeman added.


How to apply
Applications for concealed handgun permits are being accepted by the Nebraska State Patrol during normal business hours at the Criminal Identification Division office in Lincoln or any Troop Area Headquarters
outside of Lincoln. Permit applicants can expect to receive their permits in
the mail approximately 10 days to two weeks after application. A person applying for a permit needs to bring with them a completed and notarized application form, proper identification, proof of training, proof of citizenship, proof of vision, and a permit fee. Troop C consists of the following counties: Adams, Buffalo, Clay, Franklin, Garfield, Greeley, Hall, Hamilton, Howard, Kearney, Merrick, Nuckolls, Polk, Sherman, Valley, Webster, and York.

The crazy thing is the police chief sounds like the most pro-gun person they interviewed.

For some background, Aurora is a rural community of about 4,300 people in South Central Nebraska. I admit that crime is low, but not non-existent. People here stick their heads in the sand and say "Bad things don't happen here!" Ignorance is bliss, I suppose, but it disgusts me when I hear that. I wish harm on nobody, but some of these people really need a wake-up call.

Anyway, this article made my blood boil and I plan on speaking at a city council meeting regarding. What should I say against this proposed ordinance? Any specific citations or statistics are welcomed.

Currently, the state statute allows businesses and other entities to prohibit concealed weapons if they post the proper signage conspicuously at all entrances. This makes me think a public park would be a difficult place to enforce the prohibition since most parks don't have an "entrance" per se. As for banning weapons at city hall, the state statute prohibits concealed weapons at city council meetings and other such gatherings already.

For those who live in Central NE, apparently the Conestoga Mall in Grand Island prohibits concealed weapons. The irony of that is I feel relatively safe inside the mall, it's the parking lot I'm fearful of.

Any rational, intelligent help you all could provide is greatly appreciated. The next city council meeting is this coming Tuesday, so I need help ASAP.

 

[Zoogster]

Yes, concealed carry meant concealed carry period back when only stars and police and government officials could qualify. Now that the average peon can get it, it must be stretched to no longer mean concealed carry through restrictions. I imagine they will add new clauses for carry by government officials that no longer use what the peons now have access to for it would infringe on thier ability to make use of the purpose of carrying if they were held to the restrictions of the peons.
Basicly it was passed, and was considered to give too much unrestricted freedom to average people. Now the definition of what concealed carry has meant for many years for police etc must be changed because it is available to you.

The new real form of concealed carry will exist under the guise of something like 'security personel' or something in legislation allowing those above the rest of us to find a loophole to continue to gain the freedoms above the rest of us by being able to claim belonging to some agency providing security, while the old title given to allow it now accessable to average people will be legislated away, but still require registration and other unconstitutional actions making you more vulnerable as a gun owner.

Hey at least they got you to register your firearm for carry!

 

[big44]

If a law passes in the state legislature then localities shouldn't have the right to limit its power.

 

[SAG0282]

Hmmph, funny, WA state has around 240,000 permits statewide with almost no restrictions, and I cant think of single instance where any of them reacted "irrationally" during a traffic stop.

 

[steveno]

the Nebraska ccw law was screwed up from the very beginning. if it had been a good law for gunowners Ernie Chambers would have raised hell about it from the start instead of the token resistance he gave.

 

[Sisco]

Same crap is going on here in Kansas. Some places want to ban from all city property including but not limited to streets, sidewalks and alleys!

 

[scout26]

Any rational, intelligent help you all could provide is greatly appreciated. The next city council meeting is this coming Tuesday, so I need help ASAP

1. Point that the people who will be CCW'ing:
a) will have undergone a background check to verify that they are NOT:
Drunkards or drug addicts
Are not mentally defective
Have ZERO criminal history (by definition "LAW ABIDING")
b) will have spent X Dollars out of their own pocket and received Y hours of training on not only how to shoot, but also the law and on when you can and cannot use deadly force to defend yourself and other innocents.
2. A search here or on the rest of the internet for Texas and Florida's experience with CCW. IIRC, I remember seeing that CCW are 20-25 times LESS likely to have any contact with police (even traffic violations) because once again, CCWer's are by LAW ABIDING.

Here's some links to Ohioians for CCW that has some good info:
http://www.ohioccw.org/index.php?option=com_kb&page=articles&articleid=14&Itemid=57

http://www.ohioccw.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1849&Itemid=67

The cards are great, BTW.......

HTH.

 

[jazurell]

Ohio just passed into law, HB347 which would do away with the problem you are having. It doesn't go into effect for 90 days, unless contested in court.
You can read about it here:
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/article3397.html
The major provisions which would apply to your situation:
- Local regulation of firearms is now completely preempted at the State level, ending the patchwork quilt of firearm laws across Ohio. Most importantly, this part of the Bill makes the award of attorney fees mandatory for any group that successfully challenges a municipal firearm ordinance, meaning cities that attempt defiance of this provision will financially pay for their obstinance.

Many state have similar statutes.

 

[rich642z]

Nebraska;Erosion of Carry Rights

I hear the same thing all over Omaha,and Hastings mainly and I think for how many of us who do or will not have the ccw permit will still carry in Nebraska and anywhere we want to go. We got to play like the criminals when it comes to concealed carry. the criminals do not have permits and could give a damn less. And it is to bad that Nebraska legislature could go like VERMONT,AGEEor DISAGREE????? Rich642z,Omaha,Ne.

 

[Rumble]

So, public places are off limits. Or at least, these ordinances would make them so.

My question is, where else would you want a ccw, if not in public places? I can open carry in private places.

 

[mec]

"The crazy thing is the police chief sounds like the most pro-gun person they interviewed. "


Not too unusual. Police know that the need for effective self protection is real. Recently, our state childrens protective agency started hiring commissioned peace officer to handle much of the investigative work. Social workers had traditionally done this job but were not really qualified on several different levels.
Since the agency management structure is still populated by social workers, the first thing they did was forbid the new investigators from carrying their sidearms. The investigators are lobbying for the ability to carry the guns on their standing police commissions. The agency administrators are phobic on the subject but the legislature may well go over their heads.

 

[cracked junior]

i never liked aurora anyways. so now i really dont like it.

i was reading on the nebraska legislature website. about lb491. im not into the law jibberish. but my understanding of lb491, is it fixes the problem of towns being able to ban ccw.
hopefully the link works. it did for me

http://uniweb.legislature.ne.gov/FloorDocs/Current/PDF/Intro/LB491.pdf

 

[bumm]

As Scout 26 pointed out, drive it home that people licenced to carry concealed have undergone training, and a background check, and have an extremely LOW rate of violent crime. The bad guys have always carried weapons and always will.
I've lived in Iowa for the last 31 years, but I'll always be a Nebraska boy. It's embarrassing to see my usually level headed home state make such asses out of themselves over concealed carry.
Marty

 

[ProguninTN]

This demonstrates the need for state pre-emption.

 

[cbsbyte]

Sounds like it is easier to carry a CCW in Massachuetts than Nebraska. Except our licensing is very strict but once you pass your golden.

 

[stevelyn]

+1 for statewide preemption.

Almost all "shall issue" have had to tweek their CHL laws from the start. I think this is due in part to the desire to actually get a CHL passed, that poorly crafted bills have been put up for a vote and the bad has been accepted with the good.

The thing 2A and CHL activists need to do now is get a pro 2A/CC attorney or legislator to go through the CHL law, mark all the bad details for repeal, submit a bill for such and also submit a preemption bill that would take any weapons restriction authority away from the local Marxist govts.

The Anchorage boy-mayor tried the same thing with Anchorage residents when our VT-style carry was signed into law and he started bleating Home Rule.

He was promptly slapped down by the state due to our preeemption law.

 

[strat81]

Thanks for the responses so far, guys. As for preemption, it does not exist/pertain to Nebraska's concealed handgun law. <sarcasm> Which is great, because I enjoy learning I'm a criminal just because I stopped for gas in some jerkwater town. </sarcasm>

Anyway, cracked junior, I read the PDF you linked and I didn't see anything about preemption or anything of the sort. They reword the sections about school/college activities and sporting events, and convictions of violating certain sections.

Anyone have links to statistics from credible sources? A google search of "Gun Statistics" is too large, and when I start adding more terms I get nothing, or irrelevant results.

BTW, I took the CCW class on Saturday - *quite* informative.

Edit: I intend on contacting my state senator regarding preemption.

 

[jlficken]

I live in Aurora and took my class with Mark Bohaty near Bruno, NE on Saturday with a friend of mine. This really infuriates me. I am going to have to go to that meeting and speak my mind!!!!! strat81, would you let me know what time the meeting is tomorrow so that we can attend? This will really torque me off if I spend all this money and can't even use it

 

[strat81]

jlficken,
The meeting is tomorrow night, Tuesday 1/23/07, at 7:30PM at City Hall. I've never been to a city council meeting so I'm not sure what to expect. Glad to see a fellow Auroran here on THR.

It would be great if they abandoned the ordinance altogether, but I doubt that will happen. I intend to pressure them on the city park situation. I rarely go to City Hall, the library, or the wastewater treatment plant. Aside from the crime potential in a public park, it is near impossible to post conspicuous signage at a large park (at least not without creating an eyesore).

I'll be the small guy at the meeting.
PMed this to you as well.

 

[jlficken]

Thanks for the info. I will be the tall blond guy and the other guy that took the class with me is going too. The thing that really irritated me was the street/sidwalk thing. That makes the permit pretty much useless. It sounds like that would be in violation of the state law though. I have never been to a meeting either so I guess we will see what happens.

 

[Flyboy]

The municipal airport, eh? Well, it looks like I'll have to start my own "no-fly" list.

Note to self: do not fly to:
AUH

Alternatives:
GRI, 20 miles west. Guess I know where I'll be buying my four-dollar-a-gallon gas.

 

[strat81]

Flyboy, some trivia for you: the new mayor of Grand Island, Nebraska (GRI) is Margaret Hornady. Yes, THAT Hornady. As city council president, she helped build the Heartland Public Shooting Park which is a pretty awesome shotgun, rifle, and handgun "park". It's so much more than a range, it's a great place to go and relax. I don't think Grand Island will have one of these silly bans, at least not while she is mayor.

For the rest of you, here is a copy of what I plan on discussing/mentioning. Excuse the lack of grammar, it's mostly bulleted, i.e., not proper english.

-Strongly urge you not to pass the ordinance banning concealed handguns on public property

-Disarming law-abiding citizens such as women, the elderly, and the disabled who may not be able to defend themselves against death, grave bodily harm, abduction, or sexual assault

-Infringing on a citizen’s right to defend themselves
-In Beard v. U.S. (1895), the Supreme Court approved the common-law rule that a person “may repel force by force” in self-defense, and concluded that when attacked a person “was entitled to stand his ground and meet any attack made upon him with a deadly weapon, in such a way and with such force” as needed to prevent “great bodily injury or death.” The laws of all states and the constitutions of 44 states recognize the right to armed self-defense.

-Concealed handgun permit holders are not:
-Felons
-Fugitives from justice
-Adjudicated as a mental defective or committed to a mental institution
-former members of the military that were dishonorably discharged
-Illegal aliens
-drunkards
-perpetrators of domestic violence
-perpetrators of any violent crime
-violators of any laws pertaining to firearms, weapons or controlled substances within the past 10 years
-on parole, probation, or house arrest

-Concealed handgun permit holders are LAW ABIDING CITIZENS like you and me
-Have passed a training program approved by the Nebraska State Patrol.

-You will be making criminals out of otherwise law-abiding citizens. The State of Nebraska grants someone the right to defend themselves and because they go to the park with their kids, they are now guilty of a Class III misdemeanor for the first violation and a Class I misdemeanor for any second or subsequent violation. Additionally, their permit may be revoked and they may be fined up to one thousand dollars and shall be charged with the costs of the prosecution. [Section 69-2439 and 2443]

-Enforcement, especially in public parks will be incredibly difficult
-Chapter 69, Section 2441, paragraph 2 of the Nebraska Revised Statutes specifically states that there must be “conspicuous notice”. Will you place signs every 10 feet or put a fence around the park, posting the signs at the entrances? Who will pay for all of these new signs or fences?

-With regards to city hall, it is already against state statute to carry a concealed handgun into a meeting of the governing body of a municipality or county

-The more buildings that prohibit concealed handguns, the more weapons will be left unsupervised in vehicles. This could lead to more weapons in the hands of criminals since a weapon could be inside the vehicle. Concealed weapons may be left in vehicles according to Chapter 69, Section 2441, paragraph 2 of the Nebraska Revised Statutes.

-Gun violence in this country has not been eliminated be the enactment of more laws
-See New York City, Los Angeles, and Washington DC for examples

- According to Florida State University criminologist Gary Kleck, in the first ten years of Florida’s concealed handgun law (‘87-’97), only ONE permit holder out of 350,000 issued was convicted of homicide. If the entire country behaved as Florida’s permit holders did, the U.S would have lowest homicide rate in the world. [Source: Kleck, Gary Targeting Guns: Firearms and Their Control. p. 370. Walter de Gruyter, Inc.New York 1997.]

-Florida, which has issued more carry permits than any state (due to its large population and having had an RTC law since 1987) has issued over 1.2 million permits, but revoked only 157 (0.01%) due to non-specified gun crimes by permit-holders. [Source: Florida Division of Licensing, Monthly Statistical Report http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/stats/cw_monthly.html)]

-According to the Los Angeles Times, a Florida permit holder is 840 times less likely to commit a violent firearm crime than a randomly selected Floridian without a permit. [Source: "More Permits Mean Less Crime..." Los Angeles Times, Feb. 19, 1996, Monday, p. B-5]

-In connection with the University of Chicago, studies by Prof. John Lott have provided strong evidence that allowing law-abiding citizens to carry concealed weapons does not increase gun crime or fatal gun accident rates. [Source: “Crime, deterrence, and right-to-carry concealed handguns” by John Lott Jr and David Mustard, 1997, © University of Chicago, Journal of Legal Studies, vol. XXVI (Jan 1997)]

-Only two states, Wisconsin and Illinois, prohibit carrying firearms for protection [http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=18]

-While I have tremendous respect for the Aurora Police Department, they cannot be everywhere at once. And even if they could, they are not obligated to protect me or my family. For example:
-In Warren v. District of Columbia (1981), the D.C. Court of Appeals ruled, “official police personnel and the government employing them are not generally liable to victims of criminal acts for failure to provide adequate police protection. . . a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular citizen.” In Bowers v. DeVito (1982), the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals ruled, “There is no constitutional right to be protected by the state against being murdered by criminals or madmen.”

 

[cracked junior]

thats sounds good to me. but thats me

strat, that is some good information. hopefully people take it good.

i use to work in grand island a few years ago, down the street was the horandy building. one day the state patrol had a event there where they handed out gun locks. they had boxes of various ammo on the table along with popcorn and drinks. the guy said everything on the table was free. so i took popcorn bag, drink, gun locks and a box of ammo. i didnt know anyone who had a gun that shot that ammo but i took one anyways. after i start walking back to work. the guy comes running and yelling after me. and said the ammo wasnt free.

 

[strat81]

Well folks, jlficken and I went to the city council meeting. We fought the law and the law won. We were each given two minutes to speak while vendors and contractors had no time limit.

In case you're in Aurora, NE: an 8 1/2" x 11" posted on the shelter of a public park is "conspicuous notice."

I'll be looking to organize a preemption letter writing campaign very soon.

 

[jlficken]

I can understand why they are afraid of being sued along with the person defending themselves but that shouldn't take a backseat to the safety of their citizens. I just hope they never have an incident in a park that could have been prevented. We received the suggestion to carry in the open in the parks but that doesn't sound like a good idea to me as I don't like being harrassed by the police so it is a no go but at least we can carry in the town itself as uit was rewritten so that the streets and sidewalks are ok now because that violated the state statute. At least we tried and this is better than the alternative. I just hope I never run into the mountain lion that the one councilman said had been sited on the bike trail I ride on. I guess I will have to stick with the goold old knife while riding on the trail.