Need advice on brass cleaning machines

[JTHunter]

Can somebody help with some information about the different types of brass tumblers, rotary and vibratory?

I don't do much brass cleaning at any one time, about 100-150 rd. of .380 or 50-75 .243 in the past. Now I'm adding in .38 Special and .357.

The old way I used to clean brass was to take a plastic 1 gal paint can and fill it 1/2 way with red nutshell media and "borrow" a stores paint shaker for 3-5 minutes. UNFORTUNATELY, all those "exposed paddle" type of machines have disappeared and these newer cube shakers don't rattle the brass as well, so I am looking for a tumbler of some kind.

My questions are:
Which is faster?
Which is quieter?
Which is more mechanically durable?
Which does a better job?
Anything else you can think of that would help would be appreciated.

 

[Dudedog]

You will get lots of different answers as everybody has their on favorite way.
At first I just washed cases in a bucket of soapy water. I would let them sit for a couple days and soak a stir every now and then.
Then I bought dry tumbler. In dry walnut cleans better but corn cob shines better.
I had been thinking about wet tumbling but also thought that's a lot of money to clean brass.
I bought a Lyman cyclone and was happy I spent the money after the first batch. The Frankford one is popular with lots of people. ( F.A.R.T )
The Thumlers tumblers are supposed to be very well built but more $
If you deprime the brass first it comes out spotless, primer pockets are clean, inside.outside of brass is clean in about an hour of tumbling. You do need to dry the cases however.
I just put mine on an old towel in the sun or if it's cold (winter) in an out of the way corner inside. In the sun where I am at dry in a couple hours, inside dry in a day or so.
Some care wash and wax (I use whatever was on sale that I am using for the car) and a dab of citric acid works great in the wet tumblers with pins. (citric acid is in the canning section of the super market)
If you decide to get a wet tumbler get a magnet to help you deal with the pins, they like to try to escape.

Harbor freight makes a small rotary tumbler that might work for less money but you would want to get stainless pins say maybe 2.5lbs about another $25.
My Cyclone works fine for small batchs and will do lots of cases at a time if you to.
(just make sure they can't fit inside each other, .380, .38s .243s etc would play well together, the 50-75 would need to be a separate batch)

I would say wet with pins does the best job, dry with corn cob and polish might make the brass shiner but it is not as clean inside and the primer pockets don't come clean like wet.

Midway has the Lyman like I have on sale for $123 right now, it used to come with pins and some trays to separate the pins but you still want a magnet.
The wet tumblers are are medium size boxes to ship and semi heavy so check shipping charges, may cost more from say Amazon but be less by the time you add shipping to one from someplace else.



https://www.amazon.com/Lyman-763155...-1-spons&keywords=lyman+cyclone+tumbler&psc=1

Same price from Amazon if you have prime otherwise more $155+5 shipping which might still be cheaper than for Midway with shipping, maybe maybe not.
Don't forget the magnet to case escaping pins (about $10-$15 search media transfer magnet)

 

[ColtPythonElite]

A vibratory tumbler, some bulk ground corn cob, and a cap of NuFinish car polish works well for me.

I bought my first Lyman used and used it close to 20 years before I broke it. I replaced it with another Lyman.

 

[MikeInOr]

A rotary tumble or a vibratory tumbler will both do a very nice job of cleaning brass.

Vibratory tumbler - Pretty quick, does a nice job cleaning and polishing, brass is ready to go when you are done. Noisy, kind of messy, you need a brass media seperator and can kick up a lot of dust.

Rotary tumbler - Pretty quick, does a nice job cleaning, gets into the primer pockets better, quieter. A lot more hassle moving liquids around, you have to seperate the pins from the brass, the brass has to be dried before you can reload it.

 

[Capt.Roll]

LOL.........lots of ways to skin this cat.

Since I started reloading about two years ago I've only used the Harbor Freight Single Drum Rotary Rock Tumbler. I think I paid around $35 after applying the HF 20 percent off coupon. The quality is okay and with two years use the value proposition has been excellent. I don't keep track but have probably cleaned 10K to 12K cases split between .380 Auto, .40 S&W, 9mm, and .233 REM. I wet tumble with stainless steel pins, Dawn, Lemi-Shine and some Armor All car wash/wax. My cleaning ratio is a pound of the SS media, a pound of brass and then fill with water. 3 pounds max is all the unit can handle. I let it run for 60 minutes for clean brass and if I want "looks like new" I'll let the brass tumble for 90 minutes. I think the extra 30 minutes makes a noticeable difference.

The HF unit is adequate for my needs and is probably comparable to other 3 lb. capacity units in terms of speed and cleaning ability. I do think it's noisy (I don't run it in the house when my wife is home) but it may be similar to other tumbler units; I have no basis for comparison though. I can process 600 to 800 cases on days that I choose to run brass. I start in the morning and then work on other projects around the house as the batches run through the 60 to 90 minute cycle. Being retired, high efficiency is not a priority.

I purchased the SS media via Amazon; around $19 for a couple of pounds. Seems like the SS pins will last forever as long as I do not lose them. I dry the brass with an old toaster oven I keep in the garage; a quick towel dry after separating the media and then 15 minutes at 300 degrees evaporates the remaining water.

 

[ray15]

Which is faster?

A rotary wet tumbler with stainless pins is pretty fast. 1 hour for most brass, no more than 2 for the worst. I think people generally let vibratory tumblers run for many hours.

Which is quieter?

I have a Thumler's style rotary tumbler that is pretty quiet. But I like the Frankford Arsenal Rotary Tumbler better, even though it is louder. Most people find the noise and vibration from a vibratory tumbler more bothersome.

Which is more mechanically durable?

Most vibratory tumblers die at some point, but it's usually decades of use. I'm not sure the popular rotary tumblers have been around long enough to know if they have decades in them. The Thumler's style have been in use the longest of the popular tumblers, but generally need some sort of repair decades in.

Which does a better job?

Wet tumbling all the way. Like new brass when done well.

Anything else you can think of that would help would be appreciated.

For the small as the quantities you intend to do, you could go about any way. Anything is going to be better than having to find a paint shaker. I like wet tumbling as it's fast, gets the cases really clean, and doesn't generate dust, but the initial outlay is greater than a simple vibratory tumbler and a bag of media. I don't know what dry media adds up to over time, but doesn't sound like much in your case. You may also wish to consider an ultrasonic cleaner given your small brass quantities.

 

[Blue68f100]

When I started hand loading 4 decades ago, all In did was wipe them clean before I loaded. Later on I bouht the vibrator tumbler, use a mix of corncob and walnut hulls. It cleans faster with the walnut hulls and corncob does the polishing. Not as good as straight corncob but is faster. I have since moved to the FART system using the citric acid and car wash. The Armor All Wash and wax has a polymer finish which retards tarnishing. I have some brass that was cleaned 4-5 yrs ago that is still bright and shinny. Now the wet tumbler system are a bit noisy. Some vibrate units are very noisy, some do not have lids that seal off to prevent the dust particles from escaping. Please remember that there is lead dust residue with fired brass. So if you have young kids you will want to keep them away from your cleaning stations. With the wet systems it's controlled and washed down the drain.

 

[Whiterook808]

I had a RCBS vibratory case cleaner, but after 30 years the rubber in the base rotted away. I tossed it and bought a cheap Frankford Arsenal vibrator for about $40. For me, it only has to last a couple of years at that price. That old RCBS was made in the USA and I don't expect anything made off shore to last as long. I prefer dry tumbling because I don't want to deal with drying the cases,etc. When I started out reloading I would put the cases in hot soapy water on the stove for a bit and then dry them in the oven. I am married now, so that is no longer in the cards even if I was so inclined. If you go with dry tumbling, which I would recommend, use Nufinish instead of the expensive polish from the reloading companies. Also I have heard that pet stores have ground walnut shell for cheap, but unfortunately, none in my area.

 

[nettlle]

Although I don't wet tumble it's obvious from the photos I have seen that wet tumbling does a far better job than the dry tumbling I do.

Wet tumbling requires disposal of the cleaning liquid after every session. I have used dry media for over a year and it still works.

The cases have to be dried when wet tumbled. Dry tumbling is just a minute or two through a sifter.

It appears that wet tumbling is more hassle and time consuming but does a better job than vibratory tumbling.

I have a Thumler's UV10. It makes about the same amount of noise as my refrigerator. It is very well made.

 

[George P]

I use a Thumbler's Tumbler (vibratory) . Using a mix of crushed walnut and corn cob with a capful of Nu-finish liquid car polish. Very quiet, takes about an hour or two to clean and make the cases shiny. Add an hour or two extra and they look like new.

 

[Grumulkin]

Stainless steel pin tumbling gives the best results as far as getting pretty cases goes. It's not the cheapest but gives the best results and is quiet.

 

[D Rock]

I've gone to wet tumbling with stainless pins. I use a Frankford Arsenal tumbler which is gear driven and not that quiet. The belt driven tumblers like Thumbler are quiet but you can't process as much brass at one time as you can with a gear driven tumbler, at least according to the mfg statements.

Dave

 

[ray15]

The belt driven tumblers like Thumbler are quiet but you can't process as much brass at one time as you can with a gear driven tumbler, at least according to the mfg statements.

I can confirm on that point. I have both types, and the FART can do at least twice as much brass per load. It's not quiet, but holds so much and rotates much faster than a Thumlers, making it far more productive. But with the OP's small batch intent a Thumlers makes sense if noise is of large concern.

 

[JTHunter]

Thanks for all the incredible information ! I have heard about those stainless pin tumblers but I didn't think they would be that much better.
As I already have a bunch of dry media, I MAY stay with that and just get a low-end vibratory. The question is if I can stand the noise in my small house !

 

[nettlle]

Before I got the Thumler's UV-10 the tumbler was either outside the garage or on the front porch. Depending on the weather.

 

[Toprudder]

Thanks for all the incredible information ! I have heard about those stainless pin tumblers but I didn't think they would be that much better.
As I already have a bunch of dry media, I MAY stay with that and just get a low-end vibratory. The question is if I can stand the noise in my small house !

I also do mine in the garage, so noise is not a problem.

Dry tumbling can create dust, the dry vibratory tumbler that I used for a while has a solid cover so that it does not create dust while it is tumbling, but you will get dust when you separate the media. As the dust contains lead (primer residue) I highly suggest you do this outside.

All you really need to do is clean the brass enough so that the dies don't get scratched. Simply wiping the brass with a rag can do that. Anything more than that is a matter of personal preference. I started dry tumbling, but later switched to wet tumbling and never looked back. Both of my tumblers, dry and wet, are Frankford, and have been pleased with both of them.

 

[Dudedog]

Dealing with the pins and dry the cases may sound like a big hassle but it's really not that much effort.
After 6 hours in a dry vibe type cleaner my brass was more shiny on the outside but nowhere near as clean inside as an hour in the wet with pins.
Dry never cleaned the primer pockets spotless, wet brass comes out looking new.
Does it shoot better, probably not but it looks better and that makes me happy.
Never used it but for small qtys the Harbor Freight one might be right for you if you want to go wet.

 

[labnoti]

I got a "7" pound wet tumbler, which tumbles 5 pounds of media and 2 pounds of brass. I probably overload it a bit and the cheap Chinese motor on it runs pretty hot. It gives good results, but I don't really care to clean brass every week. I'd rather save it up and clean it once a month. But running ~1000 cases takes too many batches in the 7 pounder.

I saw one fellow put his brass by the 5 gallon bucket into a cement mixer. If you shoot much, I just can't see screwing around with the little tumblers that just do a couple hundred cases at a time. For a lot of shooters, they'd have to be running them every day or running multiple tumblers. I don't have time for that.

If you were shooting a lot of .223 or larger rifle, you could pick up one of those old steel-drum 6 cu. ft. wheelbarrow cement mixers on Craigslist and save yourself a ton of time. For my current needs, a plastic-barrel 1.25 to 3.5 cu. ft. mixer would probably work better. At Home Depot, Lowes, Harbor Freight, they're not any more costly than the lapidary rock tumblers they sell to reloaders.

Definitely wet-tumble dirty cases. Dry tumbling cases contaminated with lead-styphnate primers would just be a nasty mess. I used to decap before I wet tumbled, but I learned here to wet tumble 30 minutes first, then decap and wet tumble another 30 minutes to an hour. Even though I switched to lead-free primers, it still keeps my decapping equipment cleaner.

Some people bake their wet tumbled cases in a drier or oven at about 200 deg. F. I just air dry them but it takes longer. After they're dry, I dry tumble. I have walnut and corn cob but I don't see much difference between the two. I run one or the other and either way I get cases as polished as any I've ever seen. I'm using a vibratory tumbler for dry-tumbling and again, it's too small, limiting me to running just a couple days worth of brass at a time. If I were to upgrade, I'd look at building my own rig with a 1.25hp induction motor. I'd use one of those thick rubber horse bucket/tubs fit inside a steel frame. But another option is to just use the same rotary tumbler for the dry media.

Boiled down: don't make lead dust, and don't waste your time cleaning brass every couple hundred shots

 

[Toprudder]

Definitely wet-tumble dirty cases. Dry tumbling cases contaminated with lead-styphnate primers would just be a nasty mess. I used to decap before I wet tumbled, but I learned here to wet tumble 30 minutes first, then decap and wet tumble another 30 minutes to an hour. Even though I switched to lead-free primers, it still keeps my decapping equipment cleaner.

Agree about it being a mess decapping before tumbling. I decap using a universal decapper, and dirty range brass can gunk up things quick, especially on a press that drops the spent primers (and residue) out of the side of the ram, above the base of the press. That is one reason I bought a Lee Classic Turret, as it drops all the primers and residue down through the center of the ram. I use a short piece of straw, stuck into the bottom of the shellholder, that guides all the residue down into the ram, it keeps things pretty clean that way.

For rifle brass, I have, in the past, wet tumbled without pins just long enough to get the dirt off the outside before I resize/decap. Then I finish up with tumbling using the pins.

 

[PhillySoldier]

I switched to using an ultrasonic awhile back and will never go back to tumblers again. I can clean a couple thousand pieces of brass and my guns at the same time and all is spotless in 20 minutes.

 

[farm23]

PhillySoldier which ultrasonic do you have that can clean a couple of thousand at a time?

 

[JT-AR-MG42]

The question is if I can stand the noise in my small house !

Vibratory/nu-finish case cleaning here as well.
One to two hours max per batch for me. All I want are clean cases, I do not need shiny.

To help dampen the noise when tumbling in the attached garage, I use carpet
remnant rolls that are 6-8 feet long by 3 feet wide. They do double duty as a poor man's shooting mat.

The tumblers are placed on wooden blocks on the concrete floor with the carpet rolls standing (and loosely encasing) around
each of the tumblers. Small carpet squares makes the lids.
Noise is cut down by a bunch! But I never leave the tumblers running if I need to leave the house. The motor does generate heat.

When done tumbling, the rolls are rolled up tightly and store conveniently.

JT

 

[PhillySoldier]

PhillySoldier which ultrasonic do you have that can clean a couple of thousand at a time?

I have the 9 liter Hornady Hot Tub

 

[Dudedog]

I used to decap before I wet tumbled, but I learned here to wet tumble 30 minutes first, then decap and wet tumble another 30 minutes to an hour. Even though I switched to lead-free primers

That's my plan of attack as well.
Rinse in bucket, get rid of major crud.
Tumble about 1/2 an hour. Let dry, deprime then back in for about an hour with citric acid and whatever Wash and wax I currently have for the care. (car gets what's on sale)

 

[jmorris]

Which is faster?
Which is quieter?
Which is more mechanically durable?
Which does a better job?

Wet with stainless.
Depends on the device, could be either.
Depends on the device, could be either.
Wet with stainless.

Which is less work?
Dry with corncob or walnut.

Which costs less initially?
Dry with corncob or walnut.

Which can knock off case lube by post load tumbling?
Dry with corncob.

Do you even need to tumble at all to reload ammunition?
No, but you do need the cases clean if you don’t want to risk damage to your dies/debri transferring to subsequent cases. If you only have a hand full, like benchrest, you can do this with a rag and brush in seconds.