Need Bullet Casting Advice

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Foto Joe

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Okay, I've pretty much given up on finding lead bullets for 45ACP, 45 Colt & 38 Special without doing serious damage to my wallet. It seems that about the only way to actually have a decent supply of bullets these days is to make your own. The problem I have with casting is that I'm dumber than soup regarding the subject so a couple of questions are in order:

Regarding bullet size, do the molds drop the appropriate diameter i.e. .452 for 45ACP or will I need a sizer. Also if the bullets need to be sized can I use the same mold for .452's & .454's or is that too much to hope for?

Second, Lee has a starter kit of sorts for bullet casting but it's a ladle furnace instead of a bottom tap furnace. Advice please.

As far as lubing is concerned I suppose I could pan lube but if I'm gonna have to size anyway I would assume a lubrisizer would be the way to go.

I know you guys will dump a pile of info on me and I appreciate it.
 
Go to http://castboolits.gunloads.com/. All of your questions have been answered many times in the FAQs.

Short answers:

Regarding bullet size, do the molds drop the appropriate diameter i.e. .452 for 45ACP or will I need a sizer.
Click to expand...

Some molds are oversize, some are undersize. The lead alloy you use also affects the size. You'll want a lubrisizer, although it's possible to do without, just like it's possible to load ammo without a press.

Also if the bullets need to be sized can I use the same mold for .452's & .454's or is that too much to hope for?
Click to expand...

That depends on the bore of your gun in a pistol or rifle. In a revolver it will depend on your cylinder throat. Bullets need to be about .001 or .002 oversize in most cases.

As far as lubing is concerned I suppose I could pan lube but if I'm gonna have to size anyway I would assume a lubrisizer would be the way to go.
Click to expand...

You are correct.
 
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I use a thrift store cast iron teapot (~2qt size) and a 99c store ladle over a turkey fryer. Total investment in new stuff <$10 Doesn't take a whole lot to get going at low volume. I'm doing round ball so no sizing.

I found this useful
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm
 
Regarding bullet size, do the molds drop the appropriate diameter i.e. .452 for 45ACP or will I need a sizer. Also if the bullets need to be sized can I use the same mold for .452's & .454's or is that too much to hope for?
Click to expand...

Try and see. A cast bullet doesn't always need to be exactly 0.001-0.002" larger than the bore. A cast bullet has to be bigger than the bore. (And that means at the time the bullet enters the bore. So you may need to consider the case and/or cylinder throats, too; they can squeeze the bullet smaller than you reckoned.) On the flip side, the bullet must be small enough to chamber without pinching. If your gun has a super tight chamber (relative to the bore), that might mean you need a sizer to get an exact diameter just barely larger than the bore. OTOH, if your gun is more generous in the chamber (relative to the bore), it might shoot grossly over-bore bullets just fine.

Here's a really interesting post I found on castboolits.

John Traveler
04-28-2011, 10:31 PM
There have been many experiments and developments of the squeeze bore effect.

My favorite story is one written by Frank DeHaas when he was Technical Editor for the American Rifleman.

A reader wrote that his Japanese Arisaka rifle kicked too hard although it was accurate and he had killed a number of deer with it. Frank asked him to ship it to him for evaluation. What he found was a 6.5mm Arisaka that was rechambered to fire .30-06 ammunition in the original bore. He was amazed that the rifle didn't blow up. It had actually fired .308" factory ammunition through a .264" bore, a reduction of some 44 thousands of an inch!
Click to expand...

FWIW, I cast bullets for 6 different calibers, and I only have sizers for my 2 rifle calibers. They're for applying gas checks, only. No more, no less.

All my bullet molds drop just a hair bigger than the stated diameter, for me (like half a mic, maybe). That's what I reckon is the norm, though your results may vary. If a mold drops too small, it can be "beagled" to increase the diameter. The casting temp and alloy will also change the final diameter.

If you are keen to try .454" cast bullets in a 45ACP, but they aren't quite a drop fit to the chamber, try R-P brass.
 
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I started with a cast iron pot from a flea market and a hot plate ( i removed the thermostat). I bought a cheap Lee ladle and used a lee mould. Bullets shot great. Now, as with any hobby, I wanted to try out new stuff. So I got a Lee bottom pour (worth the money, but it does drip) a lubrisizer.

I found that pan lubing is cheap and easy. So is making your own lube. Bullets can drop bigger than the mold (depends on the alloy composition). Lee push through sizers are cheap and awesome. The lubrisizer is pretty cool, but not necessary and is a huge added expense because you need the separate sizer inserts and top punch.

Also, remember to not melt your wheelweights (or whatever source of lead) into the same pot that you cast bullets out of. That pot can get cruddy.

Oh yeah... wear gloves, long sleeves, long pants, shoes, safety glasses, and a hat. The Tinsel Fairy is no joke.
 
The Lee 20 lb bottom-pour furnace is just about perfect for casting pistol bullets, and it doesn't cost much more than the ladle-pour furnace.

Get a Lee 230 grain "tumble lube" truncated cone bullet mold. About $20 for the 2-hole mold. I don't shoot .45 ACP, I use it in .45 Colt and it's one of my favorites. You can probably shoot it *without* sizing in both .45 ACP and .45 Colt, just coat it with Lee Liquid Alox or Rooster Jacket bullet lube, or melted Johnson's Paste Wax, or a mixture of Alox and Johnson's Paste Wax. (the wax cuts the stickiness of the Alox)

A 6-hole mold is more than 3x faster than a 2-hole, but it costs more and is a little trickier to learn with. If you do get the 6-hole mold, don't forget to buy a handle for it. You'll definitely want at least one 6-hole mold for the .38 Special.

Do you have a source of scrap lead? It's getting harder to find.
 
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First thing I reccomend is getting a decent stock pile of lead. 7000 grains in a pound. if your casting 230grainers.... get the point?

I was lucky there when I started casting 10 years ago and have plenty for the next 10 years already.

You can start with the Lee set stay with a bottom pour and upgrade as needed.

I use a old turkey fryer set up with propane and use a old dutch oven I picked at a garage sale.
 
Okay, this is exactly the input I was looking for. I think there's some confusion though, I won't be shooting .454's out of the 1911. On the other hand I "have" run .452's out of my 12" barrel SAA although I haven't tried 'em out of my other SAA so I haven't got a clue as to whether I could hit a bullet with the broad side of a barn on that one.

Regarding lead, for right now until I figure out what I'm doing I'll probably find a source for pure lead somewhere and tinker with that. I'll also be using this for A LOT of Black Powder both round ball and bullets. Those however don't tend to eat as much as a couple of 1911's.

Thanks for all the info and I'm gonna be getting more involved in the cast boolits forum. I hate being ignorant but I hate paying $100 for 500 230gr LRN bullets even more.
 
How old is your .45 Colt, and why do you think it needs .454 bullets? (if it's old enough you might be right, but that's *really* old)
 
If it was made after WWII, assume it uses a .452 bullet until you have reason to believe otherwise. So you should be able to to use the same bullets @ the same size in both the ACP and the Colt. It won't hurt anything to try even if you're wrong.

BTW, I use a stainless steel pot (1.5 or 2 quart, I'm not sure which) on an $10 electric hotplate to melt lead scrap into ingots. I've melted over 1000 pounds that way, about 10-15 lbs at a time. I don't ever want scrap in my bottom-pour furnace because it'll clog up the spout.
 
Good point on scrap and a bottom pour furnace. As far as the .452's I guess what I need to do is get around to taking a couple of .454 round balls and slug both of the SAA barrels. I know that I've put hundreds of rounds of El Paso Petes Ultra Gamers in .454 through the 12" one over the years but those have been soft lead 140gr RNFP's being pushed by 20-25 grains of 3f Black Powder. Unfortunately I can't even get those anymore. Since discovering TrailBoss I've kind of cut back on my Black Powder cartridge loading.
 
If it was made after WWII, assume it uses a .452 bullet until you have reason to believe otherwise.
Click to expand...

The age of a revolver in .45 Colt has nothing to do with what size bullet you should use. Revolver bullets are sized to fit the cylinder throats, not the bore. I have a S&W 25-5 that was made in 1980 with .454" throats, even though it has a bore of .452". I size my bullets to .455" and all is well.

Don
 
Before you even go to CastBoolits. Secure a lead source or pony up the cash to buy it. People are under the impression it's easy and cheap to come by. For most this is not the case. If you don't have any lead you can't cast. So start there. The OP mentioned a source of pure lead. This will not work for what you want to cast for. You are going to have to harden it up one way or another.


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Pure lead is great for black powder. I have used wheel wieght lead for my 1860s and 1851s with no issue.
Once things added to lead, its hard to get it pure again, kinda like trying to remove creamer from a cup of coffee.
Wish ya was closer, got plenty of pure lead from x-ray walls I haven't melted down. Would trade for some good ol wheel wieghts any day.
 
I fully understand that pure lead for smokeless bullets is problematic. One of the reasons I want to start with pure lead is so that I can control the hardness by adding my own (tin?) to it. There's just too much "unknown" in scrap lead for a beginner like me. I have found pure lead for around $11 per five pound ingot. Expensive by some standards until you compare it to actually buying lead bullets. Once I've got some experience under my belt I can experiment.
 
Foto Joe said:
I fully understand that pure lead for smokeless bullets is problematic. One of the reasons I want to start with pure lead is so that I can control the hardness by adding my own (tin?) to it. There's just too much "unknown" in scrap lead for a beginner like me. I have found pure lead for around $11 per five pound ingot. Expensive by some standards until you compare it to actually buying lead bullets. Once I've got some experience under my belt I can experiment.
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Guys on ebay sell lead by the pound.

Flat rate shipping boxes do little damage.

Thats how I do it.

Now I just need a fricken 9mm mould and a 45 mould. (and a 7.62x39 mould, and and and)
 
There's nothing particularly *wrong* with the way you're going, but it's a really expensive route -- especially since hard lead of questionable composition is about perfect just like it is for smokeless handgun cartridges. Worst case, you'll have to add about 0.5 to 1% tin to get it to fill-out the mold nice and sharp.
 
Suggest you go to your local scrap metal yard to get lead in it's original state. The composition of commonly found lead products is well known. Good items to search for are clip-on wheel weights, linotype, lead pipe, sheet lead, sinkers, and any solder. Once you have the various types of lead and have poured them into ingots, then email me and I will send you an Excel file that will give you the BHN values of mixtures of the various lead types.

Don
 
There is the option of tumble lubing, the Lee line of molds is the most likely way to start and there are several designs that drop from the mold ready to shoot without sizing.

If you stay with sane velocities the straight clip on wheel weight lead can be water hardened to @18 BHN. If you want to push them to magnum velocities you need a gas check type bullet.

Lee's second edition of MODERN RELOADING has a chapter on pressure-velocity vs lead hardness and it's effect on cast bullets, the book is worth the price for this info alone, they have a pressure-velocity-BHN chart that works well with their tester.

Some other popular hardness testers give relative #'s so you need to know the original BHN.
 
There is the option of tumble lubing, the Lee line of molds is the most likely way to start and there are several designs that drop from the mold ready to shoot without sizing.
Click to expand...

Totally depends upon the alloy you use, whether they "drop from the mold ready to shoot without sizing". Use an alloy without a lot of antimony in it, and they will come out smaller in diameter than an antimony rich alloy.

If you stay with sane velocities the straight clip on wheel weight lead can be water hardened to @18 BHN. If you want to push them to magnum velocities you need a gas check type bullet.
Click to expand...

With the right alloy and correct sizing and lubing, no need for a gas checked bullet at magnum handgun velocities. EK developed the 44 Magnum using non-GC bullets. I use full power .30 Carbine loads approaching 1900fps using non-GC bullets.

Don
 
The Lee tumble lube design are made to cast to size with wheel weight alloy.

Most of EK bullets were high antimony and were of known alloy content, plus all that was 50 years ago. Trying to buy pure components to cast with today is cost prohibitive.

If your getting into casting to save $$ and to have a supply your just about going to have to use wheel weights.
 
Since someone mentioned it. Don't get hung up on BHN. The commercial casters have done a great job of making people think they need high BHN bullets. They cast them that hard so they don't damage during transport. I do everything w/ 11BHN isotope lead. And this includes rifle. I keep the velocities down w/ that one. And I shoot plenty of full power 357 magnum loads w/ no gas check. Again, no leading. Concern yourself w/ bullet fit and perfectly formed bullet bases before anything else.


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