Need help identifying an old Smith & Wesson

[sbellesc]

I am hoping yall might be able to help me. My boyfriend has a very old Smith & Wesson that belonged to his great grandfather.

Its a Smith & Wesson 38 special CTG I think ( thought it is so worn it looks more like an OTG) He said his family had it looked at one time and the only place to find even ammo for it would be at specialty places and gun shows. Not that he is looking to fire it.

I did some research here on your forum and it appears to have a serial number 358116. On one side of the barrel it says K38 S&W Special CTG

The serial number is on the butt and the chamber cylinder. On the other side it says Smith & Wesson on the barrel and had a trade mark to the right of the trigger.

The only story he knows about it is that his great grandfather worked security in the oil fields of Texas.

Any help would be most appreciated.

 

[Old Fuff]

Well eventually we will be able to help you, but right now more information is needed.

Look on top of the barrel and see if some patent dates are stamped there. If so, we will need to know the last three ones, and if my hunch is right the last one (if there are any) will be Dec. 29, 1914. Also, is the rear sight adjustable or just a notch in the topstrap? What material are the stocks made of, checkered walnut, black hard rubber, or something else? Last but not least, look at the number on the butt, and be sure it isn't preceeded by the letter "K".

If you could post a picture it would be a great help.

 

[rmfnla]

If it's a .38 Special you can get ammo at Wal-Mart...

 

[Old Fuff]

If it's a .38 Special you can get ammo at Wal-Mart...

You might, but it would be wise to wait until the revolver is positively identified. The Opening Post mentions someones great-grandfather was the previous (but not necessarily the first) owner...

 

[sbellesc]

Thanks for yalls help. I will take a photo to upload in the morning when there is better light.

Look on top of the barrel and see if some patent dates are stamped there. If so, we will need to know the last three ones, and if my hunch is right the last one (if there are any) will be Dec. 29, 1914

Old Fluff, You are so right the last one is indeed, Dec. 29, 1914.The two prior to that are Sept 14, 1909 Feb 6, 1906. There are also two more before that Dec 17, 1901 and October 8, 1901.

Also, is the rear sight adjustable or just a notch in the topstrap?

It is just a notch, not adjustable

What material are the stocks made of, checkered walnut, black hard rubber, or something else?

It is def a dark checkered wood so I would say it is indeed the checkered walnut

Last but not least, look at the number on the butt, and be sure it isn't preceeded by the letter "K".

There is not a K, just the numbers

 

[Old Fuff]

O.K., Now I know what to look for. If someone else doesn't beat me to it I'll have a more complete answer tomorrow.

 

[Radagast]

sbellesc:

Your boyfriend has a S&W Military & Police Model of 1905 4th Change, manufactured around December 1920. In modified form this gun is still manufactured today as the Model 10. Built on the medium sized K frame, several million have been made over the years. Modern replacement grips will fit, you will need to check if it is a round or square butt as the grips are different.

This gun has a heat treated cylinder so it should be safe with any standard pressure .38 special load, limited use of PlusP marked ammunition should be fine as well. Avoid any ammunition marked +P+ as there is no industry standard for +P+ pressures.

The sights will be regulated for the 158 grain lead round nose, which is still available from Winchester.
His family was given wrong advice, .38 S&W Special is a very common round, most gun shops and Walmarts will stock it. .38 S&W (no special) is a different matter, this is an older cartridge and only made in small runs.

The Model of 1905 4th change does have an internal hammer black safety, but it can fail. In 1944 such a failure lead to the death of a USN sailor when a gun was dropped on its hammer. The current hammer block was developed as a result of this accident. I recommend that if the gun is kept loaded or carried that the hammer should rest on an empty chamber.
BTW, 4th change refers to a design change, in this case the fitting of the early hammer block safety.

 

[Old Fuff]

The information above is generally correct, but I would recommend using standard loaded .38 Special ammunition, loaded with either 148 or 158 grain lead bullets because that's waht this give-or-take 90 year old revolver was designed for, and intended to use.

Dates of manufacturer are difficult if not impossible to determine without a factory records search (which I will explain shortly) because revolvers were neither manufactured nor shipped in numerical order by serial number. The one given above may be a bit suspect, as it is not unusual to learn that a shipping date (based on the only records the company still has) is earlier or later then expected.

Given that the revolver belonged to your boyfriend's great-grandfather, and might be passed down to future generations, He might want to have more specific information about this particular gun. If so, in exchange for a $50.00 search fee, Smith & Wesson's in-house historian will dig back and find the original shipping record covering it, and send him an official letter with what ever they find. This process is called "lettering a gun," and the details are explained below.

Information concerning historical letters of authentication from Smith & Wesson’s historian, Roy G. Jinks can be obtained from the link listed below.

In exchange for a $50.00 research fee (make any check out to Smith & Wesson, not Mr. Jinks) he will search through the company’s original records until he finds your particular revolver. He will then send you an official letter which usually includes:

A short history of the revolver model’s background.

What the barrel length, caliber/cartridge, finish and stocks were, as well as the exact date it was shipped from the factory – and to what distributor, dealer or individual – as whatever the case may be.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...catalogId=10001&content=25301&sectionId=10504

 

[Radagast]

Old Fuff:
IIRC sometime ago a member posted that he had a factory letter for a gun in the 358xxx range dated to December 1920. I made a note in my SCSW, but not of the members name. I'm pretty sure that sbellesc's boyfriend's grandfathers gun will date to the same month, give or take a few weeks, as it is within three digits.

sbellsec, I don't want to discourage you from getting a factory letter. If it interests you enough to do so, please post a copy of it when you receive it (be sure to block out any personal info such as your real name), as it is factory letters that help us to define the serial number ranges for each period. Basically you make it easier for us to help the next person who asks.

 

[Old Fuff]

In a perfect world gun manufacturers would serial number guns, and then build and ship them in numerical sequence. That way you would know that if a certain model gun was numbered 320,001 and shipped on a certain day and month in a given year, number 320,002 would have likely been shipped within a day or so (more or less) that the earlier one was.

However prior to 1968 Smith & Wesson did not live in a perfect world.

First they would semi-finish frames with the yoke and sideplate assembled. Then the frames were serial numbered and put away. Sometime later, when they were going to make a production run of that particular model they would draw frames out of inventory – at random! In our perfect world the oldest ones would have been used first, but in Smith & Wesson’s world that didn’t always happen.

After a production run of mixed-numbered revolvers was finished they were boxed and again put into inventory. As orders came in guns were drawn from inventory to be shipped, but they didn’t always take them in order because what was more important then the serial number was to match the guns’ finish, caliber and barrel length with what the distributor or dealer wanted. :banghead:

So one can speculate that a certain gun should have been shipped at a particular time because others in the same number range were shipped during such-and-such a month and day, but the only way to be sure is to get that individual gun lettered.

Colt (bless their pointed little heads) always recorded the serial numbers they started with on the first working day in January, and the final number on the last working day of the following December. With the exception of some government orders, serial numbers were usually mixed in a given shipment, but they fell within the yearly block. At least that was the way it was supposed to work, but if you believe it I have some land here I’d like to sell you about 90 miles south of here.

Of course it’s only about half that distance to the Mexican border…

 

[Radagast]

And you had the Brooklyn Bridge disassembled, trucked out there and reassembled there, it's sitting in the back 40.

I stand corrected. Let's say 1920-1921 is most likely.