Need some schoolin' on .45 Colt

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So, I've been reloading since 1977 and I've been loading .44 mag since at least '80. My go to load for .44 mag pushes a 240g lead SWC around 1200fps out of my S&W 29.

Here's my question. Why don't the books have any loads that allow me to do something like that using my N frame 625 .45 Colt?

The RUGER ONLY loads don't even come close.

So, am I to believe that my N frame .44 can handle 37000 cup, but my N frame .45 can't handle anything over 20000 cup? Really?
 
The Hodgdon website has several 45 Colt loads listed at or above the velocity you mentioned (not lead).....under the "Ruger, Freedom Arms & T/C Only" cartridge. I do believe there is a level of "sensitivity" with the folks who publish 45 Colt data due to the fact that "old" Cowboy type firearms cannot handle the pressures - hence the "disclaimer" like Hodgdon note.
Whether your 45 Colt N Frame is up to the task - I don't know. One would think it shares a lot of commonality with the 44 Mag.
 
Whether your 45 Colt N Frame is up to the task - I don't know. One would think it shares a lot of commonality with the 44 Mag.
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Including the cylinder stop notch over the chambers, I'm sure. One of the reasons for the "Ruger Only" designation is the offset notches.
 
John Linebaugh is probably the most knowledgable person available regarding heavy .45 Colt loads. He has worked with them extensively for years and has valid pressure data available to back up his assertions. Despite his being a customer gunsmith, one of his favorite guns is a basically stock S&W M25. He wrote an article specifically regarding the strength and ability to handle heavy loads of the M25:

http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=12

And another comparing heavy .45 Colt loads and .44 mag loads as well:

http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm

A tremendous amount of good info in these articles that should answer your questions.
 
The cylinder walls on a 45 colt are thinner than the smaller calibers.
Food for thought, the 45 colt was 80 someodd years old when the 44 magnum came out, it was alive and well then and alive and well now. It's a deadly killer when loaded to 850-900 fps with the 250 gr bullet.
Look at Alliants online data with bludot and 2400 if you want to step things up a bit and stay within the saami specs for the 45.
 
As previously stated, John Linebaugh is the authority on .45 Colt loads. I've spoken with him on several occasions, and his 13.0gr load of HS-6 is a favourite of mine with my N Frame Smith & Wesson. 1100fps is about tops with a 6" barrel with 255 - 270gr SWC's using either 2400 or 4227 powder.

Don
 
your 625 is not as strong as a ruger blackhawk. do not try these loads with it. you can go to loads around 23K pressure and that is all in that gun. refer to this listing

http://www.shootersforum.com/handlo...es/65633-interesting-data-44-spl-45-colt.html

download it, it has the 23-25K psi loads in table 2.

also the 45 colt will be close to or just under the 44 mag in the (+P) loads until you get to heavier bullets like 300 grains then it out performs the 44 mag. Not in your gun though.


Why your gun will not handle the ruger only loads: Ruger uses a special heat treat on there frame and cylinder/ the cylinder is a bit thicker/they are offsetting the the cylinder locking notches and cutting the "flutes" in the cylinder not as deeply. i think in all honesty your gun wold take a few of them but the frame will stretch and the cylinder will too. Do not try it. dont hurt a nice 625.
 
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Im in agreement with BB45. Your N 25 will not likely come apart but it will get stretched and rattling soon needing an overhaul which will likely not get it back to pristine. 100fps with a 250 SWC will shoot thru an elk, what more do you want? I got a Redhawk to work off my magnumosis and after you fire a couple of cylinderfuls of published by Hodgdon "Ruger only"300r loads, generally you have your fill for a while. I have never chromed these loads because I just can't see a need to look for more power. Then its time to drop back to the old classic A- Unique loads for fun. Yeah, save your Smith for fun shooting and get the agriculture inspired Ruger for nuclear stuff.
 
Food for thought, the 45 colt was 80 someodd years old when the 44 magnum came out, it was alive and well then and alive and well now. It's a deadly killer when loaded to 850-900 fps with the 250 gr bullet.
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If you want (need arguable) hotter, there are many other better cartridges suited to the whim. For bipedal vermin defense, the .45 Colt is more than adequate.
 
stoky said:
If you want (need arguable) hotter, there are many other better cartridges suited to the whim. For bipedal vermin defense, the .45 Colt is more than adequate.
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I agree. Need a bigger bang, get a bigger gun designed for that bigger bang. If you(the OP) already has a .44 mag, why the need to make the .45 Colt into one?
 
Yes, the 45c can be loaded pretty hot in the newer guns made for it. They approach the 454 in power factor. Of course, you can always step up to the 460 or 500 or higher calibers, if the magnum 45c are too tame. But it is one of the things i like about the 45c caliber, & a reason for its continued growth & resurgence. You can do the lighter loads, just like in the 44 mag, but you can also load them to the max, for hand breaking power.

I shoot mostly for fun, & after a few of those hot loads in 45c, i'm not having fun anymore! :eek: ok, a few of them are fun, but one can only have so much of that.. :)

I've got a 44mag, too.. in rifle & redhawk. But the 45c is equal to it, in every way, & almost seems repetitious. I've shot some pretty hot 44m loads, & they don't seem to have as much recoil as the hot 45c. ..that's a subjective view, but most recoil is.

Anyway, i don't see any need to bash those who want hot 45c power, as long as they have the equipment to handle it. You can blow up a 38spl with overloading it, as you can just about any firearm. As long as the pistol in question is rated for the big loads, and if people want to shoot them, why not? Save the mandates & dogmatism for politics.. :D
 
Not sure why folks don't follow up on the Alliant data on their web for the 45 colt.
Bludot gives a touch over 1000 fps and 2400 about 975 with a 250 gr bullet.
My guns and chronograph back those numbers up and do so with accuracy.
If a 250 gr bullet hopping out of the barrel at 1000 fps won't take care of the problem, you screwed up by not having a good rifle with you in the first place.
 
Anyway, i don't see any need to bash those who want hot 45c power, as long as they have the equipment to handle it. You can blow up a 38spl with overloading it, as you can just about any firearm. As long as the pistol in question is rated for the big loads, and if people want to shoot them, why not? Save the mandates & dogmatism for politics..
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..and be grateful that it's beyond the realm of possibility that any .45 (Somecolorhawk, revered Xspurt de jour souped up) Colt cartridge could never (ever) be chambered into an original SSA or clone. :rolleyes:
 
Take the advice of the respondents as nice a revolver the S&W 45 Colt is it's not in the same league as Ruger Redhawk,Super Redhawk or other similarly built revolvers. I had a model 25 and kept my loads to 1000 fps or less. If you want that type of power get a 454 Casull.
 
and be grateful that it's beyond the realm of possibility that any .45 (Somecolorhawk, revered Xspurt de jour souped up) Colt cartridge could never (ever) be chambered into an original SSA or clone.
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In my house it is in fact beyond the realm of possibility for a hot loaded .45 Colt cartridge to be chambered in an original SAA or clone. Because there's not one in the house. The vast majority of us who have Rugers don't have an original Colt.

If I had one, I would likely re-think the way I do things with the round.

Here's my question. Why don't the books have any loads that allow me to do something like that using my N frame 625 .45 Colt?
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Because they apparently haven't deemed it safe. The safe answer is to follow load data to the letter. There are published loads that provide velocities of over 1,000 fps within standard .45 Colt tolerances.

If the extra 175 fps is that important to you, either use your .44 or get a gun that will safely handle heavy loads.

I say this because nice Smith and Wesson revolvers aren't getting any cheaper. I sure wouldn't want to mess one up by pushing it.
 
A 260 SWC, RCBS 255 KT, over 17.5-18 grains of 2400 (Ruger/TC only) will penetrate flat out through a decent whitetail's heart/lung area (not through all the bones, however). Verified this several times while hunting and while salvaging wounded deer that came onto my property.
I think it might make 1050 fps.
45 Colt, regardless of what some think, is not a magnum, nor does it NEED to be one. It is fine just like it is.
Dick Casull ruined many a fine single action army trying to make it one.
 
PapaG said:
45 Colt, regardless of what some think, is not a magnum, nor does it NEED to be one. It is fine just like it is.
Dick Casull ruined many a fine single action army trying to make it one.
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..and Bill Ruger designed a fine magnum 45c.

..and John Linebaugh showed that 24g of h110 can drive 250-300g hardcast to over 1200fps.. in a strong enough pistol (his favorite load, you can go even higher).

the ruger & FA 45colts have EXPANDED the versatility & power of the cartridge. IF some want to push it to max loads, why not? Why demand that it be handled like it was the 1800s?

For those who want a LOT more, there is the 454 & up. For those who want less, there is 9mm or 22lr. But these hot 45c loads are completely reasonable, powerful, & effective, in a modern revolver with modern manufacturing.

I find the criticism of the hot 45c loads to be very strange. Sure, you would not put a modern v8 engine in a model T. The transmission, suspension, & the rest of the engineered parts could not handle the power, weight, & torque. But if you put it in a modern performance racer, it is fine. Ammunition has evolved as much as the weapons. We are not stuck with black powder charges for everything. For some, the goal is not just adequacy. Some are not looking for the minimal caliber & ballistics to do a job, but want to explore the limits. Casull did that, & Ruger accommodated. That's good for everyone. We wouldn't even have the musket were it not for human innovation & pushing the envelope. We don't have to reinvent the wheel, since we have centuries of others' experience to build upon. We do not remain stagnant with every innovation, but build upon it. Sure we could demand that everyone only shoot black powder in 45 colt loads, since that is what it was designed for. Or we could demand that only weak steel be used for those loads. But Casull, Ruger, Linebaugh & a host of others have kept the 45c current & pertinent. Why is that bad?
 
The answers are in post #4

Simply put the SW M 25 is not a Ruger or TC or Freedom Arms. , nor can it handle the higher power loads that those guns can.

Sure maybe a few but the gun will end up damaged with a lot of them.
 
Simply put the SW M 25 is not a Ruger or TC or Freedom Arms. , nor can it handle the higher power loads that those guns can.
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I don't know first hand about the S&W, but i'm willing to guess that if it could handle Ruger only or TC loads, somebody who publishes data would have figured it out by now and published those loads, but hey, it's not my gun, so let us know how things turn out.

I guess I'm not finding the relevance between the history of 45LC, or 454 Casull, or what any other gunmaker has to do with the limitations of the S&W. My moto is: If the data isn't published, let somebody else try it out with their gun.
 
I've had a S&W M25-5 for 35 years and it has been a constant source of discussion on whether the M25-5 can handle hot 45 Colt loads and how hot.

The general consensus over the years that I have seen is while the M25-5 is probably stronger than an old Colt SSA, it is not recommended to shoot any hot 45 Colt loads in it.

Everything designed by man has a factor of safety built into it, the amount varies depending on many factors and conventions.

Everything made by man is done so to fit a range of acceptable tolerances. Items made outside those tolerances, if caught before shipping, are deemed faulty and are destroyed or reworked.

I do not have a Colt SAA in my house, I do have a Blackhawk besides the M25-5. The only hot "45 Colt" level loads in my house are stuffed in a 460 Magnum case. In my opinion, the risk is too great that the hot loads were be used in the wrong firearm particularly after I am pushing up daisies and there are plenty of other available options for shooting hot 45 caliber handguns designed for hot loads.

Just one person with one opinion. Others have their opinions.
 
I have the SW M 25 Mt Gun in 45 Colt. It ain't no Ruger. I have those in a Redhawk 41 and 44 Mag. No way I would run Ruger only loads in the SW.

Besides the links listed above, this discussion comes around as much as 38+P in what revolver:)

Here is another article about the RCBS 285 45 270 cast Brian Pearce

The charts show the pressures that guns can take in 3 separate charts, Thanks to rc model for this.

https://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/HL 246partial.pdf
 
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What do you define as hot? The non Ruger only loads I was looking at had pressures at <14000 cup. .45 acp loads (which I shoot in my .45 acp 625) go to 19000cup. I was just asking why my .45 Colt 625 couldn't shoot a 250g bullet at 1200fps. Not trying to make a .454 out of it.:D
 
Your gun (or mine ) would fall into table #2 in the link above Page 14.. Velocity would depend on what bullet but lets say a 250 gr lead. So you could get that moving along at over 1k fps. What do you want to do with it?

The original 45 Colt was big and slow to talk out a soldiers horse. Kind the principle of a 45 ACP big bullet slow velocity.

Depends on what you prefer ligter bullet faster velocity or big bullet slower velocity. Either way it makes a BIG hole.
 
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