Need You Help With Shotgun Choice

[tiggerbaby]

Im a middleaged women wanting to get a Shotgun that both my Son and I can shoot. I really don't know anything about Guns but I do know I want something that's going to take down whatever I'm shooting at (Armor piercing). I need to know what Gauge I could shoot without knocking me over or injuring my Shoulder. I'm a large Women but not very strong. I need your opinion's on what Gauge to get, by what manufactor and how much I can expect to pay? I have a Gun Range that I go to but they really don't have anything to rent only to buy so I can't really test anything.

I also need to ask what's the difference between a single action trigger and a double action trigger on a Pistol?

 

[Snarlingiron]

Welcome to The High Road, and the world of shotguns. On thing you do not mention is your son's age and stature. As for gages, bigger is smaller, i.e. the bigger the number, the smaller the gun, with the exception of the .410, the smallest.

As to the myth that any shotgun will knock you down, or injuring your shoulder it is pretty much just that, a myth. The larger gages with heavy ammunition can be somewhat uncomfortable, but won't knock you down. Much of what you hear about all that is just a Macho thing. Guys like to talk about shooting a roaring monster that "nearly took my shoulder off." Not much truth to it though. Shooting a large gun with heavy recoil without getting bruised is more technique than anything else.

What do you want the gun for? Defense? Teaching your son to shoot? Target? I kind of assume that you are wanting the shotgun for home defense. A shotgun will pretty much take down anything in North America given the proper ammunition and range, so that should not be a concern for you.

Many folks here like the 28 gage, and it can be a good choice. It has light recoil, and is an effective tool. I prefer the 12 ga or the 20 gage for a number of reasons. One of those is ammunition choice and cost. The 12 ga is the most popular gage, with the 20 being second. Ammo is cheaper, and there are many choices available at many stores ranging from Wall Mart to Cabelas and lots of places in between.

For recoil and effectiveness, I really like the 20 ga. Again lots of ammo choices, better prices, and still highly effective. To give an example, I have a friend that has an 8 year old that shoots a Mossberg 20 gage pump. When I say he shoots it, he shot 150 rounds with it last weekend. He wasn't knocked over, nor was he in pain.

Now, that touches on gage, so the next question to answer is what type of action. Again, many choices, but for general purpose, all around use a good quality pump action gun is very hard to beat. It is less complicated than an Auto loader, and generally speaking requires less TLC to function correctly. Single barrel or double barrel guns are simpler than either, but you are limited to one or two shots before having to reload. There is also the fact that you can buy some very high quality durable pump shotguns for not a lot of money. For example you can buy a Mossberg 500 or a Remington 870 for under $300.00, and either is a pretty much a fool proof durable gun that will likely outlast you and your son. I am partial to the Remington 870, others prefer the Mossberg. Either would be a very good choice.

As to your pistol question, generally speaking a double action cocks the hammer and fires the weapon with a single pull of the trigger. A single action just fires the weapon, and the hammer, or striker (lots of semi auto pistols have a striker, not a hammer) is cocked in another fashion, usually by racking the slide, or in the case of a revolver cocking the hammer manually.

Here is my recommendation for gaining shotgun knowledge. Find a range in your area that has skeet, trap, or sporting clays. Go there on a weekend and just tell folks that you want to learn about shotguns. You will find gun enthusiasts to be a friendly lot who love their sport and the guns that go with it. They are usually more than willing to discuss them and shotgunning in general and gun and gage selection. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they would offer some instruction, and let you shoot some of their shotguns.

You will find lots of advice and lots of opinions here, and there are lots of folks that are much more knowledgeable than I am. Try not to be overwhelmed, it is a big subject.

 

[nitestocker]

like the man said above id get a 20 there are a lot of good shot guns out there. the 870 the mossberg 500 and the benelli nova. i have a rem 870 express in 12 ga .and a benelli nova 20 ga and its very lite and swings nice. it ways just over 6 pounds and does not kick the heck out of you. and you can use magnums in the 20 . in all three models if I'm correct . I'm a 220 pound man and i prefer the 20 for hunting ammo ways less as well the shotgun

 

[btg3]

+1 for 20ga. The pump will be less expensive, but you may want to consider semi-automatic unless you're confident of using a pump.

You may be close enough to another THR member to get together and try out a few guns. Your location?

Regarding trigger actions, this link may be of help: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=248556

 

[oldrevolverguy]

Welcome

I started my 8 year old son and my wife with a Mossberg 500 Super Bantam 20 ga. With a limbsaver slip on recoil pad, it is a nice combination of lightwieght, short and easy to handle, and mild recoiling. At $250.00 or so it is a lot of bang for the buck (no pun intended). It's absolute reliability and fast handling make it an excellent choice for home defense as well. Since getting into clay shooting, I have purchased a used Remington 1100 20 for them both. The recoil is milder and followup shots easier to deal with. I strongly suggest seeking professional instruction from an NRA certified instructor. That will go a long way towards helping you make an informed choice. It is great to hear of a responsible mom introducing her child to the shooting sports. I wish you the best of luck.

 

[czbegenner]

Rem 870 12 gauge would be the best in my mind.

 

[czbegenner]

oh buy the way walmart has the ammo at a very good price.I love my 870,i can fire all day if i choose to.and i dont get knocked down,just
takes time to get used to the weapon itself.Once your start firing for a while the Boom,and recoil will become second nature.Right now once i fire my 870,Boom,while the recoil is happening i can chamber another round.It took me a while to get there but the more i fired with my remy the better i became.And the same for my Glock 22 40 cal.It's
Like second nature to double tap with my hand gun.Now i need to work on a slight double tap with my remy

 

[Robert Hairless]

Really and truly you do not want armor piercing ammunition for home defense. You do want ammunition that will stop an attack without blasting through walls or other barriers and coming to rest who knows where. There's little chance that you'll be attacked by zombies. You want to be in complete control of whatever you do, as far as that's possible: there's your advantage and the best chance you have to prevail.

The shotgun is excellent for that purpose and others if you will take the time to learn how to use it. Good instruction from a competent instructor in the use of a defensive shotgun is part of the key to getting the right start. Once you get that instruction you should find that shotgun shooting is quite a lot of fun. That's good because when you enjoy shooting the shotgun you'll practice. Good instruction will show you what to practice and how to do it. Then you're on the way to that essential complete control I mentioned.

Major parts of the key is the way your shotgun fits you and the way you hold it. Get those two elements right and you'll probably be astonished to find that the shotgun's gauge isn't all that important. The reason is no great secret: the proper way to shoot a shotgun is to weld it into your body, but you can't do that if the shotgun doesn't quite fit your body or you can't hold it solidly into your body. Once you get the fit right and hold the shotgun right, your body rocks backwards a little with each shot instead of being battered by attempts to resist its power. Your body becomes a spring instead of an obstacle. Then you're on your way.

You've already received good advice about getting a 20 gauge shotgun. With proper ammunition (# 3 buckshot and/or slugs) you have roughly 75% of the hitting power from a 12 gauge shotgun with only about 50% of the preceived recoil. That's more than enough effective artillery power to launch down the 5- to 7-yard hallway in most homes. You shouldn't have any trouble controlling that power when the shotgun fits you and you hold it properly.

To get the right fit for your purposes from a mass produced shotgun, get one with what's called a "Youth" stock or "reduced length stock." It's an inch shorter than the standard factory length. That one inch will make the difference between a manageable shotgun and one that manages you. Fortunately Remington does sell both the 870 and the 1187--the two shotguns you should consider--with Youth stocks. If you can't find one shipped that way from the factory, it's easy to replace the standard stock with the Youth version. But you'll spend more money that way, so get your dealer to order the right shotgun--one with a Youth stock.

The 870 is a slide-action shotgun, often called a "pump shotgun," because you feed each shell manually by pumping the forend. It's more reliable than the semi-automatic 1187 but it's a bit harder to learn. Since everything is a compromise, the tradeoff here is that the semi-auto absolutely requires thorough cleaning and maintenance after every shooting session, and if it's not done you will find that the 1187 becomes less reliable and will need repairs. The 870, however, doesn't require much in the way of cleaning or maintenance to be reliable.

I suggest that you get a 20 gauge Remington 870 with a Youth stock, then get good instruction from a competent instructor who understands the requirements of home defense. Once you have that instruction, start practicing with that shotgun and be prepared to amaze yourself and everyone who sees you. No joke. There are few sights worth seeing as much as a mild mannered woman pick up her shotgun and go to town with it. I most like to watch the faces of any really big men who observe it for the first time.

Don't fear your shotgun. It's a tool that you can control: no doubt about it. Once you do control it, it's also a great source of pleasure. Like any other skill, there's joy in using and improving it. Shouldn't take long either when you get the right start.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Hi, tiggerbaby, and welcome to THR.

I'm afraid I can't offer you a whole lot of encouragement on that armor piercing thing either, Shotguns tend to be pretty low velocity firearms, given their relatively large bores, and high velocity is generally needed for anti-armor work. If it helps any, you aren't likely to really need to shoot through armor under normal circumstances, and if you are ever confronted with a body-armor wearing assailant, the impact of properly selected and accurately delivered shotgun projectiles on that body armor is going to be... disconcerting... at the very least.

Recoil is indeed the single biggest issue with shotguns as a defensive weapon. But there are ways to overcome that, often enough. My wife is your average university professor, in her early 60s, 5'4" tall, about 125 pounds. She can handle a 12 gauge just fine.

The 'secrets' to that are proper gun fit, a premium recoil pad and training and practice in proper technique. The "house guns" here are all Remington 870 pumps, first for commonality and second because good used 870s are relatively plentiful and pretty inexpensive. We have several because they are secreted in hidey holes in different places in the house. That way neither one of us can be cut off from a shotgun by someone with ill intent entering either doors or windows. We both carry pocket pistols at home but there's nothing like a long gun when you really need a gun. We have no children in the home, BTW, and when we both leave the house the guns are put back in the safe.

From a hardware standpoint, the 870s here have stocks that were shortened to 12.5" length of pull, including a KickEez or LimbSaver recoil pad. The current Remington R3 pad is a premium pad, BTW, and does not need an upgrade- just a refit if the stock needs shortening.

Most shotgun stocks are too long from the factory for many shooters. It's easier to use a shotgun stocked too short than one that is too long- I'm 6'3" and wear a 37" sleeve, and have no trouble using the abbreviated Remingtons here. The only difference in form is keeping the shooting hand's thumb safely parked on the trigger finger knuckle to avoid nose-bashing under recoil.

Barrels are 18- 20", some with bead sights, some with rifle type sights. It doesn't matter that much IMHO what kind of sights are on a defensive shotgun, it's a shooter preference sort of thing. There are no magazine extensions- my wife says they add too much weight out front ahead of the support hand and make the gun muzzle heavy and harder to hold up.

Each gun has a standard field length (9" IIRC) forearm as opposed to the shorter 'law enforcement' length- that makes it easier for shorter arms to reach and operate without over-extending. The guns have 4-shot Sidesaddles mounted on the receiver to hold extra ammo. In our case the Sidesaddles hold slugs, while the magazines are loaded with 00 buckshot. With magazines loaded one round short and chambers empty, it is easy to load a slug first if that happens to be called for.

Each gun has a simple light rail mounted to a ring that goes under the magazine cap, to provide a mount for a pistol type rail mounted light (see http://www.streamlight-flashlights.com/69906.html for pic). IMHO a defensive shotgun needs to have everything mounted on it you might need when you pick it up, and that includes a white light source and extra ammo. I think the new generaion LED rail lights are better for use on shotguns- shotgun recoil tends to be hard on filament type bulbs.

If a 12 gauge seems too much for you, I suggest a good gas-operated semiauto in 20 gauge might work better. Not a pump- 20 gauge guns tend to be lighter overall in weight than 12s, and there is a lot narrower selection of loads available in 20 gauge than in 12. The combination of a gun that weighs less and a heavier load means more felt recoil.

The variety of reduced recoil 12 gauge defensive loads available is very wide, and reduced recoil 12 gauge loads in a slightly heavier 12 gauge pump will kick less than most 20 gauge guns. Gun fit is still critical though, even with a 20 ga. gas operated semiauto. The down side to semiautos is that they tend to be about twice as expensive as a pump.

I suggest to women as a matter of course that they seek out other women for firearms training. I think it just works better. Other folks disagree- they're as entitled to their opinion as I am to mine, I think. I suggest you spend some time at sites like http://www.womenandguns.com/ and http://www.corneredcat.com/ . There are a lot of women out there who enjoy the shooting sports, and a lot who take defending themselves and their families as a matter of course. It might help to 'get to know' some of them, even if only electronically.

If you're a beginner, first you have to learn to shoot, then you have to learn to FIGHT with a shotgun. The NRA has instructors in many areas who offer basic firearms classes, including shotgun. I suggest taking the NRA Personal Protection In The Home class as a starting point for the transition from shooting to fighting- see http://www.nrahq.org/education/training/basictraining.asp to find out if there is an instructor near you teaching these classes.

Best wishes, and Stay Safe,

lpl/nc

 

[Mr Bernoulli]

Go with a 12 ga. Rem 870! There are tons of different variations to this model thus having many different prices... If your looking for the cheapest start looking at the express models. When shooting you will probabally be using 2 3/4 and the recoil on those is not bad at all. I had my 5'4" petit girlfriend shoot and recoil was not even bad for her. However the noise did scare her lol but thats a different story... 12 ga. is the way to go though because of the variety of the loads you can choose from. If your son ever decides to go hunting this gauge is the perfect hunting gague, not to big or small for anything. For the brand you can never go wrong with a remington either... I have owned a mossberg and I own a 870. The rem by far beats it in quality, pointability etc... You want quality when you buy. Here is another argument rem receivers are made of steel mossbergs of aluminum... I want my shotgun to last me a lifetime and like my chances better with the steel... If you move up to 3" loads or 3 1/2" loads (if you get a 870 supermag) then the recoils on those can be a little more stout. So if you try one or both of these and dont like the recoil you can always get a nice recoil pad. The sims limbsavers are by far the best and will reduce alot of recoil. Good luck let me know what you decide! If you have any questions message me.

 

[ronto]

The 20ga Mossberg 500 because:
-Ease of operation due to the physical location of the safety and slide release.
-Easy to load...shell elevator does not get in the way.
-5 round standard magazine capacity.
-Duel shell ejectors.
-As reliable as you can get and proven with many years of use in harsh enviornments.
-$209.95 at Wal-Mart.

 

[okiewita40]

I hope you get a chance to shoot a bunch of different shotguns in both ga, action and shot size before you make up your mind. Now here is a quick story for you.

In my department we have a very small lady that has to qualify every year with the shotgun just like we all do. She all of about 4' 9" and weighs about 90 pounds soaking wet. The only thing we have done for her was to take an old stock that was cracked at the butt end and cut approx. 1 1/2 - 2" off of it and reinstalled the butt pad. This mostly being for her to be able to reach the forearm/pump. This is a Remington 870 police magnum 12ga with full power loads of both 00 buck shot and slugs.

I have confidence that whatever you chose you'll be happy with. Just practice, get some professional instruction and most of all be safe.

 

[czbegenner]

i bet she is a great shot