negligent discharge

[MedWheeler]

One other thing to remember about the Bersa: On some samples, mine included, if you slam a loaded magazine in while the slide is locked rearward, the slide will snap forward. This will, of course, chamber a round and leave the hammer cocked (if the safety is not on.)

 

[JSpear]

Glad everyone is ok, and thanks for posting, I always value a reminder on safety!

 

[Ramone]

Since I was very young, I have always 'double racked' an action when clearing a weapon. I never knew why- it was just what I was taught.

When I was in the USMC, a PL asked me why I did it like that- I told him I didn't know, but a senior NCO pointed out that if I racked it once with a magazine seated, I'd have one in the chamber- if I did it twice, I'd see (hopefully) the round eject, and know I was loaded instead of safe.

In years since, I have done just that, a time or three, and it has served me well.

 

[kb58]

...When you racked the slide, the recoil from the slide hitting home actually shoved the trigger into your finger. It'll happen every time...if your finger is where it's not supposed to be.

I agree that this is most likely the cause. The impact of the forward-moving slide imparts its momentum to the frame, jerking the entire pistol forward. If your trigger finger is resting lightly against the trigger, the pistol jerking forward effectively "pulls" the trigger.

 

[BCRider]

I'm late to the game on this but I'd like to second, third or fifth the idea that you learn to flag your trigger finger high on the slide whenever handling any gun other than when aiming it for a shot.

What you found occured with your ND is exactly why it's an instant DQ or warning leading to a DQ in an IPSC or IDPA match.

Learning to keep your trigger finger flagged out along the slide could also save you a perforated leg. I've heard of two accidental injuries caused by the shooter having their trigger finger still on the trigger when they holstered the gun. Conditioning yourself to flag that booger picker on the slide or out along the cylinder of a revolver all the time unless actually aiming for a shot could well save you the next ND running down inside your leg. And if you have a habit of using the inside of the trigger guard as a handy place to rest your trigger finger this could possibly happen all too easily.

Hell, since I got into shooting I even flag my finger in this way when carrying my power tools around. I didn't even notice I was doing this at first. But then I started doing it on purpose just to further condition myself into this rather good habit.

 

[Claude Clay]

mechanically a firing pin may go foward (depending on its taper, it may go w.a.y foward) and closing the slide with the slide stop or slinging it, if there is a round in the chamber it can fire.
this is usually caused in combination; old firing pin spring and gunked up firing pin channel.
the de-cocker on the bersa is mechanically blocking the firing pin so no troubles there---unlike a cz52 where they are know to malfunction.

so i ask you---how many rounds through it with the firing pin spring and how long since the firing pin channel was cleaned?

another reason for the --ease the slide, snap the trigger way to handle a semi-auto.

-------
as for a loaded gun mixed in with others, for decades i've simply placed 2 ( 2 cause one could break) green rubberbands around the loaded guns. and a gun in a holster is loaded.

 

[Mrcymstr]

...
Hell, since I got into shooting I even flag my finger in this way when carrying my power tools around. I didn't even notice I was doing this at first. But then I started doing it on purpose just to further condition myself into this rather good habit.

^ ha I thought I was the only one. I've caught myself indexing on windex bottles too...

 

[Warp]

I index everything as well. Power tools especially. It's a good habit.

 

[skeeziks]

Quote= "as for a loaded gun mixed in with others, for decades i've simply placed 2 ( 2 cause one could break) green rubberbands around the loaded guns. and a gun in a holster is loaded."
=======================================

Let me ask you.... if you picked up one of your guns without a rubber band, would you handle the gun any differently than you would a loaded one?
More specifically, I ask you...would the very first thing you do, after pointing the muzzle in a safe direction, be to open the action and visually check for an empty chamber and magazine?

I am totally against this idea of "marked" guns to identify whether-or-not they're loaded.
As far as we all should be concerned...Every gun is ALWAYS loaded, ALL the time.
It may seem like O.C.D. when I check the action again even tho I just checked it 10-seconds ago, but the repitition is good for the brain. We need to train the brain.

 

[Warp]

as for a loaded gun mixed in with others, for decades i've simply placed 2 ( 2 cause one could break) green rubberbands around the loaded guns. and a gun in a holster is loaded.

Sounds like some rule #1 violations, if nothing else.

The way I was taught and trained you always treat every gun as if it were loaded. The only possible exception is when you have personally checked the gun, both visually and physically, and the action is open. And every single time you pick it up, even if you just set it down on the table 30 seconds ago, you check it again.

 

[kb58]

I just realized that this is probably a perfect demonstration of how to "bump-fire."

Just not on purpose...

 

[skeeziks]

Quote= "The only possible exception is when you have personally checked the gun, both visually and physically, and the action is open."

I feel there are No exceptions to this rule. Even if the action is open, and you know there is no possible way for the gun to go off, you still treat it like it were loaded for the purpose of "brain imprinting."
If we don't train our brains in this way (mine was trained before I turned 9) there may come a day when we are not aware which condition we are in at that time.
If our brains (and muscle memory) are trained to always do the same every time, then if it should ever occur that our weapon is loaded when we thought it wasn't, we won't have a ND.
This is how we avoid disasters.

 

[aeriedad]

-------
as for a loaded gun mixed in with others, for decades i've simply placed 2 ( 2 cause one could break) green rubberbands around the loaded guns. and a gun in a holster is loaded.

Let me ask you.... if you picked up one of your guns without a rubber band, would you handle the gun any differently than you would a loaded one?
More specifically, I ask you...would the very first thing you do, after pointing the muzzle in a safe direction, be to open the action and visually check for an empty chamber and magazine?

I am totally against this idea of "marked" guns to identify whether-or-not they're loaded.
As far as we all should be concerned...Every gun is ALWAYS loaded, ALL the time.

Sounds like some rule #1 violations, if nothing else.

The way I was taught and trained you always treat every gun as if it were loaded. The only possible exception is when you have personally checked the gun, both visually and physically, and the action is open. And every single time you pick it up, even if you just set it down on the table 30 seconds ago, you check it again.

If you had to draw in a self-defense emergency, would you unload, visually and physically check for an unloaded chamber, then reload before aligning your front sight on the bad guy? Or do you maybe carry with one in the chamber like most armed citizens do?

I understood Claude's reason for conspicuously marking his loaded guns was so that if he had to grab one in a hurry, and he had to know a trigger pull would make it go bang, he wouldn't have to do a function check or fumble with ammunition first. The holster or the green rubber band would serve as a reliable shortcut if he is consistent in this practice. Sure, treat them all as if they're loaded in routine handling, but in an emergency, you don't want to have any doubt.

Of course I could be reading too much into what Claude is saying, but if I were to do as he suggests, it could only be for the reasons I've stated here.

 

[Warp]

I feel there are No exceptions to this rule. Even if the action is open, and you know there is no possible way for the gun to go off, you still treat it like it were loaded for the purpose of "brain imprinting."
If we don't train our brains in this way (mine was trained before I turned 9) there may come a day when we are not aware which condition we are in at that time.
If our brains (and muscle memory) are trained to always do the same every time, then if it should ever occur that our weapon is loaded when we thought it wasn't, we won't have a ND.
This is how we avoid disasters.

You have to have exceptions to the rule. Long story short, in the real world it is quite impossible to always have a gun pointed in a completely safe direction.

If you had to draw in a self-defense emergency, would you unload, visually and physically check for an unloaded chamber, then reload before aligning your front sight on the bad guy? Or do you maybe carry with one in the chamber like most armed citizens do?

If I have to draw my carry gun in self defense I assume it is loaded and treat it as such. This perfectly follows what I posted (always treat guns as if they are loaded).

I haven't the slightest clue why you are asking this, or what point it is that you think you are trying to make.

 

[Warp]

BTW: Another exception to a rule is rule #3. "Keep your finger off the trigger and out of the trigger guard until your sites are on target and you are preparing to fire."

Well, there are times to dry fire guns, and there are times to pull the trigger in order to decock guns, both of which technically violate rule #3. But they must be done. So you triple-check for everything else so that even if they did fire, nobody would be hurt, and then you intentionally and technically violate the rule.

 

[aeriedad]

If I have to draw my carry gun in self defense I assume it is loaded and treat it as such. This perfectly follows what I posted (always treat guns as if they are loaded).

I haven't the slightest clue why you are asking this, or what point it is that you think you are trying to make.

It all relates back to Claude Clay's scenario in Post #31. If you have known-loaded guns with assumed-loaded guns (aka, probably unloaded), you might want to have an easy way to quickly identify the known-loaded guns(s) in case of emergency. You don't have that problem with your EDC because that's what it's there for. In an emergency, you don't want to reach into your safe (or walk into your safe room) and take too much time identifying which weapons are known to be loaded. Of course you assume every weapon is loaded in routine handling, but in an emergency you want extra assurance that your weapon is loaded. A holster or a green rubber band can help provide that assurance.

I don't practice this because I only have four handguns, and except for between strings of fire two or three Saturdays a month, they are always loaded.

 

[Warp]

It all relates back to Claude Clay's scenario in Post #31. If you have known-loaded guns with assumed-loaded guns (aka, probably unloaded), you might want to have an easy way to quickly identify the known-loaded guns(s) in case of emergency. You don't have that problem with your EDC because that's what it's there for. In an emergency, you don't want to reach into your safe (or walk into your safe room) and take too much time identifying which weapons are known to be loaded. Of course you assume every weapon is loaded in routine handling, but in an emergency you want extra assurance that your weapon is loaded. A holster or a green rubber band can help provide that assurance.

I don't practice this because I only have four handguns, and except for between strings of fire two or three Saturdays a month, they are always loaded.

Okay. That DOES make sense.

I'm with you, though, in that I don't have that problem because mine are all loaded, or they are in a location/condition where I would never expect to be able to pick them up and use them defensively (like the GP100 still in the range bag from today's trip, not yet cleaned and reloaded). Generally they are all loaded. (5 handguns)

 

[EddieNFL]

Well, there are times to dry fire guns, and there are times to pull the trigger in order to decock guns, both of which technically violate rule #3.

Not if you follow rule two.

 

[WALKERs210]

After reading this post and especially the handgun being a Bersa 380 I had to find out if mine might have a problem. I just went to the back 40 and did everything except for putting finger on trigger to see if the pistol would discharge. I tried removing the mag, took the safety off then reinsert mag, racked gun "OK" then I repeated process with the hammer fully back, safety off insert mag, racked "OK". Basicly I attempted to recreate possible cause but it never happened this time to mine.

 

[Warp]

Not if you follow rule two.

Yes, even if you follow rule 2. Breaking rule 3 is breaking rule 3. That is why we make exceptions. Absolutes usually don't work.

If you pull the trigger when you do not intend to fire, you have violated rule #3. Unless, that is, you make an exception and and put it outside of the rule. Dry firing a Glock, in a safe direction, in order to field strip it...that is an exception even though, technically, by the letter of rule 3, it is a violation. Same with decocking a cocked single action revolver or similar, or testing the function of a firearm after dis/reassembly.

 

[THe Dove]

my finger was on the trigger

Don't do that till you're ready for it to go bang...... Especially when you just want to rack the slide.

The Dove

 

[taraquian]

The truly bad part isthat the Bersa IS always loaded, and I checked the mag and chamber of the proceeding 4 guns. I also index but I place my finger on the OUTside of the triggerguard. Why I failed two rules at the same time on the only loadedweapon in the house is what drives me batty.

I have posted the 4 rules above my pistols and highlighted #3. As far as the weapon it is kept clean and in great repair,but I should probably replace therest of the springs given howmany rounds sheshad.

Or maybe I'll just by a new one

 

[loneviking]

The Bersa, Browning BDA and Beretta 84F can all be damaged by racking the slide with the safety engaged. That damage can include that midpoint between safe and fire. Get the gun checked at an authorized gunsmith asap!

 

[Scout Dork]

Thanks for posting. Makes me want to practice with a Beretta 950 .25 my Significant Other traded for my LCP.

Thankfully you didn't injure anyone, and at least you're not at the FBI HQ.
http://www.kvia.com/news/31099130/detail.html

 

[EddieNFL]

Dry firing a Glock, in a safe direction, in order to field strip it...that is an exception even though, technically, by the letter of rule 3, it is a violation.

So it was in a safe direction, you intended to pull the trigger and you still violated both rules? Interesting train of thought. I'm guessing you "knew" the Glock was empty before you pulled the trigger therefore violating rule one, also.