Never-ever-ever go down on your knees

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I know one of the investigating officers....
case has made a huge impact on him... details haven't been released yet, but it sounds like the perp. was a cold blooded slime ball...

note to self.... never-ever-ever go down on my knees... die fighting on my feet and hopefully buying time for my loved ones to flee.

http://www.maineville.com/detail/132700.html

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Arrest made in double slaying

By Nok-Noi Rickerand Nick Sambides Jr.
BDN Staff

WEBSTER PLANTATION, Maine — A Burlington man and former Penobscot Valley High School wrestler was being held without bail Sunday on charges he killed a Webster Plantation couple last month in an apparent robbery gone wrong.

Nathaneal K. Nightingale, 31, was taken into custody by Maine State Police detectives at 1 a.m. Saturday at his Fogg Lane home in Burlington, according to Maine Department of Public Safety spokesman Stephen McCausland. He was charged with two counts of murder in connection with the Nov. 28 shooting deaths of Michael Miller Sr. and Valerie Miller, both 47.

The couple were found just before 1 p.m. Nov. 28 in the kitchen of their Tucker Ridge Road mobile home by a visiting friend who called 911 because no one answered the door, McCausland has said.

McCausland said Saturday he was not sure if Nightingale was the man who reportedly discovered the bodies.

“He was the one who gave the information for the composite [sketch] that was done,” McCausland said.

Nightingale told police he was a family acquaintance of the Millers and sat with a forensic artist to create a composite sketch of a suspect woman who is not believed to exist, state police said.

Witnesses have said Michael Miller had at least one bullet wound to the back of the neck, while his wife had a wound to her temple. Family members have said that police told them Miller was found face-up on the floor of his kitchen, his legs tucked behind him. Valerie Miller was next to him, her head on his chest.
Both wounds apparently drew very little visible blood, at least as could be seen from the outside of the home. The Lee Fire Department was called to the scene because police feared the two might have died from carbon monoxide poisoning. Carbon monoxide tests were negative.

State police have not described the wounds or the positioning of the bodies, nor are they releasing information about the type of weapon used, including whether it was a handgun or rifle, McCausland said Sunday.

“It’s not something we’re going to release at this point,” he said.

Michael Miller was a recently laid-off mill worker; Valerie Miller, a housewife.

Nightingale was taken to Penobscot County Jail in Bangor after his arrest Saturday morning and is expected to have his first court appearance and bail hearing early this week.

Police would not reveal if evidence tying him to the crime was found at his home.

“Details of the case we’re not talking about at this point,” McCausland said.

A criminal history check Sunday revealed Nightingale has one prior conviction for operating under the influence in Rangeley in May 2005 for which he paid a $500 fine.

News of the arrest reached mourners at the funeral service for the Millers at Clay Funeral Home on Saturday. About 50 people attended, including Michael Miller Jr., one of the couple’s sons, with his fiancee, Alexis Lord, at his side.

The Millers’ other son, Matthew, also attended the service. He is serving a 30-day sentence at the Piscataquis County Jail for passing bad checks, court officials said, but was allowed to attend the service. He is due to be released on Dec. 27.

Michael Miller Jr. declined through an intermediary to comment on news of the arrest.

Nightingale is a 1997 graduate of Penobscot Valley High School in Howland and was a member of the Howlers’ wrestling team that won 72 straight meets. His team was among those that had won five consecutive state titles and two Penobscot Valley Conference crowns and ranked among the top 50 high schools nationally.

He also had won a scholarship upon graduation from Hallett’s Doors and Windows.
 
Yep, I decided for myself a long time ago that I would never get on my knees or lay face down and I would never be herded to a back room without a good fight.
 
From another article on the crime:

No one interviewed in Burlington on Sunday recalled the Millers or knew of the connection between them and Nightingale, but they confirmed that he is a first cousin of Alexis Lord. She is the fiancee of Michael Miller Jr., one of the Millers’ sons, and a daughter of a sister of Beth Coyle, Nightingale’s mother.

Looks like there are few details to investigate.
 
the population of the town is something like 800...

and this is a very rural area.... so I suspect a lot of folks are related to each other up there.

Looks like there are few details to investigate.

I'm not sure, but they seem to have wrapped this up pretty quickly.... I suspect they may have obtained a confession.
 
Not sure of why all the focus on the perp being a wrestler. It sounds like the press when they report on a accident that involved an SUV. Its almost like the model of auto was responsible and the sport caused him to be a killer.
 
Not sure of why all the focus on the perp being a wrestler

I think they're just rehashing the same 'ol "we don't understand how anyone could do such a thing, he was such a good boy" line...

Time to discover the doctrine of origonal sin folks....

most people I know who are raising or have raised young children are convinced of it....
 
Yea it seems they could look at a lot in a guys past that is 31 yrs old.
As far as getting on your knees or any other submissive act to a gunman. In my mind i say I will never do it, but then there is no guarantee that I will be by myself. The story has a man and his wife, what I thought I could do for her might change how I acted one way or the other.
 
I sometimes practice defensive shooting while dropping to a squat. Not onto my knees, but I am tall so it is useful to make me a smaller target when there is no good cover.

It can also be useful in a situation where the backstop is crowded with innocents. In case of a pass through shot my line of fire is upwards, over their heads.

In addition to all that people don't tend to use the sights when shooting in adrenaline filled circumstances. They index off top of the barrel and point the gun at their target. This gives them no sense of elevation, only windage. I find that I generally miss high or low in such circumstances. The smaller a target is vertically the harder it is to hit.
 
Unless of course the only safe trajectory of the bullet is up and at an angle then getting on your knee before shooting is in order. Walking out of a store last week, I saw to sketchy looking dudes minding their own business, and about 15-20 feet beyond them were a mom and her kid... all 4 of the people (sketchy dudes and mom/kid) were up against (or within inches) of a large CMU wall. The only safe shot would have been if I dropped to my knee and fired up. :)
 
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The story has a man and his wife, what I thought I could do for her might change how I acted one way or the other.

and that's really the heart of what I was thinking when I posted this thread...

if this guy went down on his knees to save his wife.... it didn't work!

bullet wounds appear to have been small, with very little blood... they initially thought the house had a CO leak and called in the fire dept.

my guess is .22 cal hand gun... execution style to the head...

the husband appears from the photo's to have been a big burly 'ol boy...

toggle a big boy like that into raging bull mode and I think that there may still have been two dead bodies.... but the other would have been the perp. and not the wife.

Coercion really, really is insidious, evil and cruel.... The Nazis were masters of it and I've read many accounts of their cruel dealings.... even with their own Arian countrymen....

If an evil actor is using coercion to make you do something... it's because they are not yet in possession or control of what they really want...

Going along enables them to put you at a further disadvantage...

I shake in my boots just to think how messed up my judgment and decision making ability would be if my wife or kids lives were threatened in such a way... so I subscribe to the "line is the sand" line of thinking... where by you make decisions ahead of time about what you will never do...

I think this may actually support your disadvantaged position, as the perp. doesn't know where your "battle lines" are drawn and may blunder across one with his attention focused somewhere else... putting the initiative in your court... but only if you react to the trip wire.
 
Carrying in the home may have enabled the victims to realize a different outcome....

but then again... it sounds like they knew the guy and may have been tricked into a soft response
 
This same question has crossed my mind when thinking security of my home as well as possessions. The discussions on safes, kick proof doors, and saferooms never take into account what you will do with a gun stuck in your kid or wife's ear do they?
The decision made in that moment of time will have repercussions for all who survive one way or the other.
There is evil with no boundaries in some criminals I just hope to avoid those if possible.
 
You know, "never" or "always" are not very wise conditions to set while readying mentally for a defensive encounter. Looking at something like this and generalizing it is about as useful as looking at a botched SWAT raid and saying "Never shoot an intruder in your home!"

No, what's necessary is honing your intuition by providing your conscious mind with more information to assimilate and being able to assess situations on the fly. Not making ridiculous statements that say "never do this, EVER."
 
Having a line in the sand is one thing. Being able to decide how to play your hand after that line has been crossed is another. Seeing someone heading toward the line & picking their foot up to cross it is still another.

We can do our best to honor these people by learning as much as we can from their situation. If this gets someone else to wake up, assess themselves & make a plan of their own the loss won't be entirely in vain.

This is a very unfortunate & sad incident for these two & their family.
 
That's why I practice injuring people from all positions: standing, sitting, one knee, 2 knees, laying down (front/back).

Down on both knees sucks though, that's why a criminal wants you there. Very limited mobility, takes effort to get up. One knee is a pretty mobile platform if you are practiced working from there.

Better, obviously, never to let things get to that point...but if for whatever reason you can't injure them yet and complying with the "get down on your knees" order draws them in close to execute you, giving you an opportunity you didn't have before, well that's why I never say never.

Monday morning QB-ing is easy and what-if-ing breaks down fast in the face of all possible variables. The best thing you can do is train with lots of realistic variables. If/when the unthinkable happens; you should have a one track mind working on the problem of how to injure them until they are no longer a threat.
 
That's why I practice injuring people from all positions:

If it comes to using a firearm, I only practice to STOP them. Injuring is not even considered. If they are lucky enough to be alive AND stop the threat they pose on me, then good for them and me.
 
This is what happens when you follow the advice, "Just give them what they want. Don't resist."

You would think after 9/11 that advice and attitude would have changed. When will people learn that being passive only encourages evil men?

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

I ain't goin' out like that.
 
If it comes to using a firearm, I only practice to STOP them. Injuring is not even considered.
Aside from them deciding to quit...injury is the only thing that stops them. Body parts not working right (vascular system, central nervous system, skeletal system). Regarding firearms, the whole point of shot placement is to increase injury potential...thereby increasing the chance they stop (in a somewhat timely fashion-hopefully).;)

So, yes, legally all you care is they stop which is why you shoot center chest etc. Operationally (physically), you better be making things not function or they will do it to you and yours, 1st and better, just like the story above.

Injury with a bullet strike is a given, injury with empty hand techniques is not a given as most styles focus on the practitioner and how they look and move (i.e perform that style), not on the end result (injury) irregardless of what it looked like.

From my knees I can slam my torso down (actually hip bone is best) on his ankle (falling on it) breaking it and hopefully causing head trauma as he hits the floor. Keep rolling towards the threat, elbow to groin, grab skull and tear out his eye w/ my other hand-thumb as he convulses forward from the groin strike, stand up and stomp his neck. That ought to stop him from executing us.

Just an off the top of my head example of how to injure someone from your knees before they execute you (if they are close). If he knocks his head on the floor so hard he is unconscious when I fall on and break his ankle, then the rest of that won't be needed, just like your firearm example of someone stopping, not dying.

Violence is ugly and brutal. You survive by doing it to them 1st. Of course, you stop when you feel they are no longer a threat. If they quit after minor injury, so be it. Get away and to safety, call 911.
 
This same question has crossed my mind when thinking security of my home as well as possessions. The discussions on safes, kick proof doors, and saferooms never take into account what you will do with a gun stuck in your kid or wife's ear do they?
The decision made in that moment of time will have repercussions for all who survive one way or the other.
There is evil with no boundaries in some criminals I just hope to avoid those if possible.

The TV show Best Defense covers this scenario sometimes. (gun to head). The alternatives arent pretty and depend on variables as well, but they do make some recommendations. It's more a matter of being prepared, knowing your options and being able to make difficult decisions fast. (mindset).

I think it's Best Defense, there's a few shows doing this kind of stuff now.
 
Violence is ugly and brutal. .

When I need a reminder of this....how fast and brutal and real and thoughtless....I watch an episode of Oz. I think it depicts criminals & their mindset in a very realistic light.

Even if not completely realistic, it gives me the worst case benchmark to prepare for.
 
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