New 223 Rem Ruger American predator issue.

Waterboy3313

Waterboy3313

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Redding CA
I purchased a new Ruger American Predator 223 in Remington a few months ago. It's been sitting put away since I bought it because I haven't had the time to set it up. Sunday afternoon I decided to hand load a dummy round so I could start preparing for a load work up this week.

I started with a 69gr RMR BTHP loaded to mag length. It would not feed from the magazine. I seated it a little deeper and tried to chamber the round from the magazine again. I repeated this step several more times until it decided it would feed. After it would feed I still couldn't get the bolt to close.

Seated deeper and could eventually get the bolt to close but not easily like it should. I also tried the same thing with a Hornady 40gr Vmax bullet. By the time I could close the bolt the bullet was about ready to fall into the case.

I will have time to look back into this tonight but it's kind of driving me crazy. I'm wondering if the head space is wrong or something else I'm not seeing. Any suggestions before I ship it back to ruger would be greatly appreciated. I really don't want to do that if I don't have to.
 
I think I remember that some of those 223 chambered Americans had really short throats. Might want to see if it'll feed factory ammo, if not, just contact Ruger straight away.
 
So I took the same lot of my resized brass and bumped it back just short of denting the case. I seated a different 69gr RMR bullet and got away with 2.180 OAL.
With the seating knob cranked all the way in and the base of the die touching the shell plate I had to actually chuck the seating die in my lathe and trim off about 0.060 from the base of the die to get that short.

The first thing I did was find a 55gr frontier factory round and checked that it would chamber and it did. I guess this chamber is just on the short side. My other 223 rems like between 2.250 and 2.245 OAL. I have 3 RARs, 6.5 creedmoor, 223 and 22lr. I have not tried this 223 rem yet but the other 2 a very decent for the price. I obviously don't load 22LR and I only load for 1 6.5 creedmoor. So I guess the 223 is the only other chamber I can compare my hand loads to and it looks a little short in my opinion.
 
Does factory 223 chamber? If so, check your crimp. I bet if you lighten your crimp you’ll find your reloads feed and chamber like butter! 😀 I was having a similar problem with my American ranch in 223
 
My dummy loads were not crimped at all. The factory 55gr frontier stuff chambers nicely. I guess this one is just much more finicky than my other stuff.
 
Try sizing a case and then chambering it w/o a bullet. Will the bolt close?

Next run a Frontier 55gr up into your seating die and then turn the stem down until you make contact with the bullet. Then try to seat one of the 69gr bullets to that length.
 
Try sizing a case and then chambering it w/o a bullet. Will the bolt close?

Next run a Frontier 55gr up into your seating die and then turn the stem down until you make contact with the bullet. Then try to seat one of the 69gr bullets to that length
Click to expand...

Did this today. Case is a pain to feed bolt feels stiff. Unlock bolt and pull back a little bit like 1/2-3/4" and push forward and lower bolt handle. It doesn't feel good but it seems to work. Set up seating die off of factory round 2.180 OAL (much shorter than anything else I have). Feels ok with dummy round and no crimp but not like what I would like.

2 things I noticed today. 1 the mag rocks around in the mag well a lot. In my opinion I call it sloppy. 2 the feed ramp looks like crap. I don't want to modify the feed ramp but a good polish without changing it looks like it might need to be done at a minimum.

Honestly I feel a little bit let down. I have 3 of these rifles and I'm very happy with the other two. This one seems to not be the quality of the other 2 I have. I also get that these are not high end by any means but the quality is borderline on this one if not unacceptable.
 
Sounds like the same issue my wife’s cousin had with his.

He sent it back twice, they never fixed it, wound up, upgrading him to the next level of rifle, that has the same issue.

Centerfire Ruger American owners.

Helping a cousin in law get into reloading for his Ruger American 6mm CM and showed him how to size the cases to the chamber then showing him how to establish the point where the bullet contacts the rifling. It was at this point I noticed that was well short (0.158”) from where factory...
www.thehighroad.org
 
I have a Ruger American Predator in .223 Rem, with the AR Mag set up. When loaded to mag length, the 69gr RMR bullet chambers fine. I have yet to measure the distance off the lands with this OAL, but I will when I get a chance and report back. My Predator shoots 50gr and 55gr Vmax pretty darn well.
 
I know this gonna sound screwy, but I've had several custom built rifles, having the barrels turned from blanks and having them chambered. On these rifles, there were some that wouldn't even chamber certain brands of factory ammunition and didn't like brass that was fire formed in another barrel or resized with some dies.

Maybe try doing a full length resizing with a different set of dies that are on the tighter side or shoot some of that factory ammo you have that chambers correctly and fire form that and try reloading those.

As good as Ruger customer service is supposed to be, I doubt that they're gonna try to fix the fact that your reloads won't work.

What dies are you using?
 
Are you setting the shoulder back enough with your reloads? I'd find a way to measure that, or try screwing you die down another 1/4 turn to see if the problem isn't with your brass..

TonyAngel said:
As good as Ruger customer service is supposed to be, I doubt that they're gonna try to fix the fact that your reloads won't work.
Click to expand...

The American barrels and chambers are cold hammer forged. Other than a light finish reaming in the chamber there isn't much machining done to screw something up. I'd at least bore scope it before I blamed the rifle.
 
I read this and first assume, and yea I know about assume but I think I am safe with this one. This guy, the OP sounds like he is a reloader, so I am going to pass on him making a mistake on that side of things.

Then I read this stuff:
LoonWulf said:
I think I remember that some of those 223 chambered Americans had really short throats. Might want to see if it'll feed factory ammo, if not, just contact Ruger straight away.
Click to expand...

InTheSwamp said:
Not unusual. I had to send one back to Ruger. That's my suggestion.
Click to expand...

jmorris said:
Sounds like the same issue my wife’s cousin had with his.

He sent it back twice, they never fixed it, wound up, upgrading him to the next level of rifle, that has the same issue.

Centerfire Ruger American owners.

Helping a cousin in law get into reloading for his Ruger American 6mm CM and showed him how to size the cases to the chamber then showing him how to establish the point where the bullet contacts the rifling. It was at this point I noticed that was well short (0.158”) from where factory...
www.thehighroad.org
Click to expand...

People know my view on Ruger.

Send it back, have them try to make it the way it should be when it left the factory, after you get it back and it works, move it down the road.

I say that and I have the HOTS for their 77-357. Not many people make a bolt 38/357 and I want one bad, every now and again I start to get week and think you know I should just order the thing, then a thread like this comes up and I come to my senses again.

Sorry OP for your issues, rest assured Ruger has that fantastic customer support, they need it.
 
I love my 77/357. Such a fun gun. Light, handy, and cheap to shoot. Go ahead order it. :)
Back to the subject. I have the RA Compact in .223 I haven't had any issues with my reloads in it. Using Redding dies and all sorts of mixed brass. If it feeds factory ammo I think you have to change something in your reloading setup for this rifle.
I've used various 50gr up to 69gr bullets in it.
 
So here is kind of a quick update. I have played with this thing everyday after work since I posted this. I have loaded several dummy rounds and have cycled them though this action as well as live factory rounds(very carefully).

It seems to me other than the feeding issue which seems be getting better with shorter OAL cartridges has slightly improved. If I run a dummy round that it likes from the magazine to the chamber it goes ok. Close the bolt it feels a bit tough. Open bolt pull back bolt enough to not quite eject round and run bolt forward again it feels better. After the round is seated to the cocked bolt and it is re chambered it seems to go in like it should and the bolt closes fine.

If it feeds ok on a cocked bolt it seems ok. Not going to say it feels like a well built custom rifle but it isn't that and I don't expect it. Could it be that the bolt/cocking mechanism is just so rough that it needs to be broken in? Take the bolt apart and clean, lube, polish? Clean polish feed ramp? Or fight it until.in "breaks in"?

I have said this is my 3rd RA style rifle. I also "Hand Load" not reload for about 5 different 223 Rem rifles. I am very careful and OCD about my loads. Accuracy is my goal. I am very accurate and my other 2 RAs are very good in my opinion for what they are. My other 223 rem as well as all my other hand loads are very high quality accurate rounds with zero issues. I think this rifle has issues or needs some break in time. It doesn't feel consistent yet but it does feel a little different everyday i have played with it.

I'm seriously on the fence with this one. Should I mail it back until I have had enough or should I spend the time and effort (even if it has to visit the smith) for a mediocre off the shelf budget rifle?

I just want to go punch holes in the same or very close to same ragged hole on a budget to make my high end buddies feel like their expensive custom stuff with box store ammo is questionable. I love out doing my friends with more dollars than cents. So far until this unit I have been winning. Should I go try to break it in or should I send it back? Like I said I'm having a hard time on this one.
 
Waterboy3313 said:
If I run a dummy round that it likes from the magazine to the chamber it goes ok. Close the bolt it feels a bit tough. Open bolt pull back bolt enough to not quite eject round and run bolt forward again it feels better. After the round is seated to the cocked bolt and it is re chambered it seems to go in like it should and the bolt closes fine.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you're sizing the round in the chamber.

Waterboy3313 said:
Could it be that the bolt/cocking mechanism is just so rough that it needs to be broken in? Take the bolt apart and clean, lube, polish? Clean polish feed ramp? Or fight it until.in "breaks in"?
Click to expand...

My American felt rough when new. I have about 200 rounds through it now, and I remember thinking it was a little bit smoother last time I had it out.
 
ditmo said:
I love my 77/357. Such a fun gun. Light, handy, and cheap to shoot. Go ahead order it. :)
Back to the subject. I have the RA Compact in .223 I haven't had any issues with my reloads in it. Using Redding dies and all sorts of mixed brass. If it feeds factory ammo I think you have to change something in your reloading setup for this rifle.
I've used various 50gr up to 69gr bullets in it.
Click to expand...
YOU ARE NOT HELPING.
 
Sounds like you're sizing the round in the chamber
Click to expand...
Resizing in a full length Resizing die. I keep my dies set up so that I'm not needing to start over every time. I started with my standard setup that works fine for all of my other 223 rems. I have adjusted the die down by about a 1/4 turn until it eventually bottoms out against the shell holder. I have done this 3 times this week on separate days with 3 different types of brass (Hornady, Norma and my first choice of Lake City)

My loads are proven to work in my opinion in several rifles. I use the same equipment every time to produce those results. I am confident in my ability to load 223 Rem as I have loaded thousands of successful rounds with out any failures.
 
A different chamber…well, is a different chamber.

If you are unsure what’s causing interference forget the “dummy round” and start with just a sized case.

Strip the bolt down and try this method, you will know if its the case at this point. If the bolt handle drops freely (probably will if the amount of sizing works in a number of other .223 rifles) you can check that box and focus on the actual cause of the problem.

www.youtube.com

Setting size die for bolt action rifle.

www.youtube.com www.youtube.com

Your not going to size the case in the chamber but you might be shoving the bullet deeper into the case and that resistance could be lost.

Why it’s best to start at the beginning and test along the way. If you come across an issue and you know everything checked out before that last step you performed, that’s a pretty solid tell, as to what caused the problem.
 
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