New .308 saiga, some conversion questions.

[jojo200517]

Ok so it finally arrived and I picked up my new .308 saiga today at the local FFL. I been wanting one of these for a while. Ordered from classicarms.us for $499.99 + shipping. $523.11 total. While I would have appreciated some kinda email saying it had been shipped and the total with the shipping I do feel that they did charge a pretty fair price. Ordered saturday night so it didn't actually ship until monday, arrived at FFL sometime yesterday.

Anyway enough about that. I didn't buy it to keep it stock looking tho I do plan on shooting it as is and seeing what it likes and ensuring function before I do any work on it. I'm trying to still decide how much I want to do it ot as far as furniture, rails, optic mounts, muzzle devices etc. Of course already waiting so long on getting one I had already found some things I was fond of and am hoping someone can give me some yay's and na's on the items.

Starting at the muzzle end of the weapon I'd like to find some type of nice break or at least flash hider. I seen there were 2 kinds, either thread it and screw one on or a clamp on kind that went around the front sight. The issue I have is there is very little (maybe 1/16th inch) of muzzle prodruding past the front sight base. It would appear that the end portion of the barrel is turned down for the front sight base to fit on it. Either way its looking like a gunsmith might be required for this, unless there is some type of combo FSB and muzzle break all in one. Any suggestions here?? Preferably something well under the 170 buck price tag I see on the one that did clamp around the front sight.

For the trigger conversion and pistol grip i'm pretty much settled on the carolina shooters supply basic conversion with billet screwed on trigger guard. http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-714/Saiga-Rifle-Conversion-Kit/Detail

For mags I'm going to try and buy some Csspecs steel 20 round mags. The factory plastic mag feels ok but I never really have been a fan of plastic mags, and for 10 bucks more than the surefire mags I'm sure I can't go too wrong.

I really like http://www.themakogroup.com/category_s/55.htm the mako stocks I think I'll get a standard collapsible one to go on my AK and swap the shock absorbing one I have on it onto this .308. Its not really necessary to me to have shock absorbing stock on the 7.62x39 one I bought it for the cheek riser. These just seem so much better than the tapco ones but I do have one of them lying around I can play with until the other comes in (read I can afford it).

I have a rail that clamps onto the side mount thing on the receiver that seemed to hold good for a red dot and it does seem to fit the side of the receiver on this saiga quiet well also, so when I do get some type of scope I can use it.

I haven't decided to turn the front into a cheese grater yet, I'd mainly like to have a bottom rail but I don't care too much for the ones that screw into a plastic hand guard. If I do go with a rail it'll most likely just be a 3 rail, I don't really see much need for the top rail section. Maybe this http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-1046/CSS-Saiga-Rifle-Forearm/Detail

Whats everyone think, what would everyone do different?

 

[6x6pinz]

Starting at the muzzle end of the weapon I'd like to find some type of nice break or at least flash hider. I seen there were 2 kinds, either thread it and screw one on or a clamp on kind that went around the front sight. The issue I have is there is very little (maybe 1/16th inch) of muzzle prodruding past the front sight base. It would appear that the end portion of the barrel is turned down for the front sight base to fit on it. Either way its looking like a gunsmith might be required for this, unless there is some type of combo FSB and muzzle break all in one. Any suggestions here?? Preferably something well under the 170 buck price tag I see on the one that did clamp around the front sight.

There is lots of info on threading the barrel on the Saiga 12 forum also

This is exactly why I went the route I did. Everything I read said you had to remove the front sight then turn down the barrel, thread it, slide the front sight back and cut a new notch for the retaining pin. I chose instead to remove the front sight and attach a JP industries compensator to the front sight. I figured if I did something wrong I could just put a new front sight on and no permanent alteration to the rifle. I did have to make an alignment tool but that was not that big of a deal.

 

[jojo200517]

You know 6x6pinz what you created is pretty much exactly what I am looking for really. Kinda a shame someone isn't making and selling that. I'm kinda like you, i'd rather not have to thread the barrel itself and deal with all that. Looks like I should try and find someone that is good at welding.

I see you have the stock forearm and you added a bipod. I got a bipod laying around in the parts box somewhere too.

Humm I need to start figuring out this 922r thing too. Since the mags are USA made that should give me 3 parts, not sure how many parts I'd get out of the conversion kit, should be at least one for the grip, its not specific on the trigger parts, just says modified G2 FCG (i'd assume this is G2 tapco and would count) If so much as one of the parts in it counts along with the grip I think that puts me in the compliant category, but if not i'm thinking i'll need the forearm. The mako stocks are not 922r from what I have read.

Also I watched some vids on the conversion and I noticed on the trigger changeover they bored out 2 pins to remove the trigger. Thats not something I'm seeing in looking over this .308 saiga. Maybe it was just on that 12 gauge one but it looks like from a field strip and looking down inside the receiver that all the trigger parts are on the normal 2 axis pins like a standard AK pretty much would be. I guess that means less work for me here.

However the bottom plate is a different story, it appears to extend all the way up under the mag release. I really hope I don't have to play with the mag release and removing it. I'll try and get some pics up tomorrow.

 

[M1key]

Do the whole conversion. You will eventually. That muzzle brake looks just nasty and the folks on the firing line will hate you for sure.

If you must have one, how about this? http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-371/SGM-Tactical-Saiga-308/Detail

Good luck

M

 

[jojo200517]

the folks on the firing line will hate you for sure.

If you must have one, how about this? http://store.carolinashooterssupply....iga-308/Detail

Yeah I was kinda wondering how much side blast and boom one of those would create. I do like the simple way he attached it, even if it was a different style brake or a flash hider.

As for the one you linked, I read this over on saiga 12 forums

It will function on ONLY THE SAIGA .308 RIFLE with the current configuration of FSB and ~1/4-inch of barrel-stub-cap that extends forward of the FSB's forward-ridge

I don't have a 1/4inch i'm lucky if I have 1/16th reading some things on other forums lead me to believe that you needed at l inch of barrel past the front sight base. So without turning down the barrel and moving the sight back that one is out. If all that's getting done it'd be just as easy and probably cheaper to just thread it and screw one on.

 

[MD_Willington]

Cannot remember who did it, but one poster on the Saiga-12 forum put a M-60 hider on their S308, turned out pretty good.

 

[Cryogaijin]

Sounds like a fairly good plan. One thing I'll point out is that the .308 doesn't recoil too terribly strong (The action absorbs a good % of the energy) I'd worry about the recoil reducers after the first time it goes to the range.

I'd also get a good quick-release AK-style scope mount for it, and think about optics. I can do Minute of popcan accuracy with mine and a cheap 4x32 ncstar scope.

 

[jojo200517]

Yeah for right now I'm not gonna really worry about the muzzle brake or flash hider, maybe later on down the line. For now I'm going to focus on the conversion.

So just to review, all of my trigger parts are contained on the 2 axis pins and not on other pins that have to be bored out. Looking around the net this kinda varies as to how the factory trigger is set up from one model to the next. Also looking much closer in better light the bottom trigger guard and plate actually do not extend up under the mag release like I thought they did at first.

@Cryogaijin I figured it might soak up a decent amount of the recoil with the gas system but I already have the shock absorbing stock, picked it up pretty cheap at a local gun store. He was trying to get rid of stuff that he hadn't sold and was collecting dust. I picked it up strictly for the cheek riser so that my head could line up with the cheap red dot I had on my AK. I just figured I'd buy a standard adjustable one to go on that AK and move the shock absorbing one I have on it to the .308 since I already have it.

I'm not sure how good it is but the mount I have the red dot on feels pretty firm on the side rail on this receiver too so we'll have to see what it feels like when I get to the range. Already looked at a scope at wally world earlier Nikon 2-7x32 was $130. Definitely not set on it by any means, just something I seen that didn't look like it'd be completely under or oversized for the rifle. IMHO those HUGE scopes just look silly on a battle rifle (and most other rifles for that matter).

Anyway here is what it looks like now


And for the record no I can't look thru that red dot and put my face on the factory stock, I just put it on there for the pic to see what it would look like and make sure it would lock onto the rail good.

 

[6x6pinz]

I thought my S308 kicked way too much that is why I went with the JP compensator. the reduction in recoil was amazing. Yes the people in the lanes next to me are certainly not my friends after a few shots but hey that is their problem. I have a scope, laser and light on mine the laser and light are just for show. The scope makes the 308 round come to life at distance. I had to do the conversion after shooting just a couple rounds through mine. The trigger was just a joke. I assume only put there so it would make it into the country. I went with the Tapco G2, same as I have in all my AK's and am very happy with it.

 

[Cryogaijin]

Do the conversion.

My .308 was like night and day before and after the conversion. The dinzag trigger group I put in made a huge difference, and really started me wondering about the triggers on all my guns. It is easily the best trigger on any of my longarms.

 

[mac66]

Check out this thread.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=567005&highlight=saiga+308

1stmarine is the guru of Saiga 308s

 

[jojo200517]

OK so i'm gonna bump up this thread instead of making a new one as the conversion began this morning.

I ordered the trigger kit from carolina shooters supply along with some steel 20 rd csspecs mags. I pulled the tapco T6 stock off my AK to use for the time being and put the original wood back on the AK.

So I started by stripping to down and getting the trigger components out and stuff which went pretty easy after I got hold of the axis pin retaining spring wire (dear santa, smaller needle nose pliars please). Took the 2 screws out of the top of the stock and yanked and pulled for a good 5 minutes before i turned it over and seen the bottom one, upon removal it slid out fairly easy.

Then the fun part began, to drill out the 2 rivets holding on the factory stock trigger gaurd and lower plate piece. I decided that maybe since I had missed that stock screw that this was a good time to read over the instruction sheet included with the kit.

Thats when I noticed the line that said something to the affect of "the .308 saiga will also have 2 spot welds holding it on". I turned it up and looked and sure enough they were there (uttered some low road 4 letter words when I seen them).

I centerpunched the front rivet from intside gently and started trying to drill it out. (another note to self here, it's a real pain to drill atop a rounded surface in the center with a hand held power drill, a nice drill press would have made life easier)

I'll spare you the details of my off center drilling, careful dremeling, and tapping with the punch to get the pieces of rivet popped out but I eventually made it there. Safety glasses are a must, had half a dremel cut off wheel whack them while I was working and also broke the end of the punch that was really too small for what I was doing.
(dear santa also need more dremel cut off wheels, and new set of punches)

Now that I have the rivets out I have gotta ask how do I deal with the spot welds?? I'm thinking drill the bottom plate that is between the trigger gaurd and the receiver slowly until i can pop it off. Any other ideas?

 

[Ranger30-06]

Now that I have the rivets out I have gotta ask how do I deal with the spot welds?? I'm thinking drill the bottom plate that is between the trigger gaurd and the receiver slowly until i can pop it off. Any other ideas?

Well I used the cheater way and it worked just fine: I took a flathead screwdriver, wedged it between the receiver and the trigger plate, then whacked it with a hammer (the screwdriver that is.) Every couple hits I would readjust the screwdriver to make sure I was still hitting the welds. It will eventually just pop right off and then you just need to take a file to the weld spots to make it smooth!

Ps. DON'T TRY TO DRILL IT OUT! It is really easy to go to far and start drilling into the receiver before the plate even comes off.

 

[jojo200517]

Wow your method worked wonderfully. I was kinda scared of drilling to far or trying to drill thru a hard spot weld anyway. I was also kinda scared of the receiver giving instead of the bottom plate but the bottom plate was much thinner and softer.

I had considered using an air chisel before but when I use something like that at work to test a spot weld I generally don't have to worry as the part is going in the scrap bin afterwards anyway.

I'll file the spots down and mask off the rest of the receiver and hit it with some flat black spray paint next I suppose.

 

[Ranger30-06]

Wow your method worked wonderfully. I was kinda scared of drilling to far or trying to drill thru a hard spot weld anyway. I was also kinda scared of the receiver giving instead of the bottom plate but the bottom plate was much thinner and softer.

I had considered using an air chisel before but when I use something like that at work to test a spot weld I generally don't have to worry as the part is going in the scrap bin afterwards anyway.

I'll file the spots down and mask off the rest of the receiver and hit it with some flat black spray paint next I suppose.

Awesome! Glad to hear it! Another tip is if you have to drill some new holes, make sure to hit it with some oil so that you don't heat warp the receiver. Make sure you give us some pics of the completed project!

 

[JHenry]

i thought thats what everyone recomended the dremel for? IF i could save the money on that tool itd be great and that seems simple/effective.

On a side note, how come there arnt any 18 inch or 20 inch verisons of the 308 anywhere? I know there is supposedly a 21 +change inch verison somewhere out there but im havin a hard time finding any of them with online retailers

 

[mac66]

I just started my 16" 308 conversion over the weekend. This is the third Saiga conversion I've done the others being the 12 ga and x39 rifle.

I generally grind down the tops of the rivets flat with a dremel and then drill them off. I do the welds like ranger suggested.

My conversion will be simple. Basic G2 Tapco trigger group. Reuse the trigger guard, I just pop rivet them back on and then paint the rivets. Not noticeable. Ace non folder stock, Tapco FAL pistol grip. I will reuse the sheppards hook spring. No flash hider at this point and I will probably just modify the fore stock with some holes or cut is back a bit.

Gun is apart just waiting on the stock and trigger parts from Carolina shooter's supply.

 

[Ranger30-06]

i thought thats what everyone recomended the dremel for? IF i could save the money on that tool itd be great and that seems simple/effective.

The Dremel is for drilling out the rivets, not the welds. Drilling out the welds puts the receiver at risk for unwanted holes in it.

On a side note, how come there arnt any 18 inch or 20 inch verisons of the 308 anywhere? I know there is supposedly a 21 +change inch verison somewhere out there but im havin a hard time finding any of them with online retailers

No and no. There are only 16" and 21" versions available, but the 21" is hard to find. There is also the Ver21 model, which is a slightly different model that includes a thumbhole stock. I have no experience with the Ver21 model, but supposedly all you need to do is switch out the stock with a normal pistol grip and stock and your good to go.

 

[jojo200517]

I finally got it done for what I'm gonna do with it right now.

I couldn't wait on paint to dry I wanted to shoot it so bad I'll take it back down and paint it another day but for now here's what shes looking like....



Edit: now with 100% more picture

I'm still using the Tapco T6 buffer tube with the mako gl shock butt stock on the tube. With the US made csspecs mags i'm plenty good on 922r parts.

Since I didn't have time to get to the rifle range today I didn't get to actually test accuracy but rather fired just 5 shots directly down into the dirt. I was pleasantly surprised that it fed all 5 rounds of the roundish nosed soft point ammo just fine. I even found 4 of the pieces of brass lightly scratched and dented.

 

[Ranger30-06]

Very nice! Have fun making everyone at the range cringe each time you pull the trigger!

 

[jojo200517]

Aww shucks I didn't really notice the sound from the 5 shots I fired but that might have something to do with wearing radians custom molded ear plugs and a set of muffs over top of that. I try saving what hearing I have left, its already unbalanced (aka what, WHAT did you say I can't hear ya for all this other noise)

Or maybe they will cringe at the dented brass? lol

I know one thing I can't wait till I get a chance to take it out to the range and shoot the beast. Any good deals on .308 ammo out there that you guys know of? Since it's banging up the cases about like any other AK I'm not sure if they will be re-loadable, so i'm ok with it being berdan primed tho i'd prefer to keep away from corrosive unless it is dirt cheap.

 

[Ranger30-06]

Well I love the German surplus stuff that comes in the battle packs even though it's a little more expensive because there really isn't that much muzzle flash out of the 16" barrel but it does up the recoil a bit (it was intended for the G3 rifles.) The other stuff I use is Silver Bear. Its cheap, but cleaner than Brown Bear or Wolf. It will throw 2' of flame out of the barrel though...

 

[mshootnit]

I fire all of my saiga 308's under a tin roof at the range and wearing only foam plugs. I really don't notice any severe report. Is it just me? I mean we are only talking about 308 here. Maybe the guy behind the gun doesn't get as much sound coming back at him. I find my 308's pleasant to shoot, with very little recoil. It would but the cumulative effect somewhere between 22 lr and 416 rigby.

 

[Ranger30-06]

I fire all of my saiga 308's under a tin roof at the range and wearing only foam plugs. I really don't notice any severe report. Is it just me? I mean we are only talking about 308 here. Maybe the guy behind the gun doesn't get as much sound coming back at him. I find my 308's pleasant to shoot, with very little recoil. It would but the cumulative effect somewhere between 22 lr and 416 rigby.

Likewise, I shoot at the same type of range. To me, it doesn't seem that bad and the recoil isn't all that harsh, however everyone else on the range was flinching after every pull of the trigger and at least a dozen people have commented on how "it was one of the loudest guns they had ever heard." When I let my dad shoot it, I stood in a couple different locations in relation to him, and I found that when you were directly behind the gun, it wasn't to bad. Once you moved off about two feet off of either side of the gun, it seemed quite noticeably louder.

Recoilwise, the gun is extremely manageable. I have asked people if they want to shoot it and had them quickly decline saying that they don't think they could handle it. When I explain to them that its a 9lb rifle that is gas piston operated, they start to realize that its a lot more bark than bite. I would put the recoil on par with a .243 out of a light bolt action.

Disclaimer: I was shooting Russian ammo, which is extremely dirty and frequently throws AT LEAST 18"-24" of flame out the end of the barrel. German surplus ammo is a bit of a different story. It only puts 3"-5" of flame out of the barrel, but the recoil is more on par with a 7mm-08 out of a bolt action rifle. Not horrendously more, but enough that you notice a difference between the two ammo types.