New C&R questions

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Flyboy73

Flyboy73

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Just got my C&R and questions.

1. Do i need to enter in my Bound book my current C&R firearms i owned before getting my C&R?

2. If I purchuse a C&R firearm with out using my licence (like if i bought some from a auction i am going to), do i need to enter them in my bound book?


Thanks
Brion
 
Howdy Flyboy and welcome to 03 FFL land!

To answer your questions:

1) No - but when you 'dispose' of the C&R firearm you must log it OUT. On the 'IN' side I put 'acquired prior to C&R license'

2) Yes - Any C&R you acquire after you have your license must be entered into your book, even if you didn't use your license.
 
You sure about #2? I thought that only guns acquired by actually USING the license had to be logged.
 
Hmmm....I just had my C&R interview with the local agent today. If you buy it using your C&R lisence then you have to log it. BTW I asked when I was going to receive my license he said it still may take up to 6 weeks :cuss: I sent my app in back in July :confused:
 
I haven't done much buying at all since I got my C&R license, but everything I've read on the internet (and take that for the authority it is) says you have to enter any C&R bought, with license or not, in the bound book.

Iny any case, I'd rather not take the chance.
 
A good piece of advice I got from another forum "You won't get in trouble for having a firearm listed that doesn't need to be; you can get in trouble for not listing a firearm that should be."
 
I may be wrong, and I will check my book (if I can find it), but I was sure that you only logged guns acquired by using the license.
 
Car Knocker said:
TimH,

Why the interview? First I've heard of such a thing!
Click to expand...


I have heard of it before. Some places do it over the phone. The ATF guy drove over 2 hours to interview me. Its not really an interview but more of an explaination of the do's & don'ts of the C&R Lisence. Its probbably more of a New York State thing.

For me the worst part is I sent my application in back in mid July. I was interviewed today. The fella that did the interview told me it may be another 60 days before I get the license. Its getting depressing. He said he would try to expedite it but I'm not getting my hopes up.
 
Why would the ATF care what NY state wants? :confused:

When I got my C&R earlier this year, I didn't have any sort of interview or explanation from the ATF, other than the standard packet they send out.

So basically, the ATF has been sitting on your app pending the interview and now they'll start processing it. That's so wrong!

You'd think that the process would be the same on a national basis.
 
I think it has more to do with the local ATF agents. I've heard so many stories of people getting their licenses in 4-6 weeks. Its driving me nuts thinking that its already been 15 weeks. I called the ATF in Atlanta when I hit the 8 week mark. The lady told me it would probably be another 45 days. Well 7 weeks later and I'm being told it may be another 60 days. It just drives me nuts that its taking this long. My applicationis supposed to be sent back to Atlanta for final approval next week. I think at the end of next week I'm gonna start calling the Atlanta AFT office often. It may not help much but it'll make me feel better.
 
I may be wrong, and I will check my book (if I can find it), but I was sure that you only logged guns acquired by using the license.

I can't locate it right now but I read a FAQ from the BATF website that stated that only firearms acquired with a C&R had to be entered in your bound book. But I supppose that it would be the wise thing to do to enter any C&R eligible firearms in your records, given the recent revelations about IRS employees giving incorrect answers to questions on their hotline.
 
I sent my App. in about mid sep and got my licence back last week.

Brion
 
ACORN said:
I may be wrong, and I will check my book (if I can find it), but I was sure that you only logged guns acquired by using the license.
Click to expand...
Yep. Since the purpose of the license is to allow collectors to purchase eligible firearms across state lines I can't see what purpose there would be in logging anything you bought otherwise.
 
gwalchmai said:
Yep. Since the purpose of the license is to allow collectors to purchase eligible firearms across state lines I can't see what purpose there would be in logging anything you bought otherwise.
Click to expand...

That license also forgoes a NICS check (for C&R firearms) if you use it in your home state. You need to log any qualifying arms that you bring into your collection regardless of wether or not you "used" your license.
 
c_yeager said:
That license also forgoes a NICS check (for C&R firearms) if you use it in your home state. You need to log any qualifying arms that you bring into your collection regardless of wether or not you "used" your license.
Click to expand...
I disagree. Do you have a citation from the BATFE to support this?

<strike>BTW, in my state the C&R negates the need for NICS for ANY firearms purchase - not just C&R (because the C&R shows you've passed a more detailed background check than NICS). But that's beside the point.</strike>

edited to add: Sorry. That's not right. I was thinking of the CCW that negates the NICS check.
 
Last edited:
Cacique500 is right. You need to log all C&R firearms you aquire after being issued you C&R. Anyone can scour the regulations as easy as I can so I'l leave that to someome who does't agree.

(BTW, it takes 30 seconds to log it in your binder.)

Regards
John
 
178.125 [F]:

(f) Firearms receipt and disposition by licensed collectors. Each
licensed collector shall enter into a record each receipt and disposition
of firearms curios or relics. The record required by this paragraph shall
be maintained in bound form under the format prescribed below.
Click to expand...

It says *each* receipt and disposition...it does not specify how, therefore by default *each* means put them all in your bound book regardless of how you acquire them.

http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/part178.pdf - Relevant text is on page 67 of the .pdf file
 
Car Knocker said:
Why would the ATF care what NY state wants? :confused:

When I got my C&R earlier this year, I didn't have any sort of interview or explanation from the ATF, other than the standard packet they send out.

So basically, the ATF has been sitting on your app pending the interview and now they'll start processing it. That's so wrong!

You'd think that the process would be the same on a national basis.
Click to expand...

They care what NY State says because one of the terms of any FFL is that you must comply with all state and local laws.
 
Actually, there is a clear answer and Cacique500 just cited it but if anyone doesn't feel like taking the 30 seconds it takes to log your C&R purchases, by all means, don't. It only affects you.

Regards
John
 
Acorn - I read that thread and I think that guy is crazy...he's trying to redefine the word 'each'.

There is an ATF Opinion letter floating around (I can't find it but I have seen it) where they tell you to log the items regardless of how they were acquired.

As LynnMassGuy said, it only takes 30 seconds to enter the items into your bound book. If this is fuzzy area for you it would seem prudent to err on the side of caution rather than argue with the ATF agent about what the word 'each' means...that's a discussion you're not going to win...and for me it's not worth the hassle of potentially having my license revoked.

This is one of the problems with an 03 FFL - a lot of misinformation and grey areas being floated around. You need to read the actual item in question out of the CFR, do not rely on internet 'opinions'. I've seen people quoting ATF agents and the agents have been wrong in some cases. I called my local ATF branch with a question and it turns out that they had the wrong answer as well. (I later found what I was looking for in the CFR and it was clearly spelled out). The defense of "This guy on the internet said..." is not going to get you very far in an ATF 'interview'.

So bottom line, use common sense and if you have to take an extra step or two to cover your a$$ so be it. 03 FFL's are a great thing for collectors and you get a few privaledges that a regular Joe doesn't get...however, you have to play by their rules (all 500,000,000 of them!!)
 
Cacique500 said:
So bottom line, use common sense and if you have to take an extra step or two to cover your a$$ so be it. 03 FFL's are a great thing for collectors and you get a few privaledges that a regular Joe doesn't get...however, you have to play by their rules (all 500,000,000 of them!!)
Click to expand...
Not to be argumentative, C, but other than the priveledge to accept interstate shipments what does the C&R licensee get (from the government)?

As to the other question, by all means log everything if you like, but I think it's been shown that there is quite a lot of room for argument.
 
I'm not sure who posted it on that thread, but one guy said that he was at a ATF conference and this same question was asked. The answer from the agents was that you only log the items purchased with your C&R. I also saw an ATF FAQ that stated the same. Now I'm not a lawyer. I'm not an expert. All I'm doing is relating what I've read. No more no less.
 
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