NEW GUY on the block

[raricks345]

Hey everyone, I built a Lyman great plains rifle about 15 years ago and I have only shot Round ball and patch through it. It has a 1/60 twist does anyone know if I can shoot lead bullets though this? Elk Muzzle loader season is upon us and I want to make the cleanest kill possible. Also when you use a bullet instead of roundball do you still use a patch? Thanks Rob

 

[tscmmhk]

Rob,

In my experience, the 1-60 twist works best with the round ball and patch. If you shoot conical bullets thru that type of barrel they might not stabilize the bullet correctly. Finally most muzzle loader folks don't use a patch with a conical type bullet.

 

[slumlord44]

1 in 60 is a round barrel twist. That does not necessarily mean that it will not shoot conicals well. My CVA .50 Caliber Express Double rifle has a 1 in 48 twist which is supposed to work well with conicals. It does not shoot them well but is accurate with a round ball. I would try a few different varieties and see how they work.

 

[wildeboer]

You don't mention your caliber but mine is a .45 Deerhunter with a 1:66 twist and I shoot conicals from it quite accurately.
I use a .45 ACP bullet, follow the link and you will see : leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/rifle-bullet-molds/bullet-mold-double-cavity/
I'm using the mold for : 452-228-1R. I think I also used it in my 1858 New Army pistol and had a few left after selling the pistol. One day I tried a conicals out of curiosity and it grouped very good, its now for smaller to medium sized game on my side of the pond.

 

[swathdiver]

If you want to make the cleanest kill possible, what matters most is shot placement. IMO, stick with PRB in your PRB barrel. A PRB is plenty enough to harvest an elk with.

 

[rodwha]

Lee makes shorter REALs that may work.

If it's a .50 cal Hornady sells the PA conicals which are designed to work in a RB with slow twist barrel.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I've never taken an elk, but my personal choice would be a .54 with a patched round ball. I went for moose one year and used a conical in my .50 for that...so the Hornady PA Conical bullet might be just the ticket for you.

LD

 

[rodwha]

On a traditional ML forum there are a few who use a .50 PRB for elk, though they all seem to keep their shots within 50 yds.

When I chose a .50 cal for my first rifle I figured a ball was plenty for most anything I'd possibly hunt, and given an opportunity for something much larger, such as elk, a conical would do me well enough. Part of that was the shear variety and availability of components. However that's been nearly negated as I make a lot of my things these days...

 

[D. Buck Stopshere]

Typically, in any caliber, the lighter the projectile, the slower the twist and the heavier the projectile, the faster the twist.

Take a 1 pound rock and a 1/2 pound rock and throw each one. The lighter rock takes more effort to travel the same distance as the 1 pound rock. Once an object gets moving, it travels on its own mass.

Folks that have standard AR-15's shooting 55 to 60 grain bullets will usually have a barrel twist of 1:12". Competition shooters using Sierra 77 grain Matchking bullets to reach the 600 yard target frame, accurately, will have a barrel twist of 1:7".

The traditional T/C rifles came standard with a 1:48" twist, which was a compromise twist to use both round ball and Maxi-Ball/Maxi-Hunter conical balls.

T/C had drop-in barrels made by Green Mountain for round balls that were 1:66" twist. When the inline rifles were introduced, they, typically had barrel twist around 1:32" twist. Shorter barrels like the T/C Treehawk (camo W. M. C.) with 21" barrels had a 1:20" twist to stabilize conical bullets with and without sabots.

A Lyman Great Plains rifle in .50 or .54 caliber have been dropping elk since the seventies with a round ball. The late John Baird's magazine, The "Buckskin Report" would have a "photo page" in every issue, showing everything from whitetail deer to "buff". The only requirement for publication was the game animal had to be taken with a round ball. I can honestly say over the decades of his publication, hundreds of photos showed big game taken with that little projectile.

For anyone who wants to use a "compromise" projectile in a .50 or .54, Buffalo Bullet Company offered a "ball-et". Instead of a 180 grain round ball, the ball-et is 220 grains, but I can't speak for its accuracy. One must do his homework to find out. It's called testing out loads.

Accuracy is and always will be 99% mental concentration from "the nut behind the trigger".

 

[rodwha]

"...which was a compromise twist to use both round ball and Maxi-Ball/Maxi-Hunter conical balls."

Though it may shoot both fairly well it was certainly used in many original Hawkens rifles prior to the use of a Minie or other conical.

 

[raricks345]

Thank you all for the replies, I have a 54 cal, I chose to just go with the PRB and I am not disappointed. I went shooting before I went hunting and I put 3 balls 1 inch from each other at 75 yards open sights. Good enough for me. I had a shot at a cow elk last weekend, it was 20 below zero with wind chill, I took to long to make the decision to shoot and they got away. At the end of the day before jumping in the truck and driving home I fired it off just fine. Good to see I would have at least fired a shot in that nasty weather.

 

[Palehorseman]

So the old civil war rifled muskets with some at a 1:77 twist were totally inaccurate with those long slugs.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

That's a good point, but the minnie bullets fired from those rifles had hollow bases like this / \, while most conicals today are flat based. For example the repros of some of the Enflied 3-Band rifles today are often 1:66 or 1:72, but the shorter versions are most often 1:48. So the "skirt" on that bullet would expand and be forced into the grooves of the rifling to a much higher degree than the flat based conicals of today. The other factor is the type of rifling...I have a rifle with round-bottom grooves at 1:66 twist... simply won't shoot conicals as there is very little for the lead to grab onto, while square cut rifled grooves provide a much better "bite". Lastly, one should try several different types of conicals to be certain a specific rifle barrel is strictly "round ball only". I have a TC rifle that loves Maxi-hunters, and ONLY that concial, and also shoots round ball well. REAL brand conicals are different in behaviour than either of the TC concials, Buffalo Bullets, Hornady PA conicals, Ball-ets, and traditional minnie's all behave in specific ways, and simply must be tested.

LD