New Lee Sizer die scratching cases

[bmg12060]

New to reloading. You have all helped a lot already. couple of issues I'd like to get some advice on:
1.Purchased a lee loadmaster setup with dies for 45acp. Right out of the starting blocks my carbide sizer/decapper is scratching my brand new cases! very light scoring all the way around the case. Is this normal? Am I just being overly concerned or is this a problem?
2. Have a Lee factory crimp die that I can't seem to get adjusted. Followed instructions sent and also video and Faq's from Lee website. States that you adjustdie down to shellplate, insert loaded round and adjust crimper down until you feel it just touch case. No matter how many times I've tried I can't feel anything! Plus I've experimented with different setting and can't see any difference. I'm sure I'm missing something important!

 

[FieroCDSP]

scratches

1.Purchased a lee loadmaster setup with dies for 45acp. Right out of the starting blocks my carbide sizer/decapper is scratching my brand new cases! very light scoring all the way around the case. Is this normal? Am I just being overly concerned or is this a problem?

I'm figuring these are factory new brass we're talking about. Did you run any un-tumbled once-fired brass through there first? Sometimes the carbon and stuff will come off on the carbide ring and scratch things. You should only have to clean it with a rag to fix that. You can also disassemble it and visually inspect the ring to check for burrs. First though, I'd wipe it down clean, then send a lightly lubed case (using Lee case lube) through it, then wipe the excess off. I've head of carbide dies working odd until sending a lubed case through. That scoring (unless you can hang you fingernail up on it) should only be cosmetic and not really a problem.

2: The Lee FCD is a bit odd to get used to at first, but a handy item.
-1st:Make sure you've seated a bullet in the case to the proper depth. THe Lee FCD does not increase bullet seating depth if used correctly. DO NOT crimp with the bullet seating die. Meaning you should use the 3 turns back from the shell holder, but not further forward again.
-2nd:insert the FCD until it touched the empty shell-holder. Back off slightly to prevent contact in use.
-3rd: insert loaded round and run up fully into die. You might get a bit of contact as the carbide sizer does it's work. You'll get less is you used less neck flare.
-4th:Screw the taper screw down until you get firm contact with the case. Basicly until it stops. This might seem a long way down, but that's normal and depends upon bullet shape and length. You shouldn't twist hard after it stops. The only thing this screw touches is the outside of the case mouth. f you used very little flare, it might not feel like it's working, but there should definitely be a stopping point.
-5th: Lower the live round and give the knob another 1/4 to 1/2 turn, depending on what kind of crimp you want. 45's can run into bullet-setback on firing, so make sure your bullets are crimped tight enough not to move if you push them against a hard surface with quite a bit of force. Jacketed seem to taper crimp better than lead, in my experience.
-6th: raise round again and verify your crimp.

Once you figure it out, it's an indispensible tool. Hope this has helped, rather than just repeating what the Lee video covered.

 

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

On the scratching, did you clean your dies inside and out to removing any machining goodies before you used them the first time? Did you tumble or clean the brass to get off any dirt before sizing?

Also, brass gets marks on it when it's resized and generally looks different after it's been resized. It may look like scratches, but it may just be resizing marks. Can you post a pic?

As far as the adjustment of the FCD goes, I can add nothing to the excellent explanation FieroCDSP has already posted.

Regards,

Dave

 

[agd1953]

I have a similar problem with my rcbs dies for .45 and 9mm. If I adjust them the way they say to do a taper crimp the resulting OAL is longer than the test bullet I did. I just don't do the taper crimp thing and they come out great. The Instructions really suck. I think its the last part of the instructions that say to lower the seater rod till it touches the bullet that you used to determine OAL. Is that touches like a young maiden or like stomping on a roach. go figure By the way when reading the directions at first I noticed that the term seating dye and seating rod get kind of confusing, could that be the problem?

 

[benedict1]

New brass that has not been lubed will almost always show scratch marks from "galling" It needs to have some "dirt" from shooting or some lube if you want to avoid it. But don't worry because as soon as it is dirty it will size easily, with the exception of 9mm, which is the hardest stuff to resize because of the tapered case wall. I always lube 9mm just to make life a little easier. You can get by without it, but it is noticeably harder to resize if not lubed.

As to the FCD, you've been given good advice. I have never had a problem with it--you must use a loaded round of the right OAL to set it up properly. I use it for all pistol rounds--5 different calibers. Three of them for revolvers get roll crimps and two for semi-autos get taper crimps. The best feature of all is the post sizing--if you are loading cases with different length, which we all do unless we take the time to trim them(boring!), you may get an occasional bulge. The post-sizing takes that right out and your rounds will chamber perfectly.

 

[bmg12060]

Cardide size die is scratched

After reading the replies to my post, I took the die out and inspected it. There are two definate marks which corespond to the scratches I'm seeing on my cases. Plus the mouth of the die is leave a pretty severe mark at bottom of the case just above the head. This scratch is perpendicular to the case length. My fingernail catches on on. Cleaned the die and used a dremel tool w/ felt polish wheel to try and polish it. No Joy! I think I must have scratched it during my setup. I'm going to try major surgery with a more aggresive polish. If it doesn't work, I'll be out a few dollars and a lesson learned. Clean your dies and use lube on new cases.
Still running into problem with Factory crimp die. Followed instructions posted in reply and can't see a difference. If I use loaded round (HornaDY 200 gr FMJ CT at 1.260), run taper down till it stops, back round out, I don't have any more adjustment down. What am I missing? I think I'm just not feeling the taper screw when it first touches the case mouth. No matter how many times I try, I just don't feel anything until it's full down. Frustrating!
Help is appreciated.

 

[HiWayMan]

Don't out yourself from the money by monkeying with it. Just contact Lee for a replacement.

 

[FieroCDSP]

Two year unconditional warranty. Send the die-set back with a note why and get a replacement.

 

[benedict1]

And, call Lee and ask for Dave or Pat to help you with the Lee FCD. Something is out of whack for you. I have 7 sets of dies and have never experienced what you are talking about with any FCD. I just follow the instructions.

Have you looked at the video on the Lee website on how to adjust it??

http://www.leeprecision.com/html/HelpVideos/videos/Carbide Factory Crimp adjustment-1.wmv

Take a look at this.

 

[PsychoKnight]

There maybe nothing wrong with your FCD die or its depth settings.

Like you, I kept increasing its crimp depth to create a noticeable change to the cartridge, to no avail. Then I read somewhere that the FCD is not created to process each cartridge that goes through it. Instead, it functions as a final fail-safe to ensure that if any rounds are slightly "bent out of shape," they would be repressed to within specs to chamber. If most rounds are being reshaped by the FCD, then there is something wrong with the reloading production sequence in itself.
My understanding is that case deformity could occur if the case was significantly off-centered during resizing, improper case mouth belling (too much or too little), case stress when a bullet enters an under-belled mouth, bullets being placed crooked atop a case when being seated, or oversized bullets due to poor manufacturing tolerances. The FCD would help to correct such effects.
Here's a simple test I used to see if the FCD was doing its job: unload and remove the barrel of pistol, drop a loaded round into the chamber. If it drops in smoothly, that's the idea. Now, create a handload without resizing the case, and without the FCD in place (assuming you have a decapping die, otherwise remove the decapper from your resizing die, place case atop a bench vice opened enough to accomodate a dropping primer [or into a generic shell holder], and hammer out the spent primer using the decapping pin). If the custom, unsized round doesn't drop in smoothly, that would be expected. Once you run it through the FCD, it should now chamber properly.

The scratched resizing die - I too recommend not messing with it. Call customer support and I'm sure they'll take it back and send you a new one. They seem to be especially wanting to help people new to their product line, and who have just purchased their most expensive tool.

Good Luck.
PK

 

[Steve C]

If you run cases through a carbide die never using any lube you will likely see some light scratches. Often this is caused by debis buildup on the die, usually nickle that flakes off nickle plated cases. Since your dies are new I'd suggest you try running a case with some case lube through it and the light scratches will usually dissapear. You don't need to lube all the case, but one lubed case will usually be good enough for the next 5 to 10 or more. If you don't have case lube you could try some other light oil but be carefull and use very little. A drop of oil on a q-tip run around on the outside of the case or inside the sizing ring should be OK. Petroleum oil in contact with powder can neutralize it resulting a a squib or sub standard load.

The 3 .41 mag cases below show an unsized tumbled case on the left, a resized w/o lube in the center, and a resized case lubed with Imperial die wax. You can see some virticle marking on the center case that isn't seen on the right side lubed case.

 

[Zippy06]

bmg12060. The scratch thing, happened to me, a couple weeks ago. .40S&W.
I email Lee.
In the mean time. I took the die apart. Cleaned it with Tech. cleaner. To clean and degrease.
I didn't have any crocus cloth(real fine sand paper). Used regular paper. This was a little slow. I did have some 600 grit sandpaper. Used this very lightly. I had 6 pieces of brass shavings, stuck there. I got them out. Die good.
I got the email response. Dave's response was similar to what I did.
Dremel with polish wheel. Sounds good.
I was lubing 1 out of 10 rounds. I now lube 1 in 5.

 

[LotI]

I had a .223 die that did the same thing.

I ran it over to Lee (about 1 1/2 hours away) with one of the suspect cases and Dave took a look at it and said it wasn't polished correctly. He said that no amount of sanding would help since they're hardened. He put a new one in my palm with the case that he re-sized in the new die and sent me on my way.

Send it back with a case and they'll make it right.

 

[benedict1]

What the Inventor Says about the Lee Factory Crimp Die

Competitive shooters and hunters need ammunition that's dependable. The single operation in the reloading process that damages the most ammunition is the crimp operation. Attempting to crimp too much either buckles the case or forms a slight bulge just behind the crimp. Either way the round will not chamber.
The Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die overcomes these problems. It cannot bulge the case and it post sizes the case just in case a oversize bullet or thick case wall makes the cartridge over maximum cartridge size. It requires an extra operation. If you are loading on the Lee Load-Master or four hole Turret Press, it's no problem, because there is a station for the Factory Crimp Die. This die allows unlimited crimp with never a chance of a bulged case because it will be ironed out as it is extracted. The carbide sizer is slightly under minimum chamber dimension, so the rounds will fit any standard chamber but will not squeeze the bullet within the case. It's priced so low that it's unlikely anyone else will produce one like it.

Richard Lee, "Modern Reloading" 2nd. Ed. page 78

There has been a lot written in this forum, and in other forums, in the last month or so about the Factory Crimp Die--what it does and what it doesn't do. In the interest of clarity I thought it would be good to see what Mr. Lee says about it.

Also, as Dave told one of you who visited Lee--attempts to polish tungsten carbide with anything other than a diamond wheel won't do anything.(Of course, a steel die can be marked--polished, etc. But that could change its specs so you'd have to be careful)

If a die is leaving strange marks, just send it back because it isn't ground properly, whoever the manufacaturer might be. Wipe it off first, just in case some gunk is stuck to it, but chances are it should be replaced.