New M4, scope or red dot?

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SilentStalker

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Ok, so I got my new DD M4 v5 LW the other day and am trying to decide what to put on it. Currently, it just has the omega rail, complete flat top, magpul MOE stock, DD vertical foregrip, magpul trigger guard and a moe pistol grip. I am going to add a few things to it and switch some other stuff out. In any case, I wanted this to be more of a close range gun. I have plenty of longer range stuff already. So, I am down between getting a red dot and putting that on it, getting a low power scope of some sort that is relatively inexpensive, something in the 1-4 or max 3-9 power range. Or, I could do both, put a medium range scope on it and a red dot to the side. I mean I was thinking most red dots are 1-2 power anyways right, so what would be the purpose of having a lower power scope and a red dot? My problem is I really want a scope that can be illuminated if I so choose and I cannot find anything really in the lower power area that is illuminated. So, what would you do?
 
Shoot it with iron sights, first. I have Magpul flip up sights. Then, get a Holosight by Aimpoint or Eotech. They even make a 3x magnifier. The combination works close range out to 250 yards.

I have an Eotech 552 on my Saiga, an Eotech 512/3x on my Sig 522 and Eotech 556/3x on my AR15.

These work with both eyes open.
 
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Have you ever used a red dot before? When I got issued one, I had trouble, but it's mostly because my eyes don't work well together, I have lousy depth perception. To use a red dot, you have to look through it with one eye, and keep the other eye on the target and let them just kind of work together, and it doesn't work for me. It's for more of a reflexive style of shooting. Are you comfortable doing that, have you ever tried it?
 
Red dots (Aimpoint, EoTech, Reflex II) are very very fast at close range. The advantage they have over any scope is that eye position behind the optic isn't critical: if you can see the dot on the target, press the trigger and get a hit. Even if you can just see the edge of the dot.

If your needs don't include being able to get very fast shots on target at close range, you would be better served by a 1-4x variable scope.

BSW
 
get a good red dot like eotech or aim point and forget the magnifier. unless your going to get a 7x or more they're useless and just add more weight to the rifle. that rifle isn't going to get you quarter size groups at 100 yards anways.
 
If it's for close range (in the commonly accepted sense of the word), I'd say go with a red dot. Red dots are faster, if you're worried about that. I've been running a 1.5X ACOG on my carbine for a while now and like it a lot. That little bit of magnification helps out a lot.
 
Why would you say that rifle would not get me quarter size groups at that range? I didn't buy it for that purpose but I am curious as to why you would say that? I have known some people with scoped DD AR's getting dime size groups at 100 yds.
Click to expand...

No one can tell you what size groups you will be able to shoot with your specific rifle. Ignore them :)

Your DD should shoot fine.

Any chrome lined barrel that shoots into less than 1" at 100 yards, and operates with 100% reliability, is pretty good.
 
i have the exact same rifle and the best i usually get is 1.5 moa. thats with a 3-9 x40 scope and a bi pod
 
Quote:
I have known some people with scoped DD AR's getting dime size groups at 100 yds.

I'll bet that this isn't happening with any consistency.
Click to expand...

I dunno, with proper 3 round group selection (throw away the ones that are too big) I bet I could get 0.7" groups at 100 yards...

BSW
 
I highly recommend the Burris AR332 now. I've been using one on my 3 gun rifle since the beginning of the year and it's just about perfect. 3x allows shooting 6x9 steel plates out to 400 yards with no poroblem at all, it actually has holdover marks to 500 yards but I have not shot mine that far. It also has a black retical so even if the batteries die you are still shooting.

I have mine mounted on an 18" Rock River ATH upper.

RRAATHUPPER2.jpg

I also want to add, MANY people have AR's that will shoot consistant MOA groups at 100 yards. Just about anyone seriously shooting 3 gun will have one, as well as anyone shooting just about any other of the target sports. Now it may be true that very few milspec AR's will do that.
 
SilentStalker said:
Ok, so I got my new DD M4 v5 LW the other day and am trying to decide what to put on it. Currently, it just has the omega rail, complete flat top, magpul MOE stock, DD vertical foregrip, magpul trigger guard and a moe pistol grip. I am going to add a few things to it and switch some other stuff out. In any case, I wanted this to be more of a close range gun. I have plenty of longer range stuff already. So, I am down between getting a red dot and putting that on it, getting a low power scope of some sort that is relatively inexpensive, something in the 1-4 or max 3-9 power range. Or, I could do both, put a medium range scope on it and a red dot to the side. I mean I was thinking most red dots are 1-2 power anyways right, so what would be the purpose of having a lower power scope and a red dot? My problem is I really want a scope that can be illuminated if I so choose and I cannot find anything really in the lower power area that is illuminated. So, what would you do?
Click to expand...
I would go for a red dot. I've been using a Burris XTX-135 on an M4gery for about three years and it has been fine for me. It is not a target gun. Besides, OP has other long range options.
Red Dots are the quickest sights I have ever used and they are much lighter than any scope.
 
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I have a 1x4 scope that I think is just as fast as my red dot configured upper. The key is to get a scope that's a true 1X, or as close as possible. I think that some amount of familiarity/repetitions are needed before you really become fast with a 1-4 scope, certainly not a big deal though.

I have a 3-12x scope on another upper and I have a red dot mounted at the 2 o'clock position. It's ok 25 yards and in. The big problem is that the scope itself blocks a LOT of your peripheral vision, and to me that negates a big advantage of a red dot, or any sight that you use with both eyes open.

Still, if you think about 3-gun usage and may have to engage distant targets, and you want the advantage of a higher power scope - then the offset red dot is the way to go.

If you do not need that long range precision, then the 1-4X scope is the better option, without any secondary optic.

One last thing, in an ideal configuration, you have the red dot pretty much at the same "height" as your scope. You just rotate the rifle and have the red dot come into view without moving your head. I have not found that magic combination though. If the red dot is at the right height, then it sticks out too much, if it's too low, then I have to move my head to acquire the dot. This is not ideal for a fast transition.

Be prepared to test out a number of options, and that could add up some extra bucks pretty fast.
 
Well I am a recent convert to the red dot. All my rifles have scopes on them usually in the 6-24x50mm range. These are not small or light scopes, but usually I shot bench rest so the weight and length don't bother me.

Now comes a carbine length AR and I am on a hunt for the right scope. Tried a 3-9X40mm compact and was unhappy with the image of the 3-9x40. Then tried a 4-16X40mm but it is too long for the rifle and definately not something you want to use on a carry handle, so mount it on the rail, still not right.

To make a short story long, I went for a Walther PS55 red dot with a cross hair red dot reticle. Not really a centerfire red dot but does work well and keeps zero even after 200 rounds of 223/5.56. Well this weekend, sighted at 50 yards and dead center head shots on target. Then two days later at 100 yards, MOA of pop can with no problem and they are small targets (6 inch x 2 inch) at 100 yards, no problem sighting or hitting these targets.

Guess what's staying on the AR?? Usable with one eye open or two. Has a bullet drop reticle and runs on a single AAA battery.

I would suggest you try it, you will be supprised.
Jim

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/walther-ps-55-reflex-sight.aspx?a=764340
 
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