New Model Ruger Black Hawk

[Barmcd]

Can someone educate me on the New Model Ruger Black Hawk in 45 Colt? How do I tell the new model from the old? Is the new model capable of safely shooting the Ruger and TC loads in the Hornady book - at least at the lower end? While those loads are probably hotter than I would regularly shoot, I want to shoot something approaching 1000 FPS, but I am unable to get that out of my Uberti Cattleman. I've pushed past the upper load limits of those listed for 1873 clones in the Hornady book, and haven't been able to crack 800 FPS in my gun with a 5 1/2" barrel. I've found a New Model Black Hawk with a 7 1/2" barrel at a decent price and am contemplating the purchase, but I don't want to waste my money on it if I can't use it the way I'd like to.

thanks

 

[Mini30SS]

The "old model" Blackhawks were manufactured before 1973 and have the characteristic 4 clicks ( or is it 5?) when cocking the hammer. They also have " 3 screws" in the lower part of the frame, right above the trigger. These Old model Rugers were recalled for safety, to prevent accidental discharges when the hammer rested on the firing pin of a loaded chamber of the cylinder. These "Old models" that have not been retrofitted with the safety parts are highly sought after by collectors, and fetch collector prices

The New models just have one click when the hammer is cocked, and have 2 screws in the frame, above the trigger.

Both of these Rugers have sufficient strength to shoot "Warm loads" through. Strong enough for listed "Ruger" loads. That said, I would work my way up slowly, rather than going to the hottest loads listed for the TC.

1000 fps is easily doable in the Ruger .45 LC. You can safely use the starting loads for TC in the Lyman #51 Reloading handbook. Just remember that these loads are not safe for any Colt model 1873 guns, including modern replicas.

 

[RKRCPA]

Ruger only loads are meant for large frame revolvers only. Do not use higher pressure loads in the mid-frame Blackhawk or the New Vaquero.

 

[dh1633pm]

What about two pins and two clicks?

 

[Jeff62]

45 Colt is my close 2nd favorite round next to 45acp.
For my Rugers I handload 300gr wheel weight lead bullets and push them @1100fps. I developed and chronographed this load in August. It is likely a bit slower in hunting season.
Edited. I realized I didn’t chime an answer to your post. I have a 71/2 New Model like you are looking to potentially buy and a couple of “old” Vaqueros. I shoot heavy ish loads in all of them.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

At the top of this photo is an older Ruger Three Screw Flat Top 44 Magnum. Note the distinctive three screws in the frame. These were made before Ruger began installing transfer bars inside. No, Ruger never recalled the Three Screw Models, but they will install a transfer bar into the older models, which I DO NOT recommend. Learn to use it properly, only load it with five rounds and never lower the hammer on a live round.

At the bottom of the photo is a "New Model' Ruger Blackhawk chambered for 45 Colt. I also have an auxiliary cylinder for this revolver chambered for 45 ACP, but that is beside the point. Notice there are two pins in the frame, rather than the older Three Screws.

Lets look at the guts of the old Three Screw for a moment. There is no transfer bar anywhere, and although it uses coil springs instead of leaf type springs, the revolver works just like a Colt Single Action Army.

Here is a close up or the lockwork parts of the Three Screw. Notice the hammer has two separate cocking notches. The so called "safety cock" notch at the top, half cock in the middle, and full cock at the bottom. Again, never trust a revolver like this with a live round under the hammer, only load five, and lower the hammer on an empty chamber. And never trust the "Safety Cock" notch. Just like a Colt, If the hammer spur is struck forcefully enough the "Safety Cock" notch can break off, or the tip of the trigger can break off, allowing a round under the hammer to fire.

After some expensive lawsuits, that Ruger lost, filed by idiots who did not understand how to safely shoot a Three Screw, the New Models were made available sometime in the early 1970s, and Ruger stopped making the Three Screws.

Here is my New Model Blackhawk completely disassembled. The long thin part attached to the trigger is the transfer bar. The transfer bar is only in position to "transfer" the hammer blow to the frame mounted firing pin when the trigger is pulled. Otherwise, the transfer bar is lowered and the hammer cannot reach the firing pin. Modern Rugers like this are completely safe to carry fully loaded, with a live round under the hammer, because even if the hammer is struck, it cannot reach the frame mounted firing pin.

Here are the lockwork parts to my New Model Blackhawk. The only cocking notch on the hammer is the full cock notch, there is no "Safety Cock" notch and no half cock notch. To load or unload a New Model Ruger, the loading gate needs to be opened, which frees the cylinder to rotate for unloading and loading.

Here is why you cannot/must not push the velocity in your Uberti Cattleman. All three cylinders in this photo are chambered for 45 Colt. The three cylinders, left to right, are from an Uberti Cattlman (just like yours) a stainless Ruger "original model" Vaquero, and a 2nd Gen Colt. Notice how much thicker the chamber walls are at their thinnest sections on the Ruger cylinder than the other two. This Ruger Vaquero cylinder has the same dimensions as a New Model Blackhawk. I don't recall right now exactly how much metal is between the chambers, but you can see it is visibly more than with the other two cylinders. In addition, Ruger moved the bolt locking slots in their cylinders off center from the center of the chambers. The Uberti and Colt cylinders have the locking slots directly on center with the chambers. This means there is very little metal between the chambers and the locking slots, which makes that the weakest spot in the cylinders. Moving the locking slots off center means there is more metal between the chambers and the locking slots on a Ruger cylinder than either of the other two.

I do not have a copy of your Hornady book, but I have several other loading manuals. Specifically, my 13th edition of the Speer manual has a section just for 45 Colt for Ruger & Contender ONLY loads. The loads in that section are OK for a modern New Model 45 Colt Ruger. I am not going to give you specific load advice, that is what manuals are for. But you need to be aware that achieving 1000 fps is not the end of the story. Bullet weight has a huge affect on maximum velocity. One weight of bullet might easily do 1000 fps, but a heavier bullet might be a KABOOM waiting to happen.


Again study my first photo. The older Three Screw Rugers are easy to identify, and tell apart from a modern New Model Ruger.

 

[bigpower491]

Ruger only loads are meant for large frame revolvers only. Do not use higher pressure loads in the mid-frame Blackhawk or the New Vaquero.

I believe they call that mid frame the "flat top".
The 7.5 you speak of should be golden for whatever you want to load Ruger Only, but depending on how wild you wanna get, you might wanna get some bigger grips. 1000fps, if that's where you wanna be, should be right easily obtainable with lead or jacketed, at about what they refer to as tier 2 45 Colt loads. I also suggest if you have or know somebody that has access to gauge pins, you measure the chambers in your Ruger.
I run a 255 LSWC in my 5.5 Bisley in the neighborhood of 850fps, and it's plenty good for deer

 

[Barmcd]

The "old model" Blackhawks were manufactured before 1973 and have the characteristic 4 clicks ( or is it 5?) when cocking the hammer. They also have " 3 screws" in the lower part of the frame, right above the trigger. These Old model Rugers were recalled for safety, to prevent accidental discharges when the hammer rested on the firing pin of a loaded chamber of the cylinder. These "Old models" that have not been retrofitted with the safety parts are highly sought after by collectors, and fetch collector prices

The New models just have one click when the hammer is cocked, and have 2 screws in the frame, above the trigger.

Both of these Rugers have sufficient strength to shoot "Warm loads" through. Strong enough for listed "Ruger" loads. That said, I would work my way up slowly, rather than going to the hottest loads listed for the TC.

1000 fps is easily doable in the Ruger .45 LC. You can safely use the starting loads for TC in the Lyman #51 Reloading handbook. Just remember that these loads are not safe for any Colt model 1873 guns, including modern replicas.

Thanks for the explanation. I'm thinking I'm unlikely to find and old model Blackhawk at a price I want to pay. I have a Pietta 1873 clone that has a four click action, but in .357. I'm not a cowboy action shooter so that's not important to me. I just want a 45 colt revolver that will send a round down range above 750 FPS. Try as I might, I have not been able to get that out of my Uberti.

These are the loads from the Hornady manual for the 1873 Army and clones and the lower end of the Ruger only loads in the powder I have available. I've exceeded all these max loads and not reached 800 FPS with any of them. The closest I've gotten is with 11.5 gr of Accurate No. 5 which yields about 780 FPS. I've been using Berry's plated and Hornady XTP jacketed bullets in 250 gr. I don't think I'm actually pushing the envelope here because I haven't seen any pressure signs. In fact, none of the cases have required me to use the ejector rod to get them out of the cylinder and the primers have nice, round edges and hardly any flattening near the firing pin strike. It doesn't look like the cases are sealing very well in the cylinder because there is a lot of burn marks on the outside. Still, I'm reluctant to go any higher.

I'd like to be between the high end of the Cowboy loads and the low end of the Ruger only loads with a 250 grain plated or jacketed bullet.

Cowboy Loads
Powder	750 FPS	800	850
Titegroup	6.3
Bullseye	6.5
Unique	7.1	7.4
Win 231	7.3
Accurate No. 5	9.3	9.9	10.4
Ruger Only Loads
Powder	1150 FPS	1200	1250
Accurate No. 9	16.8	17.8	18.7
Alliant 2400	19.7	20.2	20.8

 

[Barmcd]

45 Colt is my close 2nd favorite round next to 45acp.
For my Rugers I handload 300gr wheel weight lead bullets and push them @1100fps. I developed and chronographed this load in August. It is likely a bit slower in hunting season.
Edited. I realized I didn’t chime an answer to your post. I have a 71/2 New Model like you are looking to potentially buy and a couple of “old” Vaqueros. I shoot heavy ish loads in all of them.

Thanks. I thought the Blackhawk was built sturdier than the 1873 clones. I've been told my Uberti is actually capable of firing heavier loads because the cylinder is slightly larger than the original 1873 Army or the other Italian clones, but I've been reluctant to push it too hard.

 

[Barmcd]

Howdy

At the top of this photo is an older Ruger Three Screw Flat Top 44 Magnum. Note the distinctive three screws in the frame. These were made before Ruger began installing transfer bars inside. No, Ruger never recalled the Three Screw Models, but they will install a transfer bar into the older models, which I DO NOT recommend. Learn to use it properly, only load it with five rounds and never lower the hammer on a live round.

At the bottom of the photo is a "New Model' Ruger Blackhawk chambered for 45 Colt. I also have an auxiliary cylinder for this revolver chambered for 45 ACP, but that is beside the point. Notice there are two pins in the frame, rather than the older Three Screws.

Lets look at the guts of the old Three Screw for a moment. There is no transfer bar anywhere, and although it uses coil springs instead of leaf type springs, the revolver works just like a Colt Single Action Army.

Here is a close up or the lockwork parts of the Three Screw. Notice the hammer has two separate cocking notches. The so called "safety cock" notch at the top, half cock in the middle, and full cock at the bottom. Again, never trust a revolver like this with a live round under the hammer, only load five, and lower the hammer on an empty chamber. And never trust the "Safety Cock" notch. Just like a Colt, If the hammer spur is struck forcefully enough the "Safety Cock" notch can break off, or the tip of the trigger can break off, allowing a round under the hammer to fire.

After some expensive lawsuits, that Ruger lost, filed by idiots who did not understand how to safely shoot a Three Screw, the New Models were made available sometime in the early 1970s, and Ruger stopped making the Three Screws.

Here is my New Model Blackhawk completely disassembled. The long thin part attached to the trigger is the transfer bar. The transfer bar is only in position to "transfer" the hammer blow to the frame mounted firing pin when the trigger is pulled. Otherwise, the transfer bar is lowered and the hammer cannot reach the firing pin. Modern Rugers like this are completely safe to carry fully loaded, with a live round under the hammer, because even if the hammer is struck, it cannot reach the frame mounted firing pin.

Here are the lockwork parts to my New Model Blackhawk. The only cocking notch on the hammer is the full cock notch, there is no "Safety Cock" notch and no half cock notch. To load or unload a New Model Ruger, the loading gate needs to be opened, which frees the cylinder to rotate for unloading and loading.

Here is why you cannot/must not push the velocity in your Uberti Cattleman. All three cylinders in this photo are chambered for 45 Colt. The three cylinders, left to right, are from an Uberti Cattlman (just like yours) a stainless Ruger "original model" Vaquero, and a 2nd Gen Colt. Notice how much thicker the chamber walls are at their thinnest sections on the Ruger cylinder than the other two. This Ruger Vaquero cylinder has the same dimensions as a New Model Blackhawk. I don't recall right now exactly how much metal is between the chambers, but you can see it is visibly more than with the other two cylinders. In addition, Ruger moved the bolt locking slots in their cylinders off center from the center of the chambers. The Uberti and Colt cylinders have the locking slots directly on center with the chambers. This means there is very little metal between the chambers and the locking slots, which makes that the weakest spot in the cylinders. Moving the locking slots off center means there is more metal between the chambers and the locking slots on a Ruger cylinder than either of the other two.

I do not have a copy of your Hornady book, but I have several other loading manuals. Specifically, my 13th edition of the Speer manual has a section just for 45 Colt for Ruger & Contender ONLY loads. The loads in that section are OK for a modern New Model 45 Colt Ruger. I am not going to give you specific load advice, that is what manuals are for. But you need to be aware that achieving 1000 fps is not the end of the story. Bullet weight has a huge affect on maximum velocity. One weight of bullet might easily do 1000 fps, but a heavier bullet might be a KABOOM waiting to happen.


Again study my first photo. The older Three Screw Rugers are easy to identify, and tell apart from a modern New Model Ruger.

Thank you for that detailed description. If I'm understanding you correctly, the Blackhawk should be capable of using the heavier Ruger only loads. I'm actually not aiming higher than the low end of the Ruger only load chart so I'm not going to be pushing the cartridge very hard.

 

[Barmcd]

I believe they call that mid frame the "flat top".
The 7.5 you speak of should be golden for whatever you want to load Ruger Only, but depending on how wild you wanna get, you might wanna get some bigger grips. 1000fps, if that's where you wanna be, should be right easily obtainable with lead or jacketed, at about what they refer to as tier 2 45 Colt loads. I also suggest if you have or know somebody that has access to gauge pins, you measure the chambers in your Ruger.
I run a 255 LSWC in my 5.5 Bisley in the neighborhood of 850fps, and it's plenty good for deer

Thanks. I wonder if my Uberti doesn't have a slightly oversize cylinder or bore. I've used Hornady 250 grain lead bullets which are .454" in diameter and they give me slightly better performance than the jacketed or plated bullets at .452".

 

[Barmcd]

After doing some research I've found that Ruger made a Redhawk in 45 Colt for a little while along with a Super Blackhawk Hunter. I'd like to find one of either at a reasonable price, but all I've found are prior sales and out of stock notices. That's why I'm focusing on a Blackhawk which should be readily available. I kinda actually like the look of the Bisley model and have seen a few of those for sale at a premium, but not crazy price.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Thank you for that detailed description. If I'm understanding you correctly, the Blackhawk should be capable of using the heavier Ruger only loads. I'm actually not aiming higher than the low end of the Ruger only load chart so I'm not going to be pushing the cartridge very hard.

Yes.

Any modern New Model (which means it has a transfer bar inside) Blackhawk built on the large frame, like mine, can take the Ruger Only loads.

Here are a couple more photos of my old Blackhawk, which I bought brand-spanky new back in 1975. Notice the two pins for the action, as opposed to the three screw heads on the old Three Screw Model. Also in this photo is the auxilliary 45ACP cylinder that came with it.

 

[bigpower491]

Thanks for the explanation. I'm thinking I'm unlikely to find and old model Blackhawk at a price I want to pay. I have a Pietta 1873 clone that has a four click action, but in .357. I'm not a cowboy action shooter so that's not important to me. I just want a 45 colt revolver that will send a round down range above 750 FPS. Try as I might, I have not been able to get that out of my Uberti.

These are the loads from the Hornady manual for the 1873 Army and clones and the lower end of the Ruger only loads in the powder I have available. I've exceeded all these max loads and not reached 800 FPS with any of them. The closest I've gotten is with 11.5 gr of Accurate No. 5 which yields about 780 FPS. I've been using Berry's plated and Hornady XTP jacketed bullets in 250 gr. I don't think I'm actually pushing the envelope here because I haven't seen any pressure signs. In fact, none of the cases have required me to use the ejector rod to get them out of the cylinder and the primers have nice, round edges and hardly any flattening near the firing pin strike. It doesn't look like the cases are sealing very well in the cylinder because there is a lot of burn marks on the outside. Still, I'm reluctant to go any higher.

I'd like to be between the high end of the Cowboy loads and the low end of the Ruger only loads with a 250 grain plated or jacketed bullet.

Cowboy Loads
Powder	750 FPS	800	850
Titegroup	6.3
Bullseye	6.5
Unique	7.1	7.4
Win 231	7.3
Accurate No. 5	9.3	9.9	10.4
Ruger Only Loads
Powder	1150 FPS	1200	1250
Accurate No. 9	16.8	17.8	18.7
Alliant 2400	19.7	20.2	20.8

It could very well be the gun. Chamber size, barrel size. I'd have to go back to my data, but I burn lots of #5, and have burned a bunch in the Bisley and 11.4gr of 5 pushed that same 255 swc over 900 IIRC.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Thanks. I wonder if my Uberti doesn't have a slightly oversize cylinder or bore. I've used Hornady 250 grain lead bullets which are .454" in diameter and they give me slightly better performance than the jacketed or plated bullets at .452".

45 Colt brass is quite thick at the case mouth. That means that the case does not always expand all the way to fill the chamber. The result is often sooty looking cases.

 

[bigpower491]

After doing some research I've found that Ruger made a Redhawk in 45 Colt for a little while along with a Super Blackhawk Hunter. I'd like to find one of either at a reasonable price, but all I've found are prior sales and out of stock notices. That's why I'm focusing on a Blackhawk which should be readily available. I kinda actually like the look of the Bisley model and have seen a few of those for sale at a premium, but not crazy price.

Forget reasonable for either of those, premiums the word. One is or just sold(BH Hunter) on the GB for $1950...someone wanted it that bad. Redhawks right around 1200 to, well.
I've got a nice Bisley, and they can be found for a fair price.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

So you probably don't want to hear that I paid $125 for my convertible Blackhawk back in 1975. The inflation calculator says that would be $707.95 today.

 

[bigpower491]

So you probably don't want to hear that I paid $125 for my convertible Blackhawk back in 1975. The inflation calculator says that would be $707.95 today.

And I don't care what anyone says, one got a much better made gun for that money than they put out these days.

 

[Bazoo]

Driftwood Johnson, wow and thank you for your great contribution!

 

[Barmcd]

This is one I'm interested in.

 

[35 Whelen]

Can someone educate me on the New Model Ruger Black Hawk in 45 Colt? How do I tell the new model from the old? Is the new model capable of safely shooting the Ruger and TC loads in the Hornady book - at least at the lower end? While those loads are probably hotter than I would regularly shoot, I want to shoot something approaching 1000 FPS, but I am unable to get that out of my Uberti Cattleman. I've pushed past the upper load limits of those listed for 1873 clones in the Hornady book, and haven't been able to crack 800 FPS in my gun with a 5 1/2" barrel. I've found a New Model Black Hawk with a 7 1/2" barrel at a decent price and am contemplating the purchase, but I don't want to waste my money on it if I can't use it the way I'd like to.

thanks

You don't need one of the gargantuan Ruger large frame Blackhawk 45 Colt's to get 1000 fps from a 250 gr. bullet from the cartridge. Funny, just this evening I loaded some 252 gr. cast SWC's over 10.4 gr. of Alliant BE-86 and the load averaged 1006 fps, and it was quite accurate too at 100 yds. out of my Flat Top Blackhawk, but this is a 23K psi load. Won't work in the Pietta, but is fine in a Uberti or any Ruger.


That said, Alliant has two different loads that propel a 250 gr. lead SWC over 1000 fps while staying within the 14K psi SAAMI parameters-



35W

 

[Tallball]

The New Model Blackhawk you mentioned should be fine for those loads. There's no real need to pay for a fancier model. Mine is just the standard version, and I've been very pleased with it. The fit and finish are nice. Good trigger and sights. Way more accurate than I am. Been shooting it for over ten years, and it still looks and shoots like it's barely broken in.

Ruger Blackhawk 45 Convertible

• Tallball
• Apr 20, 2020

 

[NeroM]

Can someone educate me on the New Model Ruger Black Hawk in 45 Colt? How do I tell the new model from the old? Is the new model capable of safely shooting the Ruger and TC loads in the Hornady book - at least at the lower end? While those loads are probably hotter than I would regularly shoot, I want to shoot something approaching 1000 FPS, but I am unable to get that out of my Uberti Cattleman. I've pushed past the upper load limits of those listed for 1873 clones in the Hornady book, and haven't been able to crack 800 FPS in my gun with a 5 1/2" barrel. I've found a New Model Black Hawk with a 7 1/2" barrel at a decent price and am contemplating the purchase, but I don't want to waste my money on it if I can't use it the way I'd like to.

thanks

A couple thoughts......
Uberti usually have pressure CPI proof marks. CPI pressure limit for 45 Colt is 15K psi [SAAMI is 14K psi].
New Model Blackhawk convertible models have a 45 ACP cylinder. SAAMI pressure for 45 ACP is 21K..
Seems like you could tread into stretching 45 Colt loads slightly toward tier II limits. I do so with my NM Blackhawks, HOWEVER keeping the pressures at or below 19K psi.
I've built on some published [<14K} loads - Two good examples are Alliant's Herco load of 9.5 gr w with 250 gr LSWC, they claim 1021 FPS. I get a little under that in both a 4 5/8 RBH and 6" S&W M25. Have used a 9.5 gr Herco load with 255 gr SWC for probably 50 years, it works well. I have also stretched the loading to 10 gr, not responsible for that data. Since pandemic, I've had a difficult time getting Herco - so have been trying other powders. From Hodgdon's web data, 9.2 gr CFE-P with 250 gr LRNFP yields 1014 fps, they claim 13K PSI. With 255 gr SWC, from RBH and M25 - with 9.2 gr CFE-P, I measure slightly below 1000 fps. I've also stretched this powder to 9.7 gr - on your own there.
Plus there I've modeled some Hodgdon LongShot loads starting at 9.5 gr extracted from issue # 246 Handloader article, however use the CPC 265 gr WFN bullet. I get around 950 FPS with this - similar to Grizzly cartridge factory loading.
A new RBH would be great, loads in the 14000 to 19000 psi area add huge versatility and effectiveness to 45 Colt. Wish Alliant and Hodgdon would actually list a couple in their load data, just for a 250/255 gr LSWC bullet. The tier III loads Hodgdon lists are very nice, but for me - are too much, I have other guns for this power level.

 

[Barmcd]

You don't need one of the gargantuan Ruger large frame Blackhawk 45 Colt's to get 1000 fps from a 250 gr. bullet from the cartridge. Funny, just this evening I loaded some 252 gr. cast SWC's over 10.4 gr. of Alliant BE-86 and the load averaged 1006 fps, and it was quite accurate too at 100 yds. out of my Flat Top Blackhawk, but this is a 23K psi load. Won't work in the Pietta, but is fine in a Uberti or any Ruger.


That said, Alliant has two different loads that propel a 250 gr. lead SWC over 1000 fps while staying within the 14K psi SAAMI parameters-

View attachment 1202578

35W

Here's the problem, I've used 7.1 gr of Bullseye and my average velocity for six shots was 739 out of my 5.5" barrel. That chart shows 879 fps. All my loads perform significantly below published data in this gun. Its the only gun I have that performs so poorly. I haven't used 9.5 gr of Unique, but the average velocity of 8.1 gr of Unique yields a six shot average velocity of 746.

 

[35 Whelen]

Here's the problem, I've used 7.1 gr of Bullseye and my average velocity for six shots was 739 out of my 5.5" barrel. That chart shows 879 fps. All my loads perform significantly below published data in this gun. Its the only gun I have that performs so poorly. I haven't used 9.5 gr of Unique, but the average velocity of 8.1 gr of Unique yields a six shot average velocity of 746.

Wow...how big is your BC gap?

35W