New Pietta 1858, is it a problem?

[Rudedog]

Well, I have the same model Pietta as you that I bought from DGW 3 years ago. I have shot it with both cap and ball and 45 LC in a Howell conversion cylinder. Both hit dead on windage wise at 25 and 50 yards from the bench and offhand.
Looking at my front sight from the shooting perceptive, my front sight appears slated to the left. That's how they regulate it from the factory. Looking at my revolver's bore as you photographed yours and if I keep staring at it... it looks like yours... well maybe.
I never did really see anything off with mine, until I saw your picture. My Pietta shoots great and its a keeper. Try yours at different distances.

 

[wmgeorge]

Why would he keep defective merchandise? It knocks down the value of the gun when selling or trading. If you purchased a brand new car and it came in with a big scratch on one of the doors would you take it anyway? It still drives ok.

 

[Slamfire]

Hello everybody,

I am new to black powder shooting, however been reading this forum for a while and got quite a bit of valuable information in that regard.

Anyhow, just got my first Pietta Remi 1958. I’ve been kind of skeptical of the quality control of these revolvers, but finally decided and went to Cabela’s. I ask a salesperson about their return/exchange policy in case of defect, he replied: Muzzleloading guns sales are final! Well, it is not what I expected to hear but took a chance..

Overall the fit and finish on the revolver is pretty good, few minor marks here and there, not a big deal. Mechanically everything precisely aligned and function perfectly, timing is good, action feels smooth and locks solid, front sight is strait.

But one thing bothers me: muzzle appears to be off center in the barrel. But after close examination looks like too much metal was removed from three flats of the octagon barrel on the right side, I guess is a result of aggressive/sloppy polishing of the barrel before bluing, I don’t know. But I’m concern about accuracy.

Any opinions or suggestions on this issue?


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I have one 1858 Pietta where the front sight is almost at 1 OC. I have never fired the thing because not hitting what I am aiming at is a purposeless endeavor. I tried tightening the barrel, to get the sight to align with the frame, and all I ended up doing was rounding the barrel flats. The front sight is in the dovetail so tight that it won't move. I have beat the dovetail to the point it is deformed. I cannot adjust the front sight in any attempt to compensate for the sight offset. I purchased a 1858 Uberti with only a tiny bit of front sight offset and was able to zero the thing.

I am very disappointed with black powder pistols in general, I have handled so many where the sights are canted that I believe that industry does not have a cant criteria. It is apparent to me that the makers don' expect their customers to hit anything they are aiming at. And that includes a Colt blackpowder pistol. The finish was eye popping, but even after fitting a taller front sight to the third model Dragoon, it shoots about two feet off to the side at 25 yards.

 

[Catman42]

if a bore is off center on a rifle and your shooting several shots, the heating up of the barrel will bend it toward the thinner side. accuracy goes very bad. on a revolver the barrel is a lot shorter so may or not be a problem when the barrel heats up. if it isnt on center get it replaced. you want a gun made right so you dont have to cuss it of fuss with it if your shooting it alot. a off center bore with cause the barrel to bend slightly when heated up.

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

Cabelas used to take them back if there was a problem. A lot of their policies have changed since the Bass Pro buyout.

 

[Blackpowdershooter44]

Cabelas used to take them back if there was a problem. A lot of their policies have changed since the Bass Pro buyout.

I've returned them to Cabelas a few years back, like you said the Bass pro buyout could've changed that.

 

[vkm92]

Gentlemen,

Today I went to Cabela’s with micrometer, magnifying lens, flash light, bunch of cleaning towels and ready to fight , but to my deepest surprise I’ve received the most courteous service I could ever imagine or experienced. They apologized for the inconvenience and called black powder firearms instructor who agreed that my revolver was defective and assisted me farther through entire process of exchange with a lots of helpful information. They had three revolvers in stock and let me choose one I liked the best. Let me tell you, all three had some factory flaws which makes me believe that Cabela’s gets the lowest grade (B-C) of these Piettas, and it reflects the lowest price.

I chose one with the best barrel and smoothest actions and timing, but with worst finish and more scratches that my old one. The other two Remis had off center muzzles and gritty actions but overall better finish. At this point I don’t care about finish, I can always touch it up...

The thing I’m concern about, when the hammer is fully cocked the nipple looks slightly to the right in the hammer slot. What is the best way to check cylinder to barrel alignment?

And the second thing is the hammer outline/marking on the left side of the frame inside the slot, I don’t know if you can see it on the picture, but I understand that this area serves as hammer stop. If it so, then it's normal?

 

[wmgeorge]

Looks like it was machined slightly off. At full cock does the cylinder line up with the bore? A light down the bore or a tight dowel or the like should slide right down the barrel into that chamber and are they all the same?

 

[LaneP]

Glad to hear they worked with you to resolve the issue. But that's usually what happens when you go in prepared for battle, isn't it

I just looked at my fairly recent model Uberti NMA and the nipple is also biased just a touch to the right at the cocked position, I would say very close to what yours shows. Lacking a dowel or pin gauge that is bore diameter to check for interference at the cylinder/bbl juncture, I would probably try removing a cone and use a light from the back to see if the bbl/cylinder alignment looks concentric.

 

[vkm92]

Looks like it was machined slightly off. At full cock does the cylinder line up with the bore? A light down the bore or a tight dowel or the like should slide right down the barrel into that chamber and are they all the same?

When at full cock, the loading lever with plunger drops in the cylinder lowest chamber without binding. That's what I've checked so far. I will do what you've suggested, thank you!

 

[woodnbow]

Glad to hear they worked with you to resolve the issue. But that's usually what happens when you go in prepared for battle, isn't it

I just looked at my fairly recent model Uberti NMA and the nipple is also biased just a touch to the right at the cocked position, I would say very close to what yours shows. Lacking a dowel or pin gauge that is bore diameter to check for interference at the cylinder/bbl juncture, I would probably try removing a cone and use a light from the back to see if the bbl/cylinder alignment looks concentric.

I’m with Lane, shine a light into the cone or remove the cone and look for a misalignment. At this point I would check every chamber. Or, (Insert shameless plug) you could just buy my Shooters Model and everything would be perfect right from the start... ;-)

seriously, I’m glad they worked with you on this. If I worked at Cabelas, I’d be communicating with the factory or distribution about these issues. That’s just shoddy stuff that should never leave the factory.

BTW, I like the way they did the rear sight groove. Should offer a sharp picture. And there’s enough meat on either side if it needs to be shaded one way or another.

 

[vkm92]

By shining a fine light in to the muzzle I can see that the cylinder chambers and the barrel do not line up, but gentle touch on the side of the cylinder at full cock, put them in to perfect alignment. Farther examination revealed that the pin wobble to much in the frame and inside the cylinder, so hopefully it out off specs, and a new one cures the problem.

Let me tell you people: I have Colts, Rugers, Smith & Wesson revolvers and they were all perfect out of the box. I'm not getting frustrated, because I was kind of prepared to deal with issues, but this is my first and last purchase from Pietta!

 

[vkm92]

Puled the pin out, looks normal and consistent alone entire length. How tight it should be in the frame? Is there are other ways to align cylinder with the barrel, or just forget it and shoot the thing?

 

[woodnbow]

By shining a fine light in to the muzzle I can see that the cylinder chambers and the barrel do not line up, but gentle touch on the side of the cylinder at full cock, put them in to perfect alignment. Farther examination revealed that the pin wobble to much in the frame and inside the cylinder, so hopefully it out off specs, and a new one cures the problem.

Let me tell you people: I have Colts, Rugers, Smith & Wesson revolvers and they were all perfect out of the box. I'm not getting frustrated, because I was kind of prepared to deal with issues, but this is my first and last purchase from Pietta!

Ouch! You may have shot your wad with Cabelas but I would contact Pietta and ask for a some help with that gun. They’re not expensive but still they should be properly timed at least.

 

[woodnbow]

Puled the pin out, looks normal and consistent alone entire length. How tight it should be in the frame? Is there are other ways to align cylinder with the barrel, or just forget it and shoot the thing?

It should be snug in the frame and there shouldn’t be any significant wobble from side to side or front to back.

 

[vkm92]

It should be snug in the frame and there shouldn’t be any significant wobble from side to side or front to back

It looks like cylinder wobbles more on the pin in a vertical plane and that causes misalignment.

 

[woodnbow]

You should probably get in touch with Pietta. Sounds like a return is in order...

 

[arcticap]

Since the chambers are slightly under sized compared to the bore and forcing cone diameter to begin with, then perhaps it may appear that the chambers don't line up perfectly because they are slightly smaller in diameter.
But in essence they could be fine.
I wouldn't worry about a .001" + when the reproduction guns are still built to better spec.'s than the originals.
It's about having fun, and mostly at fairly close range.
Unless you want to trade up for a model with target sights, it shouldn't make for much of a difference in accuracy at all.
The gun can still be loaded with .451 balls or .454 balls or .457 balls.
And they will all still be swaged to the same chamber diameter when they're rammed which is under bore size unless they're bumped up in size when fired.
There's rarely a gun made at any price that doesn't have some kind of defect whether known or unknown.
If you bought a gun with perfect chamber alignment and timing, and the oversized bolt starts to peen the cylinder notches, then the same thing can happen once the gun breaks in.
If your cylinder bolt doesn't peen the notches then you may still be ahead in the wear and tear department in the long run.
I think that the important thing is that your bore is straight and not off center.

And to keep the cylinder from getting ringed by the bolt, they say to always bring the hammer to full cock from 1/2 cock before gently thumbing it down, and not to ever thumb it down from the 1/2 cock position.

Lastly, those Howell 6 shot conversion cylinders have chambers that are designed to be offset by at least 1 0r 2 degrees in order to fit 6 rounds into the cylinder.
The only cylinders that are chambered straight and true are the 5 shot conversion cylinders. Yet no one complains about the accuracy of the 6 shot conversion cylinders.
A 1 or 2 degree offset doesn't create any noticeable functional difference.

However if you think that your tolerances are off by too much then you already know what to do.

 

[LaneP]

I have to go along with @arcticap. At the price point they're getting guns to market, they are designed to be fit together with the least amount of manual assistance in order to hold down production costs, so this will mean no matter how many guns someone looks at they are probably going to find something about each one that is a little off. And we're not just talking Pietta, but many gun makers, including many modern smokeless cartridge handguns.

As long as a revolver is not so far out of bbl/cyl alignment that it's shaving lead, it will be safe to shoot and accuracy will likely be satisfactory if not excellent with a good bullet/charge combination.

 

[wmgeorge]

I have purchased and owned a lot of BP revolvers over the last 30 years and would never accept shoddy workmanship. Plus my modern made in USA or Taurus made revolvers were perfect or they went back.

 

[vkm92]

The cylinder pin diameter is .272” and the channel for it in the frame way too large, badly out of cpecs.
The cylinder pin hole measures .276,5” at the front and .274” at the rear. Inside it looks like drills of two different sizes were used, very crud looking.
Here we have it, of course it’s gonna wobble. Imagine what could've happen after let say 50 shoots.

Anyways, back to Cabela’s this morning thinking of getting a refund. Thanks God I have a strong mechanical background, so I was able technically to explain and demonstrate the existing defect. They agreed and ask me if I’d like to look at one more which they had on layaway for someone who never picked it up. I debated for a few minutes; at that point my exchange-refund privileges will be exhausted.

Finally Gentlemen, my persistence got paid off, I had a winner. Almost perfect fit and finish, barrel, timing, lock- up, cylinder alignment; - it had it all. I think it deserves a red carpet to pose for the picture



Most importantly, I'd like to thank you all for the support you've provided on this issue. I don't think I'd be able to get there without you!
Also I think this thread is an excellent example and a guide for newcomers who are getting their first black powder firearm.

 

[expat_alaska]

vkm92,

It appears that your perseverance paid off. The wood has very nice figure; it looks to be hardwood (not uncommon with Italian replicas) rather than walnut, but still very good.

You done good, fella!

Regards,

Jim

 

[arcticap]

I'm glad that you stuck to your guns and that your local Cabela's treated you right.
Imagine all of the folks who don't ever get the opportunity to inspect their new gun in person before buying.

Not all Pietta models are as difficult to purchase, even from Cabela's.
Because the basic Remingtons are the most popular, they seem to have the most defects.
Cabela's has sold many top notch guns in the past, including specialty models.
It's too bad that the quality of the base model Remington can be so spotty.
I imagine that those leftover guns that you rejected will be sold to unsuspecting customers to become holiday gifts.
The Pietta factory workers must know which guns to place in the Cabela's boxes.
Perhaps Cabela's receives a special discount for buying so many defective guns.
It's difficult to imagine otherwise.

 

[Rex B]

I’ve had a Cabelas 1858 Rem and a 1860 Colt, bothe Piettas. NIB, never fired. Now I’m afraid to go out and check them!

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

Gentlemen,

Today I went to Cabela’s with micrometer, magnifying lens, flash light, bunch of cleaning towels and ready to fight , but to my deepest surprise I’ve received the most courteous service I could ever imagine or experienced. They apologized for the inconvenience and called black powder firearms instructor who agreed that my revolver was defective and assisted me farther through entire process of exchange with a lots of helpful information. They had three revolvers in stock and let me choose one I liked the best. Let me tell you, all three had some factory flaws which makes me believe that Cabela’s gets the lowest grade (B-C) of these Piettas, and it reflects the lowest price.

I chose one with the best barrel and smoothest actions and timing, but with worst finish and more scratches that my old one. The other two Remis had off center muzzles and gritty actions but overall better finish. At this point I don’t care about finish, I can always touch it up...

The thing I’m concern about, when the hammer is fully cocked the nipple looks slightly to the right in the hammer slot. What is the best way to check cylinder to barrel alignment?

And the second thing is the hammer outline/marking on the left side of the frame inside the slot, I don’t know if you can see it on the picture, but I understand that this area serves as hammer stop. If it so, then it's normal?

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Take the nipples out and shine a light and see how the cylinder and barrel alignment is at full cock.