new rifle questions

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patriot9879

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First, let me say hello. I have enjoyed the discussions and comments I have seen in the couple of days since I came across this forum.

Secondly...I am in the process of purchasing a new bolt rifle. I had narrowed my choice down to a Remington or a Savage in 300 WSM, 30-06, or 300 Win Mag. I have no particular affinity for any particulr brand; those two just seemed to fit me the best. Today I came across a pretty good deal (I think) on a Weatherby Vanguard...440.00 for a stainless/composite in 30-06. It seems to point well for me, and it feels secure and comfortable as I hold it. About the only thing I know about this particular Weatherby is that it is manufactured by Howa in Japan, and that it has been marketed at other times by a few other domestic manufacturers such as S&W. I would imagine that Howa also sells the rifle under their name, but I have never seen a Howa rifle, so I am not sure. It seems like a well made gun, and the fit and finish of the two models I saw today were pretty good...much better than the savage and probably a little better than the Remington (keep in mind that I am only comparing composite stocked versions here). So, I guess I am looking for general comments on the Vanguard...pros/cons...that sorta stuff.

Lastly...I am also looking for some impressions from those that have shot any of the cartridges that I mentioned above. I know that balistically, they are all fairly close. I am mainly looking for impressions on the recoil...especially with a composite stock...maybe a highest to lowest felt recoil ranking would be good.

Thanks in advance for help. Ya'll take care.

--Steve
 
If this is your first rifle i would recommend a .308. If not, then the Magnums will be ok. I wouldnt go with the vanguard personally, due to cost of getting it worked on or upgraded. Savage or Remington are handled by all gunsmiths. I have shot the .300 and the .300WSM, and the WSM does have just a little less kick, but it can't handle the larger grain bullets like the .300WM. When shooting the .300WM, i prefer the 190-220 grain bullets, seems to shoot best. The .300WSM likes 175's. I would go with Savage or Remington to answer your question.
 
Howa rifles, and most rifles in general, are fine.

.30-06 recoil is negligible after you shoot a box of it. I bought a Remmy 700 Mountain and it's definitely fun to carry and shoot. Don't know about the other rounds, though.
 
I'll have to disagree, respectfully, with Mulliga, in his comments that a .30-'06 recoil is negligible; it is less than the magnums patriot mentioned, but that doesn't make it "low."

You're probably aware that weight absorbs recoil, so a heavier rifle in any given power will recoil less than a lighter one. I mention this because I just had occasion to try out a 10-pound (yes!) pre-64 Winchester M70 Supergrade in .30-'06. It's new owner inherited it from his late father, who bought it new in 1955. I mention that because it's clear his father felt no need for 50 years for a more powerful rifle, but also because its new owner found it to have more recoil than he enjoyed shooting. It's also likely to be two pounds heavier than today's rifles, so be warned.

IMO, the rifle makers are burning their futures by pushing the various magnums on new shooters, who will soon abandon the rifles because of recoil discomfort. They'll just sit in the back of the closet and gather dust. Sorry - rant mode "Off."

I've been shooting for 40 years and have recently bought a low-cost Ruger M77 MkII in a mild-recoiling 6.5X55 Swedish, and am loving it. It's by far the most accurate rifle I've ever owned, will handle deer with ease (and some say "elk," also), and I shoot it 50 rounds in a single session, something that I could not do with a .30-'06. There are other rifles equally suitable for shooters -.260 Remington, the older .257 Roberts, and even the 7MM-08 or the .308 Winchester, the stiffest performer I think a new shooter could likely shoot well.

Hmm. I promised "rant mode 'Off'" - I guess the switch was stuck.

Jaywalker
 
The Weatherby Vanguard in .30-06 will do just fine.

You say the rifle fits you and points well -- that's important. The .30-06 is a long-proven hunting round. The .308 is about the same, but has a bit less potential if you handload.

I really don't think you can go wrong with the .30-06 -- and of the three cartridges mentioned, this is the mildest in terms of recoil.
 
The 30-06 is a very versatile cartridge. On the upper end of the performance spectrum, you can buy Federal Premium "High Energy" cartridges loaded with 180gr Nosler Partion bullets that run about 2,900 fps - close enough to the .300 Win Mag and the new .300 Win Short Mag to be unnoticeable in the field.

On the lower end of the recoil/perfomance scale, Remington has come out with a "Managed Recoil" load that shots a 125gr PSP at 2,660 fps. There is a write up in the July 2004 issue of Guns Magazine on this new ammo.

If you are a handloader, you will run out of money before you run out of options to test. For reduced loads, try Hodgdon's website (http://www.hodgdon.com/). They also list reduced loads for .300 Win Mag. These can be found under the "Youth Loads" category. Other data sources are virtually unlimited

In addition, the odds of finding a box of '06's anywhere ammo is sold is very high.

The '06 is an excellent choice IMHO.
 
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Patriot, you havent yet told us whether this will be your first high powered rifle? If so, seriously i would say go with the 30-06 or .308.
 
I would also vote for the 30 06 just because it is a great all around large game rifle and ammo is plentiful.

I have a Winchester Model 70 in 30 06 and it came with a steel butt pad. I really disliked shooting it because it kicked so harshly.

After installing a recoil pad it is enjoyable to shoot.

If your synthetic is too harsh, put a recoil pad on it.
 
regarding high powered rifles

thanks for the comments so far...

I suppose that this would be my first "high-powered" rifle. The majority of my previous rifle experience has been with a .308 AR (target, a little hunting in MD, etc.), and I don't really notice that recoil. I spent the past two years living in Ohio, where we were not permitted to hunt with a rifle...too flat I guess. Anyway, I spent two dear seasons using a mossberg 12ga slug gun. In the field, I had no trouble with it, but bench sessions...to sight it in...only lasted about 5-6 rounds before my shoulder started to defeat any attempt at adjusting my scope. I am told that the felt recoil from that gun was very similar to "high-powered" rifle...could be BS though. All that to say...I feel fairly confident that I could handle to the 30-06 recoil, and I had been leaning towards it because of the reloading possibilities. I guess even if you didn't reload, the selection is still pretty broad.

So..at this point, I am definitely leaning towards the 06...
 
Go with the .30-06, and don't look back. Either the Howa or the Remington would make a fine rifle for hunting. I lean toward the Remington, but that is personal bias. The Savage does not seem to be as refined as either of the other two, but it may be more accurate "out of the box." Any of them should have adequate "hunting accuracy."

Clemson
 
A 12ga full power slug, shot off the bench is supposed to be equivalent to a .375 H&H (African hunting round).


The .30-06 will not be a problem for you if you're used to a .308 AR, the recoil level is not much different, there will be a little more since it's not a straight line stock like the AR and it's a bolt gun, but not a whole lot more.

I put sixty rounds off the bench through a Weatherby Mk V in .30-06 helping someone sight it in and the gun shot quite well, the trigger sucked but that's fixable. Otherwise, it was a nice piece.

Personally I'd take a Remington or Savage since they are easier to adjust/get worked on or find accessories for, but if the Weatherby/Howa fits you, go for it, it's a solid design.

The WSM has more recoil than the .30-06 and the Win Mag has a bit more than that. The .30-06 will kill anything on the North American continent with proper shot placement, (people have killed moose with .30-30s you know.....and the .30-06 is more powerful), the Magnums are just overkill to me.
 
a quick addition to the discussion

Found a Sig SHR 970 w/scope and case in 30-06 today for $375. It is on consignment at a local shop. The scope is a simmons 4x12 prohunter I think. The rifle is "used" but I could not see any wear on any of the major components. Bolt, extractor, and receiver all looked brand new, and the bore was very clean with sharp rifleing. It seems like a deal, but I have no experience with Sig's except their pistols...which have been pretty high quality in my experience. Any thoughts?

--Steve
 
Get the rifle. Ditch the scope for something appropriate to that grade of rifle (Burris, Leupold, IOR Valdada, Nikon, etc). Expect to spend $400 on a good scope and rings.
 
bought the Sig

like the title says...

I like this gun! It is very much nicer than anything else I could have gotten for the money..$350. Hopefully tomorrow I can shoot it. I am going to sight in the simmons scope and see how it feels and works for me. I am hopeful that I can at least get good hunting accuracy...maybe 2" max at 100 yards. We'll see how it goes. Anyway, I'll post again with more info in a few days.

--Steve
 
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