New rifle...theoretical elk hunt

[Dr T]

Actually, since even the 22-250 will work on any theoretical elk (just shoot the theoretical elk behind its theoretical ear), I would spend the money on some very good boots (like Meindl's) AND some good binoculars. The 6.5 CM is certainly capable of taking non-theoretical elk at practical hunting ranges. The really good boots may save some of your delicate body parts (including your ankles) should you be so fortunate to take one. And binoculars are always useful to have around (and can change theoretical elk to the non-theoretical variety).

But, IF you just want another rifle, maybe you should look at the 300 Win Mag or 338 Win Mag. However, they will hit your shoulder a bit harder than the CM. (BTW, my theoretical elk rifles are a Sako TRG-S in 300 Weatherby and a Winchester Model 70 in 375 H&H. The 375 is also my theoretical Cape Buffalo gun...And Picher's advice on recoil is quite sound)

 

[mlp021]

Thanks all for the excellent advice. I agree with some of the posters that a 6.5 Creed would get the job done, but I'm also itching for a new rifle.

Have it narrowed down to a 7mm mag or a 30-06. Probably will pick up whichever one I can find a better deal on. Also, for the larger bore guys, I've got my eye peeled for a 375 (probaby the Ruger vs the H&H) for Nilgai.

To the posters thinking I haven't shot heavy recoil rifles...in my teens I owned a 7mm mag and a 300 win mag. In my late 20s - early 30s I traded them in for sensible rounds (at least for Texas animals). To tell the truth, the 22-250 shooting 64gr powerpoint has been Thor's hammer for Texas Whitetail.

And, as mentioned or speculated, this rifle will be a peace of mind rifle for the off chance, I head up to around Meeker or Craig Co and grab an OTC elk tag and have at it.

And, for the 280/280ai fans...I'd love to own one day, and if I get a 30-06 it will probably in short order be converted to a 208/208ai...but the 06 will serve me handedly if I never get around to it.

 

[JD Pinardi]

I've taken plenty of Elk with my 30-06's in Oregon, when I moved to Arizona I picked up a 7mm mag only because a lot of shots started to be in excess of 300 yds and the 7 mag seemed to hold better at those ranges. Depends where your hunting and what the surroundings are. I shot an Elk about 10 years ago and thought it was about 250 yds from me, when I hiked back to find my casings it was almost 400 yds,Things are not always as they seem in the desert in the heat of action.
JMO
Happy shootin'
JD

 

[Slamfire]

What about a nice 35 Whelen?









It makes a big hole, neck sizing 30-06 brass is a breeze, shoots just fine out to 300 yards, the distance I have zero'd my hunting rifles. The cartridge seems to be at its best with 225 grain bullets, but a 200 grain 358 bullet is not to be sneezed at, and it should have all the penetration anyone can want on a big animal like an Elk. Elmer Keith was very positive about this cartridge.

 

[mlp021]

^^ Always wanted one, but being lefty, would probably be a custom or a rebarrel

 

[LoonWulf]

^^ Always wanted one, but being lefty, would probably be a custom or a rebarrel

I always did too. Untill I got my .375 done, now I've kinda lost interest in the other medium bore rifles.

It, and it's bigger brothers the .358 Norma, and .358 STW are still great rounds tho.

 

[Llama Bob]

For elk I would really target a sectional density for the bullet of at least .28, preferably .30 which combined with a premium bullet should give pass-through performance on all reasonable shots. In various calibers that means:

.264/6.5mm: 140gr, preferably 156 or 160
.277/270: 150gr (or more if your gun will stabilize them)
.284/7mm: 160gr, preferably 175gr
.308: 200gr
.323/8mm: 220gr
.338: .225gr, preferably 250gr
.358/.35: 250gr

Now some of those weights are more readily available and stabilize well, others maybe not so much. The high-SD calibers of 7mm, and .338 have it easier with bullets exceeding as .SD of 0.3 readily available. I would suggest selecting from one of those two. The 7mms are probably the most popular. The 30 cals are an option, but there are very few spire point hunting bullets of 200+gr available, the ones that are available mostly have bad BCs, and the 180s really don't penetrate that well. The .338s recoil quite a lot for my taste. 6.5mm and 8mm can work well, but both are bullet constrained as bad or worse than .30 if you want premium design, high SD and high BC.

 

[Nature Boy]

A .280 AI would make a great all around deer/elk choice.

I really think that’s an underrated hunting cartridge, as .30-06 variants go.

 

[LoonWulf]

I really think that’s an underrated hunting cartridge, as .30-06 variants go.

That's ones on my list of will aquire.

 

[Llama Bob]

I really think that’s an underrated hunting cartridge, as .30-06 variants go.

I agree. I don't think it's much better or worse than the 7WSM, but it's definitely hotter right now.

 

[ACES&8S]

270 Weatherby Magnum, Look up the Velocity & Energy plus if you reload it with light bullets
it can burn coyotes way out there.
The 7MM Magnum is the 2'nd best choice, per cheaper to shoot & powerful plus accurate as well.

 

[zaitcev]

Wanting something bigger than the Creed...

What is your elk shot range? In Colorado, it's basically impossible to shoot further than 75 yards. People use 45-70 for elk.

 

[T.R.]

I grew up in northern Wyoming hunting with my Grandad and my uncles. Several dozen elk have been slain by our group that hunted with non-magnum rifles. 300 Savage, .308, and 30-06 were the most popular rifles with us. I toppled my first elk with an antique 30-30 fired from a distance of about 75 yards or so. Two quick shots into the chest did the job for me. Although elk do not react to the first shot like other animals, they are not difficult to kill.

TR

 

[RecoilRob]

I don't know about you guys...but 'Theoretical Elk' around these parts are tough critters that take BIG guns to take down. (kidding) I hunted elk in CO years ago with a 30-30 and didn't feel undergunned though I also didn't get a chance to see how it would work, I'm sure a good shot would have done the deed as it has thousands of times in the last 100 years. You really don't NEED another gun....but WANT another one which is fine and dandy. Why not go for something out of the same class just so you're prepared for a 'Theoretical Rhino' or Buff?

 

[Captcurt]

Have it narrowed down to a 7mm mag or a 30-06. Probably will pick up whichever one I can find a better deal on. Also, for the larger bore guys, I've got my eye peeled for a 375 (probaby the Ruger vs the H&H) for Nilgai.

.

Don't sell the old 30-06 short. I had a friend who was in India back in the 50's who took a dump truck load of game with a JC Higgins 06 and 180gr. Winchester Silvertips. His list was sambar, black buck, leopard and nilgai. None of them were impervious to the 180gr. I have to admit, however, that he was one of the best shots that I have known.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Hard to argue with the success of the 7mm Rem Mag.

What about the .280?

The .280 is a fantastic round, is what we set my sister up with for big game, and it's served her very well. But it's also not much of a step up over the 6.5 Creed, basically going to give the same trajectories with a little heavier bullet. I would choose the .280 over the 6.5 CM for hunting, but I wouldn't sell a 6.5 CM to buy a .280 for hunting.

I use a .25-06 for elk most of the time.

What is your elk shot range? In Colorado, it's basically impossible to shoot further than 75 yards. People use 45-70 for elk.

Have you hunted here? Doesn't sound like it. I've been in a lot of elk camps over the years, seen a lot of different rifles carried. .45-70 has never been among them. You're far more likely to find someone using .243 here than .45-70.

 

[mlp021]

Have you hunted here? Doesn't sound like it. I've been in a lot of elk camps over the years, seen a lot of different rifles carried. .45-70 has never been among them. You're far more likely to find someone using .243 here than .45-70.

Mach,
What do most folks hunt with up in your parts?

 

[MachIVshooter]

Mach,
What do most folks hunt with up in your parts?

Pretty decent variety, but the common ones are, in approximate order of popularity that I've seen:


.30-06
7mm Rem Mag
.300 Win Mag
.308 Win
.270 Win
.25-06 Rem
7mm WSM
.280 Rem
.338 Win Mag

less oft encountered include .243, 6mm Rem, 6.5x55, .260 Rem, .270 WSM, 7mm-08 Rem, .30-30 Win, .300 RUM, .35 Whelen and others. But just about everyone is using something between .257 and .338 cal with no smaller case than .308 and very few using big magnums based on .375 H&H or RUM size. I do have an 8mm Rem Mag that I take for bull elk hunts sometimes, but usually stick with my .25-06 & 117 gr. Sierra Gamekings loaded pretty hot. I truly have never seen anyone carrying a .45-70 or .450 Marlin on an elk hunt, nor other straight wall critters like the .375 Win. They'll get the job done, but you're just as likely to have a long shot across a clearing or between two ridges present you as a close up in the dark timber, so most people want to have something with a trajectory more conducive to that potential 300+ yard shot.

 

[Llama Bob]

The straight walls really don't make much sense for Colorado hunting. There are some other places with shorter shots where I could see them. The list you have is fine - wouldn't be my order of preference, but probably reflects popularity for big country elk. I would say there's a good number of .300 and .270 WSMs now too - more than 7mm WSMs.

In terms of preference, 7mm WSM/SAUM, .280AI, 7mm Rem Mag, .264 Win Mag, 6.5-06AI and 6.5 Leopard/WSM would probably top my list.

 

[Newtosavage]

Hey all,
I am wanting to purchase a new rifle for no other reason that I want one.

I currently have a
Tikka T3x 22-250 (1-8")...great rifle for range work, yotes, Texas whitetail, and Pronghorn
Tikka T3x 6.5 Creed...great rifle for all the above and throw in mule deer and hogs
CZ 22lr
CZ 17HMR

Wanting something bigger than the Creed...for a theoretical elk hunt. I "know" the Creed would carry me well, with keeping shots to a reasonable range.

Can pick up a Tikka in 270wsm or 7mm mag for a decent price (I'm a lefty, so factor that in). What advantages would either of this cartridges offer me over the Creed for elk at 350 yards max....or for that matter, a 7mm-08? Also, what would be the potential for recoil increase be..all things being equal (i.e., same manners stock, factory barrel, Leupold VX5 scope, talley rings, Pachmayer pad, etc.).

If the Creed would carry me well for a theoretical elk hunt...any other smaller calibers to add to the collection...6mm Creed, 243, etc.?

I chose a stainless Tikka T3 in 7mm-08 as my "mountain rifle" for the theoretical elk hunt that I am finally going on this fall. Before that, I had a stainless T3 in 30-06, but that combination proved to be a shoulder-beater when shooting full loads in that light of a rifle, and I like shooting my rifles and working up loads. I've always loved the 7mm-08 caliber, so I traded the '06 off to pay for one that I was very, very fortunate to find on the used rack at our local Cableas last year.

Loaded with 162-grain ELD-X bullets, my Tikka spits those out at a respectable 2700 fps, and from my calculations that should be fine up to 400 yards, and possibly further under perfect conditions. There really is no practical difference between a .270 and a 7mm-08 except that you can load heavier bullets in the 7mm-08 (which is why I chose it over the .270).

I nearly went with the .308 but I've always preferred the 7mm bullet and wanted the option to shoot 120's at deer. However if my stainless T3 was a .308, I would be just fine with that too. The .308 only gives up about 100 yards to the '06, and it's much more pleasant to shoot from a sub-7 lb rifle.

The 7 mag is a great elk caliber. Just keep in mind that a 7mm-08 is a 7 mag minus 100 yards. So if you're willing or able to get 100 yards closer, then the 7mm-08 will do exactly the same job without pounding you at the range, and most likely without collecting dust in the safe. Personally, I'm not comfortable taking 500 yard shots even at elk, so I chose the lighter rifle that is going to be used more often.

 

[zaitcev]

Have you hunted here? Doesn't sound like it. I've been in a lot of elk camps over the years, seen a lot of different rifles carried. .45-70 has never been among them. You're far more likely to find someone using .243 here than .45-70.

I usually go west of Ft.Collins, and I use a 30-06 because it works just fine. My friend who hosts me uses 45-70. Brush is very thick unless you find a shot across a young clear-cut. There may be some hills around Durango somewhere, I guess, which allow a long-range shot. Or, north towards Cheyenne where it's basically Wyoming.

 

[George P]

Cost of rifle would be somewhere at/around $700 if it needs a new stock (plastic stock would turn into manners). If it already has a carbon fiber stock...somewhere around $1,200.

But, I'm a lefty...so it could complicate things.

I have an older 700BDL LH 7mm mag; excellent gun, shoots 160s into tiny 3 shot groups. Wears an older B&C bedded stock; also have the original; currently wearing a US Weaver 3-9

 

[Mosin Bubba]

For elk, the absolute smallest I'd personally go is 130 gr .270s. I'd feel better with an extra 200 FPS of juice from a 7mm Mag.

A heavy '06 load or a 300 Win Mag would work too.

But ultimately, I'd only buy an elk gun if I knew I was going to be hunting elk. There's no real need for a "sevumag" on anything smaller than elk, and I wouldn't shoot that rifle just for kicks either.

 

[MCMXI]

I really think that’s an underrated hunting cartridge, as .30-06 variants go.

The limited success of the .280 AI has been in large part due to the limited availability of factory ammunition making it a reloader's cartridge. Nosler was the only player in town for the longest time and their ammo has always been marginal at best. Then Hornady offered an ELD-X load in the last year and half, and now another major ammunition manufacturer is on the verge of offering .280 AI loads. I like the .280 AI due to the high BC bullets, great bullet selection for the hand loader, relatively low recoil, and proven effectiveness on deer and elk out to 800 yards. I'm thinking of a Hunter barreled action in a Montana stock with a Zeiss RZ800 optic ... if I'm not happy with the outcome of the current 6.5 PRC experiment, since one would make the other redundant.

 

[George P]

When I lived near Rifle back in the 80s, most folks were in the 270/7mag/30-06 group for elk, as some shots could get a tad further than the previously stated 75 yards. Shots at 200-400 were not totally uncommon, depending on where you hunting.