New To Gas Checks

[Saw-Bones]

I came across a YouTube video (WiederladerTV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUUr4Hlgad8) where the demonstrator stated the he could make gas checks with the FreeChex III tool using aluminum soda cans and put them on cast bullets that did not have the gas check shank because the gas checks were so thin.

Is this true, how fast can the bullet be driven without fouling the bore? I want to make gas checked bullets for my M-1 Carbine and my IAI .30 caliber pistol to start with and later for a 300 Blackout AR-15.

Thanks….. Doc

 

[ReloaderFred]

If you go here: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?60-Gas-Checks There's enough reading on the subject there to keep you busy over the whole weekend.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[Saw-Bones]

Fred - Thanks for your input, but I just wanted to get my feet wet reloading bullets with gas checks. I was looking for the easy way to get started without making a commitment out of it.

If I like it I will surely go to the link that you provided. Meanwhile, I still want to try this. Any comment about if this idea will work?

 

[Reefinmike]

At that velocity range, i would look into just powder coating your bullets. No problem pushing powder coated soft lead bullets 1925fps in 300blk and 357 mag. The powder coat is supposedly good for 2600+fps.

 

[clearcut]

Just powder coat then gas check shoot them as fast as you want.
CC

 

[35 Whelen]

SIGH...the "easy" way is to just buy a mould designed to cast bullets that accept gas checks, then buy gas checks.

You can powder coat, and there's loads of information out there on it, but it's funny, when the subject of powder coated cast bullets and accuracy comes up, the silence is deafening.

35W

 

[Saw-Bones]

35W - I'm not interested in casting bullets. I am interested in pushing my stash of 5,000 non-gas-checked shank .30 cal. cast bullets beyond the point were serious barrel leading begins.

You said, "...it's funny, when the subject of powder coated cast bullets and accuracy comes up, the silence is deafening." I have no experience with powder coated bullets, so I'm not getting your drift here. Would you mind explaining?

I will look into powder coating before I proceed any further to see if it is the most efficient way of reaching my objective.

 

[clearcut]

Go over to the cast boolets site and look in to the powder coat thread lots of info there. I use the coolwhip air soft "BB's"(black) and a yard sale toaster-oven W/Harbor freight red P.C. you should be able to use (load) them hot enough to cycle M-1 with out gas checks or leading'
CC

 

[35 Whelen]

35W - I'm not interested in casting bullets. I am interested in pushing my stash of 5,000 non-gas-checked shank .30 cal. cast bullets beyond the point were serious barrel leading begins.

You said, "...it's funny, when the subject of powder coated cast bullets and accuracy comes up, the silence is deafening." I have no experience with powder coated bullets, so I'm not getting your drift here. Would you mind explaining?

I will look into powder coating before I proceed any further to see if it is the most efficient way of reaching my objective.

Several years ago I made a tool with which I could flare Hornady .35 caliber gas checks so they could be applied to plain bullets. It worked great and there was absolutely no loss of accuracy. You might consider this.

My drift is, you can't apply powder to bullets using the methods I've seen and get coating a consistent thickness all the way around the bullet. So when the coating on the bullet varies in thickness, the bullet is out of concentricity which is about the worst enemy when it comes to accuracy with bullets.

You can go to the Cast Boolit site and read up on powder coating as there is a section there just for that subject. What you WON'T see is glowing reports regarding the accuracy of powder coated bullets. Yes, some have achieved sporadic accuracy, but overall, it just isn't there. So, that's why I've never used powder coated bullets.

What exactly are you wanting to do with your bullets? Plink? Hunt? How fast do you intend to run them? It's not much of a feat to run cast bullets in the 1500-1600 fps range without leading.

35W

 

[Hondo 60]

I'm not interested in casting bullets. I am interested in pushing my stash of 5,000 non-gas-checked shank .30 cal. cast bullets beyond the point were serious barrel leading begins.

I can't see how it would work.
Bullets are made to be .001-.003" over barrel diameter.
Now you want to add a gas check to a NON-checked bullet???
I could easily see the check getting ripped off.
Then you have 2 projectiles, maybe.
I just wouldn't do it.

I may be wrong, but I doubt it.

Just my 2¢ worth. YMMV

 

[Saw-Bones]

35W - Thanks for the explanation… I got your drift now. I don’t think that I would be happy with inconsistent accuracy even if it just plinking with my carbine.

I bought the 110 gr. round nose bullets for the carbine with future plans to use them in the pistol. I’ve been driving Hornady 100 gr. half jacketed bullets at 1600 fps in the pistol with surprisingly good accuracy that I’m happy with, but I just wanted to see what I could do with the cast bullets.

 

[41 Mag]

I cannot say how many of the aluminum checks have been sent downrange on the plain base bullets but I guarantee it has been plenty.

The main deal is you have to put them on using a sizer either the Lee push through type or one like the Lyman 450/4500. Either one will work but you still have to basically swadge the check into the lead on the bottom of the bullet.

I tried some out on some 357 bullets I poured up a little soft and had mixed results. Even using some Imperial lube I had some which went on fine and some which simply galled up and made a mess out of things. Nothing major but the bullet was useless. That said, a fellow I converse with plenty on another forum seems to have the process down pat and uses them all the time. However he cast his bullets with a softer alloy which allows the check to swadge into it a little easier than when using a standard say 14 BHN alloy. So if your shooting commercial cast and they are in the 14'ish or higher BHN range, which is usually the case, your going to experience some difficulty in applying the PB checks to them.

As for powder coating, that is something to look into. The accuracy I have gotten is just like everything else firearm related, what works in one doesn't necessarily work in another. My powder coated bullets shoot fine, while not bench rest accurate, they are easily capable of tight enough groups out of my handguns and even out of my .308 for hunting or anything else other than say Bullseye comp. That said though, if your bullets are already lubed, which I figure they are, your not going to be able to coat them. This is something which has to be done when they are naked so the coating has nothing but lead under it.

I have a Blackhawk in 30 Carbine that I have no issues shooting plain base loads through. I haven't had a chance to clock them but I doubt they are hitting 1600fps. They do however shoot very well. I have loaded them to the somewhat standard books max loads using 2400 and 296, but my favorite is AA-9. I mainly use the little thing to teach my grandson the finer points of shooting a handgun due to the smaller frame and grip size fitting his 13yr old hand. Not to mention he simply loves the thing. Maybe not as much as my GP-100, but it is still a bit much for him to shoot free handed like he does with the BH.

I would love to have one of the IAI versions like yours. It would go well with my Javelina.

 

[243winxb]

Gas Checks - High velocity 1800 to 2200 fps.

Soda cans are about .004" thick. Swaging it into a plain base bullet is a bad idea. The lead is displaced. Where does it go? With the bullet base being most important for accuracy on a rifle, you dont want to deform it. High velocity needs hard alloys. This means you may break a Lyman 4500 sizer. A Lee would have to be used. For best accuracy, hard alloys are needed to avoid the bullets stripping the rifling or *slumping , on firing. The Hornady GC has a lip to lock onto the bullets base. A homemade GC will compress the lead and aluminum on sizing. The lead will not spring back as much as the aluminum. This leaves a GC loose that may/will separate from the bullet in flight. Flyers will result. I have cast a few.

[/URL][/IMG] Just my guess, i have not tried aluminum GC. Doing your own testing is the only way to know.IMO.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The Coke Can gas checks are designed for plain base bullets -- for gas check design bullets, use thicker copper.

The gas check is crimped on by the sizer. I like a Lee sizer, which sizes nose first and controls all your problems with using a coke can gas check on a plain base bullet -- the bullet is totally inside the die when the check is crimped on, and any bulging is sized away as the bullet progresses through the die. You may experience a slight "doming" effect, but this does no harm that I can tell.

 

[243winxb]

"doming" I would guess, some are better than others.

[/URL][/IMG] Remington Bullet 9mm 147 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point.

 

[Saw-Bones]

Hondo 60 - The video shows the .004” thick gas checks being crimped into the base using a Lee sizer. Mention has been made that this system works when the lead hardness is BHN 14 or less and under certain conditions there is a doming effect - read on.

41 Mag - You might have shown me a snag in my project. The bullets I have were HARD cast by the Valiant Bullet Co. These bullets in all my handgun calibers are the hardest I’ve ever reloaded and at the max velocity of all my hand guns they leave no perceptible signs of barrel leading and they clean up easily.

About my IAI Automag III - Many of the reports I read about it were less than glowing. I bought it right after IAI closed shop and a distributor was “dumping” them from his inventory, so using the FFL I had at the time I got it ridiculously cheap. It has turned out to be one of the best buys I have ever made. Accurate and reliable, but the fireball from a cartridge that was made to be fired in a 19” barrel is awesome even in the daytime. I’ll bet you experienced that with your Blackhawk as well. I used H-110 with a 100 gr. half jacketed bullet and I was able to get 1600 fps. with some flattening of the primer. I don’t think you could hit 1600 fps out of a handgun with a 110 gr. bullet without some real high pressure signs.

Vern - I mentioned to 41 Mag (see above) that my bullets were hard cast. I don’t know what the BHN is but all the signs show no leading at as much as 1400 fps. So given what 243winxb had to say about aluminum gas checks having more spring back on hard cast bullets, do you think I would have a problem with separation and/or doming? I would sincerely appreciate your reply….. Doc

 

[Elkins45]

I have used some of the plain based checks on a bevel based 40 caliber bullet (water quenched) to be driven hard in 10mm. I used the Lee push thru sizer and once I got the hang of it they did OK. They end up looking terrible because the check doesn't always uniformly meet the side of the bullet evenly, but surprisingly they increased the accuracy as compared to shooting them plain.

I experimented with running them thru the sizer base first as well as nose first (it's flat nosed bullet) but unfortunately I don't remember which approach worked best.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Vern - I mentioned to 41 Mag (see above) that my bullets were hard cast. I don’t know what the BHN is but all the signs show no leading at as much as 1400 fps. So given what 243winxb had to say about aluminum gas checks having more spring back on hard cast bullets, do you think I would have a problem with separation and/or doming? I would sincerely appreciate your reply….. Doc

I think the Lee Sizer (or any sizer) will size your bullets, no problem. That means it will properly crimp the coke can gas check.