New to reloading! Advice is welcomed.

Status
Not open for further replies.

TrickyDick

Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
763
Location
Maine, USA
I am looking to start reloading due to expensive .45ACP prices, and the fact that I personally think of it as a skill and an art. But I was looking into Lee reloading equipment, I had a veteran reloader tell me that they're good and inexpensive. However, I had a younger competition shooter tell me they were junk. So I would like some input. To get an idea of my situation; I'm 22, married, no children, a man-cave garage with a thrifty wife.
 
This is a frequent and very reasonable and logical question, I'd first suggest doing a search and reading the MANY threads on this very topic.

Short answer? Nothing wrong with Lee products and I am happy with mine. And there are many other options and makes out there that make excellent equipment.

Also read a couple reloading manuals like Lee's and Lyman's to name just two.
 
In reality there are very few presses on the market today that are junk. Some are better than others, but most everyone is putting out a good product at some price point or another.
I have a Lee single stage press that has thousands of rounds with only one problem that Lee very promptly took care of for free even though it was years out of warranty. My plan is to pick up a Lee classic turret soon too.
The flaming will start shortly I'm sure because it seems so many reloaders bleed blue, green, red or whatever the color of their chosen press is. I started with Lee because I got the press as a gift, and it's been a solid press. If the time/money comes I'd love to try a progressive and would definitely look @ Dillon but the Lee suits my needs just fine. (200-300 rounds of .22-250, and 2-3k .45ACP per year plus some other misc.)
 
Well, if they were junk they would have been out of business long ago instead of expanding.

Does the competition also think every thing has to be ordered from Sinclare? Nothing against Sinclare except I feel some of their products are way overpriced, but that is just my opinion and only counts for me.
 
I hate to sound like a broken record but....use the search function. Or simply start scanning the reloading forum for threads titled with nearly your identical thread title. Topics covered will include "competition shooter" (volume), "thifty wife" (budget), "man cave" (available space), and "brand X is junk" (color loyalty/snobbery), and many, many others. Folks in here are very helpful and offer great advice, but get very weary of answering the same question(s) over and over. You'll likely learn a lot more from threads with similar titles to yours than from this one you've started. I'm not trying to be mean at all, but SEARCH!

Me, I load only .45acp. I chose a Hornady LNL-AP and am quite happy. I searched and read a lot to come to my decision.

ETA: The one piece of advice common to every thread like this is buy 2-3 reloading manuals read them cover to cover. Repeat. Then consider step 2.
 
1. Tell your thrifty wife you wish to save money. Of course, this isn't what happens since you will eat up all the savings and more with shooting and the purchase of "thingys." Never-the-less, this approach works very well.

2. I used a single stage press for years and loaded thousands of rounds with it before I bought a turret press. I still use the single stage press though. Also, since I bought an RCBS press, it's still under warranty lo these 25+ years later while if I had bought a Lee press, the warranty would have expired some time in 1985.

3. People buy Lee stuff because it is "cheap" and is considered disposable when it breaks years down the road. Just so there is no misunderstanding, I have a Lee Classic Cast press and multiple Lee dies and Factory Crimp Dies so I'm not against all thing Lee. That said, I'm quite glad I started out with an RCBS kit since I'm still using that press, the scale and the powder measure I got with it with complete satisfaction.

4. Sinclair's stuff is in many case overpriced but some of it is very good and not easily obtainable elsewhere.
 
Well, we never have any problems getting opinions do we? FACTS are harder to find tho.
---------------------------------

" I had a veteran reloader tell me that they're good and inexpensive."

That's one plus vote from an experienced old hand who knows what he's talking about.


"However, I had a younger competition shooter tell me they were junk"

That's one minus vote from a cocky young guy who is sure he knows more than he can prove (after all, he's a "competive" shooter, so he must be an expert, right? Just ask him if you aren't sure of that! ;) )

Now, your problem is, "Who you gonna believe?"
--------------------

Me? I've been reloading for 45 years now. There is no reloading brand I don't have several items from on my bench and none of it's junk, including a good bit from Lee. I buy my tools for the specific features I want, not the color of the box it comes in or silly price snobbishness. (Well, I don't have anything from Dillon, but only because I don't need or want a progressive and my local dealers don't carry blue stuff.)
 
In my opinion, Lee presses and dies are pretty good. The powder measures and scales can be troublesome. Drum style measures like the RCBS Uniflow, Hornady L-N-L, or the Redding are good alternates.

A single stage press is a good thing to have around. Even after you have moved on to something else, there are some specialized tasks that just work better on a single stage. So, I recommend starting with a single stage. Most of the stuff would be useful when upgrading to something else later.

That said, if you elect to buy a higher volume system first, plan to learn reloading in a "single stage mode". In other words, do the same task to a batch of brass before moving on to the next task. You will learn faster that way. Eventually, you can transition to the higher production processes.

Get several reloading books and read, read, and read some more.

Enjoy your new hobby. I enjoy reloading.
 
It's not a coincidence that the older experienced guy told you they were good, and the young man told you they were junk. Usually older guys are experienced and his advice is probably from years of working with the products. I'm guessing the younger guy is just repeating something he's heard a brand snob say.
I've never used a Lee press. I bought a Rockchucker Supreme kit to begin with, but I have heard nothing but great things about the Lee Classic Cast press and would not hesitate to buy one. I use Lee dies and have encountered no problems there. They work just as good as the RCBS dies we have.
 
Check eBay for a used press. Quite a few show up there. I just picked up an RCBS Jr3 for $35. Shipping added $15.
I have used Lee dies. Never had anything else Lee. The dies work fine.
I bought a Herter's press when I was still in high school. $13 new. Still use it.
I think a single stage is just fine for beginning, and it may also be all you ever need.
Depends on what your ammo needs are. If you don't shoot over 300 a week, a single stage is just fine.
 
lee is good stuff.

i run a loadmaster and its smooth as silk. hiccups are very rare (i cant remember the last one)

HOWEVER,,,,,,,,,,,, i would not suggest a full progressive as a first press.

but i would suggest a lee.
not junk.
very smooth.
 
IMO the Lee Classis 4 Hole Turret Press is a great buy. The Auto-Index feature is great and so is the price. I can safely load between 180 to 200 rounds of .38 Special in an hour and right around 150-175 rounds of .45 Auto in the same time. I said safely, not rushing and cutting corners.

The Classic press is Cast Iron and a much better press than the "Deluxe" press. The linkage is much heavier and so is the ram. The spent primer handling is better on the Classic Turret press too. I do most of my loading on that press because it works and works well... Your "thrifty wife" will like it too.

Also, the Lee Carbide pistol dies are a good bargain too. You can buy a 4 die .45 Auto set from Lee for ~$35 or a 3 die set for ~$25 while a 3 die set of .45 Auto dies.

You can buy a Classic Press Kit from Kempf for $178 which includes most of what you will need. I suggest both upgrades for the additional $22 which is still under $200 for the hole kit.
 
10 Advices for the novice reloader.

Archangel CD is right. Sue Kempf helped me a lot and she uses a Lee Classic Turret.

Here are 10 advices I composed for the new reloader. My perspective is that of a handgun reloader.

When I first started (with a single stage press) I could produce about 50 per hour. I recommend doing things one process at a time. Multiple operations at a time are too complex for me to keep track of. My due care kept me moving too slowly. I used progressives for a while, but but finally have settled on a Lee Classic Turret as my preferred machine. Others may choose differently, but this one suits my style and temperament.

I have thought of a few things I think are useful for handloaders to know or to consider which seem to be almost universal. So much is a matter of personal taste and circumstance, though. So, all advice carries this caveat, "your mileage may vary".

Bonus advice: Advice zero, if you will, "Why load?"

At the same time as I bought my first gun (.357 Magnum Dan Wesson revolver), I bought a reloading setup because I knew I could not afford to shoot if I did not reload my own ammo. It cost me about 1/4 of factory ammo per round and paid for itself pretty quickly. However, most shooters will not realize any savings at all. Instead of shooting for 1/4 the ammo cost, you will shoot four times as much for the same cost. However, handloading can be more than a means to an end (money savings or increased accuracy), it can be a satisfying pastime in itself.

Now, here are my Ten Advices.

Advice #1 Use Reliable Reference Sources Wisely - Books, Videos, Web Sites, etc.

Study up in loading manuals until you understand the process well, before spending a lot of money on equipment.

I found "The ABC's of Reloading" to be a very good reference. Short on loading data but full of knowledge and understanding of the process. Check out offerings in your local library. Dated, perhaps but the basics are pretty unchanging.

Read as many manuals as you can, for the discussion of the how-to steps. What one manual covers thinly, another will cover well. As far as load data in older manuals, the powder manufacturers and bullet manufacturers may have better information and their web sites are probably more up to date. But pay attention to what the ammunition was test-fired from. (regular firearm vs a sealed-breech pressure test barrel, for example)

The reason you want more than one or two manuals is that you want to read differing authors/editors writing styles and find ones that "speak" to you. You also get better coverage of the subject; one author or editor may cover parts of the subject more thoroughly than the others.

The public library should have manuals you can read, then decide which ones you want to buy.

There are instructional videos now that did not exist in the '70s when I started.

Richard Lee's book "Modern Reloading" has a lot of food for thought, and does discuss the reasoning behind his opinions (unlike many manuals, and postings). Whether right or wrong, the issues merit thought, which that book initiates. It is not a simple book, though and you will find it provocative reading for many years.

Only after you know the steps can you look at the contents of of a dealer's shelves, a mail-order catalog or a reloading kit and know what equipment you want to buy. If you are considering a loading kit, you will be in a better position to know what parts you don't need and what parts the kits lack.

Advice #2 All equipment is good. But is it good FOR YOU?

Almost every manufacturer of loading equipment makes good stuff; if they didn't, they would lose reputation fast and disappear from the marketplace. Better equipment costs more generally. Cast aluminum is lighter and less expensive but not so abrasion resistant as cast iron. Cast iron lasts practically forever. Lee makes good equipment, but is generally considered the "economy" equipment maker, though some of their stuff is considered preferable to more expensive makes. Just think about what you buy. Ask around. Testimonials are nice. But if you thing Ford/Chevrolet owners have brand loyalty, you have not met handloaders. Testimonials with reasoning behind them are better.

Be aware that many handloaders don't use brand names, prefering the manufacturer's chosen color, instead. RCBS equipment is almost all green; Dillon, blue; Lee, red. Almost no manufacturers cross color line, so many handloaders simply identify themselves as "Blue" or whatever. But this is not 100%. I have a Lee Powder Scale that is green.

On Kits: Almost every manufacturer (and retailer) makes a kit that contains everything you need to do reloading (except dies and the consumables). A kit is decent way to get started (with less puzzling over unknowable questions). Eventually most people wind up replacing most of the components of the kit as their personal taste develops, but you will have gotten started, at least.

Advice #3 While Learning, don't get fancy. Progressive or Single Stage? Experimental loads?

While you are learning, load mid-range at first so overpressures are not concerns. Just concentrate on getting the loading steps right and being VERY VERY consistent (charge weight, crimp strength, seating depth, primer seating force, all that). Use a "fluffy" powder (takes up a lot of space for the charge -Trail Boss is one) that is, one that will overflow your cartridge case if you mistakenly put two powder charges in it, and is easy to verify that you have not missed charging a case with powder.

Learn on a single stage press or a turret press. Do not learn on a progressive press. Too many things happen at the same time, thus are hard to keep track of. Mistakes DO happen and you want to watch for them ONE AT A TIME until handloading becomes second nature to you. You can learn on a progressive, but it is easier to make mistakes during the learning process.

Note: A turret press is essentially a single stage press with a moveable head which can mount several dies at the same time. What makes it like a single stage rather than a progressive is that you are still using only one die at a time, not three or four dies simultaneously at each stroke.

Also, a good, strong, single stage press is in the stable of every reloader I know, no matter how many progressives they have. They always keep at least one single-stage.

Advice #4 Find a mentor.

There is no substitute for someone watching you load a few cartridges and critiquing your technigue BEFORE you develop bad habits or make a dangerous mistake. (A mistake that might not have consequences right away, but maybe only after you have escaped trouble a hundred times until one day you get bit, for instance having case lube on your fingers when you handle primers 99 times, no problem because primers are coated with a sealant, but the hundredth primer may not be perfectly sealed and now winds up "dead")

I started loading with the guy who sold me my press watching over my shoulder as I loaded my first 6 rounds to make sure I did not blow myself up, load a powderless cartridge or set off a primer in the press. I could have learned more, faster with a longer mentoring period, but I learned a lot in those first 6 rounds, as he explained each step. I educated myself after that. But now, on the internet, I have learned a WHOLE LOT MORE. But in-person is still the best.

After you have been mentored, mentor someone else. Not necessarily in loading or the shooting sports, but in SOMETHING in which you are enthusiastic and qualified. Just give back to the community.

Advice #5 Design your loading space for safety, efficiency, cleanliness

When I started reloading, I did not use a loading bench at all. I just mounted the press on a 2" x 6" plank long enough to wedge into the drawer of an end table My loading gear all fit in a footlocker and spread out on a coffeetable, end table and/or the lid of the footlocker. Good leverage meant the table did not lift or rock. I still use the same plank, but now it is mounted in a Black & Decker folding workbench. A loading bench "bolted to the center of the earth" (as some describe their setups) would be more stable, but I do not feel deprived without it.

You will probably spill powder or drop a primer eventually, so consider what you have for a floor covering when you pick your reloading room/workspace. I would not try to vacuum up spilt gunpowder unless using a Rainbow vacuum which uses water as the filter medium.

Advice #6 Keep Current on loading technology

Always use a CURRENT loading manual. Powder chemistry has changed over the years. They make some powders differently than they used to and even some powder names may have changed. However, if you are using 10 year old powder, you may want to check a 10 year old manual for the recipe. Then double check with a modern manual and then triple check with the powder maker.

Read previous threads on reloading, here are a couple I read.

TheFiringLine.com, "Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting"
THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS - Powered by Social Strata
RugerForum.com :: View topic - Interested in reloading
RugerForum.com :: View Forum - Factory Ammunition and Reloading
The second one is a thread started by a new recruit to reloading which the moderators thought highly enough of to make it "sticky" so it stays on the top of the list of threads.

Advice #7 You never regret buying the best (but once)

When you buy the very best, it hurts only once, in the wallet. When you buy too cheaply it hurts every time you use the gear. The trick is to buy good enough (on the scale between high quality and low price) to keep you happy without overpaying.

Advice #8 Tungsten Carbide dies (or Titanium Nitride)

T-C dies instead of regular tool steel (which require lubrication for sizing your brass) for your straight-walled cartridge cases. T-C dies do not require lubrication, which will save you time. Carbide expander button for your bottlenecked cases. Keeps lube out of the inside of the cases.

Advice #9 Safety Always Safety All Ways.

Wear eye protection, especially when seating primers. Gloves are good, too, especially if using the Lee "Hammer" Tools. Children (unless they are good helpers, not just playing around) are at risk and are a risk. Pets, too unless they have been vetted (no, not that kind of vetting). Any distractions that might induce you to forget charging a case (no charge or a double charge, equally disturbing). Imagine everything that CAN go wrong. Then imagine everything that you CAN'T imagine. I could go on, but it's your eyes, your fingers, your house, your children. Enough said?

Advice #10 Remember, verify for yourself everything you learn from casual sources. Believe only half of what you see and one quarter of what you hear. That goes double for everything you find on the internet (with the possible exception of the actual web sites of the bullet and powder manufacturers). This advice applies to my message as much as anything else and especially to personal load recipes. Hare-brained reloaders might have dangerous habits and even an honest typographical error could be deadly. I heard about a powder manufacturer's web site that dropped a decimal point once. It was fixed REAL FAST, but mistakes happen. I work in accounting and frequently hit "7" instead of "4" because they are next to each other on the keypad.

Good luck.

Lost Sheep
 
Last edited:
Lee makes stuff that will load very good ammo assuming you do your part. Like folks have said, if it was junk, they would be out of business. It is the best bang for your buck out there. Is it the best? No. Will it work just fine? Yes.

Get the Lee classic turret kit, an RCBS or Redding scale and measure, and go for it. (The lee auto disk measure will suffice to start, but IMHO you will outgrow it and want more versatility.)

Want to start an argument? Tell folks Lee is junk. :eek:
 
You are going to get opinions!

Reloaders/handloaders are FULL of them!

The reason your competiton shooter says that Lee is junk is that he has different needs than your other friend and no, Lee is not the best choice for him. That is the reason he gave that OPINION! ;)

If you are looking only at saving cost, Lee is the place to go. If you are looking for massive amounts of ammo, Dillon or Hornady progressive presses are the ticket.

A Lee Classic Cast Turret Press is a good place to start. Lee carbide pistol dies are just fine, I use mine in a progressive press and have NEVER had a problem. The powder measure that comes with a Lee kit will need to have an adjustable powder bar, about an additional $15, added to it or as Walk has said, a different measure all together.

Their stuff is inexpensive. That doesn't always correlate to "cheap" in quality.

With the Lee Classic Cast Turret Press kit, you will get everything you need to do 45ACP except dies. Lee dies are about $30 for carbide ones. You will have a way to prime the cases right on the press.

Hope this helps.

If you are going to buy Lee, check here first:
www.kempfgunshop.com

I am not affiliated in any way to Kempf. They just happen to be close and they LOVE Lee stuff. Almost everything is in stock too.
 
Lost Sheep...

That is one excellent post. IMHO it should be made a sticky on this and every reloading forum out there.
 
I started out with a lee anaversary kit, had everything that I needed to get started short of dies. I have had good luck with every Lee product that I have used. The only thing I have found, I preffer a different brand of dies, especially when loading bottlneck cases. As you spend time and gain experience at the loading bench, you can pick and choose what you want to upgrade in your reloading toolbox from the original kit. I think the only thing that I wanted to have when I started that wasnt included was a set of calipers, something that would be helpful if you are loading the .45 ACP, to get the overal length just right.
 
It may be offensive to some - lol - but I have been totally satisfied with my Harbor Freight digital calipers - under $20 if memory serves. It is quite likely they are made in the same plant in China that makes a number of "store brand" sets for up to $10 more. Works well enough for my needs, costs little.

I know they are not 'NASA' grade or anything, but take whatever brand measuring device you prefer and measure the OAL of each round in any box of factory made ammo. Let me know if they all fall within the same 4th decimal place that your measuring machine can register. I didn't think so - lol.
 
$100 lee single stage kit

$300 lee classsic cast turret ( with all the bells a whistles )

$600 dillon 550 ( everything to get started including tumbler) I run a 550 and it's great

$600 + dillon 650
 
Lee Anniversary Breech Lock Challenger Press

My experience with Lee goes back three decades including the old "Lee Whack-a-Load" which by the way, I would wish on my worst enemy.

I'm currently using a Lee Challenger with Breech Lock quick change bushings. I don't know if the other colored presses use anything like this system, but I'm sold on them. I load at least a half dozen different pistol calibers and although this isn't the fastest press, it suits my purposes for Black Powder cartridges.

As stated above, "Go Slowly", and "Learn" all you can. I suggest you leave anything except a "Single Stage" press alone until you are well versed in the art of loading. There's just way too much going on with a progressive when you're new to the art.
 
I bought a Lee Classic Cast (single stage) about 15 months ago and have loaded about 5000 rounds - 9mm, .45ACP and .44Mag. I use Hornady Lock-n-Load bushings in it. I'm perfectly happy with the set up. It's not fast; I do about 50 rounds per hour, but that's mostly because I'm a little obsessive. I inspect every case, clean every primer pocket, weigh every fifth charge and measure every tenth overall length. The only Lee product that's failed on me is their hand priming device - I forget what they call it. Mine broke, so I went with the RCBS equivalent which works great.
 
Last edited:
The only Lee product that's failed on me is their hand priming device - I forget what they call it. Mine broke, so I went with the RCBS equivalent which works great.

Years ago, like pre-internet days, the Lee Auto Prime was the only tool like it on the market. Not only was it considered THE tool for hand priming, it was also economical. I kept two on hand, one set up for small and one for large primers. I would break or wear out something about once a year. Since I had the second unit on hand, I would not be hindered in my reloading until I got replacement parts.

Parts are more available for the Auto Prime today. Also, the major manufacturers have their own similar hand priming tool.

I still keep two priming tools on hand set up for each size primer.
 
It is difficult for you to know what you will like and dislike until you use some of the tools. I started out with Lee's hand press, powder scale, powder measure, case trimmers and hand primer. The only ones of those I still use are the Perfect Powder measure (occasionally) and the case trimmers (for pistols only, and rarely when they even need it). Were the rest junk? NO! It all worked, and I reloaded some fine ammunition with all of it. But only by using them did I find some features I disliked, or might prefer on other equipment.

You can spend a lot more on a kit from RCBS, Lyman or Redding, and still not have the equipment you might want to end up with. It's cheaper to replace cheap equipment you decide you don't like than to replace expensive equipment you dislike.

If Forster made a reloading kit, I might have a different opinion, but to be honest, the only Forster equipment I have is their Co-Ax press and rifle dies (both are excellent). I use an RCBS universal hand primer and their QC uniflow powder measure, L.E. Wilson trimmer for rifle cases, and a Hornady bullet puller.

I prefer a hodge-podge of reloading dies:

Rifle full length sizing dies: Forster
Rifle neck sizing dies: Lee Collet Neck Sizer
Rifle seating dies: Forster Benchrest
Rifle Crimp dies: Lee Factory Crimp (collet type, when needed)

Handgun sizing: anyone's carbide or titanium nitride sizing die
Handgun neck flaring/expansion: Lyman M-type or Redding equiv.
Handgun seating die: Hornady
Handgun roll crimp: Redding Profile (if not crimping while seating)
Handgun Taper crimp: anyone's taper crimp die
Handgun crimp for bottleneck cartridges: Lee FCD (collet type)

Andy
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top