New to reloading, is $1795 a good price to start?

[Eb1]

I got started with a Lee Loader $19.95 for 30-30.
Then I moved to this.
Lee Challenger Press (USED), Funnel, Trickler, Calipers, Scoopes, Dies (3 calibers), Shell Holders, Scales, Frankford Portable bench thingy.

This all cost me about $200 give or take.

 

[qajaq59]

We all like different equipment. Whether it costs $19.95 or $1,995 doesn't matter too much. Just so long as the holes are in the right place in the target or in the critter.

 

[JoelSteinbach]

I good way to start would be with the Dillon 550, It would handle all of your needs as well and get you into a fast and reliable system. I have been using their products for 12 years, the company is a pleasure to deal with, and a wealth of information

 

[Gasitman]

Is it a hassle with the 550 and not being able to put a case loader on it? I really do not see the value in a press that I can not put a case loader on it.

 

[cavman]

Dillon 650.

I went Dillon 650 for my first two plus years ago with all the bells and whistles from BrianEnos. Definitely the right decision for me.

I am primarily a .45 ACP shooter, and my needs of 300-400 rounds in an hour's time from time to time are satisfied with the 650.

I did make an upgrade to the UniqueTek http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1231 powder dispenser this last winter. Love it!

 

[zxcvbob]

I really do not see the value in a press that I can not put a case loader on it.

How many thousands of rounds do you plan to load each month? (serious question.)

 

[oneounceload]

You really might want to look on your local Craig's list, Ebay and all of your local gun clubs/ranges to see if anyone is selling something used. Like other high-priced toys, reloading equipment that is used tends to drop 30-50% right off the bat, so something in good shape can be had for pennies on the dollar.

Example - I just bought another MEC Jr. for shotshell..New, they go for about 150-175; this wasn't used much, came with about $50 in accessories, for $65.00.

RCBS, LEE (especially on Ebay), Hornady, seem to show up a lot........

Even if you need a part or two, most will ship them to you free

 

[dmazur]

Is it a hassle with the 550 and not being able to put a case loader on it? I really do not see the value in a press that I can not put a case loader on it.

For some reason, there must be enough demand for this that Dillon came up with a partial solution. As I undertand things, there is a case feeder for the 550. It handles pistol cartridges but not rifle.

Actually, there are a large number of 550 owners (including me) who don't mind indexing, then picking up a bullet with one hand and a case with another. The 550 is kind of simple in its layout, compared to progressive presses with more features. There's less stuff you have to adjust.

You're still going to have to deal with trimming the .223, so it really doesn't lend itself well to progressive loading without interruption. Some resize on a single stage before using a progressive to finish loading operations after trimming, while others just "interrupt" reloading on a progressive to handle trimming.

IMO, unless you are approaching commercial loading volume (like thousands of rounds per week), you won't see much real gain between 550, 650 and 1050.

Compared to a single stage press, any progressive is a big improvement in production. (Provided you don't have to fiddle with it constantly...)

 

[Gasitman]

So you think I need a single stage also? I am confused as to why.

It also seems to me that all the dies and other stuff with the 550 is twice as much as a hornady. Any reason why?

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Everybody should start with a single stage press...its better for learning the "particulars", and easier to keep an eye on them as well.

 

[Gryffydd]

So you think I need a single stage also? I am confused as to why.

You'll figure it out pretty quick if you don't get one. They always come in handy. Sometimes you just want to make up 10 or 15 test rounds.
For rifle rounds it's easier to resize/deprime them on a single stage. Then once you've cleaned the lube off and trimmed them (and maybe primed them) you can run them through your progressive.
The single stage can also come in handy for pulling bullets.

It also seems to me that all the dies and other stuff with the 550 is twice as much as a hornady. Any reason why?

Sometimes I think Dillon's pricing is a marketing ploy... Some people will default to the most expensive option assuming it to be the best.
Their presses do have some advantages over the Hornady, but the Hornady wins in a few areas as well. The pricing difference in your case is also partly due to Dillon's higher cost of changeover related items (dies, shellplates etc.).
Don't forget to count in the fact that the Hornady comes with 500 free bullets, and each die set comes with 100 as well.

 

[RandyP]

Lee Classic turret setup, spend the remaining $1,300+ on components, maybe a new pistol, and range fees.

 

[GRIZ22]

I was hoping to get into this for around $1k. Am I dreaming or what should I do? I really do not want a single stage kit, as most people that I have talked to at the gun range say I will eventually get a progressive anyways.

A progressive press is nice. Pull the handle 50 times and you have a box of ammo. There is also a lot more room for error in using a progressive. I've found most people who start with a progressive find many issues. Among them:

1. Poorly seated primers.
2. Double powder charges (dangerous!)
3. No powder charge (also dangerous)
4. Quality control issues which result in less (sometimes much less) than 100% reliability.

Starting with a single stage makes you go slower and you actually learn more about reloading. If you wind up buying a progressive after the single stage you would find yourself using the single stage for small batches of ammo for testing, load development, etc.

Another issue you need to consider is if you decide reloading is not for you (many do) you have a $1800 piece of equipment to resell vs $100-200 in a single stage. Bigger amrket for the latter and more sure of a sale.

Just some things to consider. I've been using a single stage for 35 years and it has met all my needs.

 

[Gryffydd]

FWIW, I started out with a progressive, and ended up with a single stage and a hand press both for doing small miscellaneous tasks. If I had to do it over again, I'd start out with the single stage.

There's a reason the recommendation from 99% of serious reloaders is to start with the single stage

 

[dmazur]

It also seems to me that all the dies and other stuff with the 550 is twice as much as a hornady.

I found the following -

Shell plate - $41 (H) $43 (D*)
3-die set - $88 (H**) $62 (D)
Powder die / PTX - $40 (H)
Powder die - $10 (D)
Toolhead - $21 (D)
4 LNL bushings - $22 (H)

* Dillon shell plate kit includes the correct powder funnel (equiv to Hornady PTX)
** Hornady resizing, seating and taper crimp dies for comparison with Dillon die set

TOTALS - $191 Hornady / $136 Dillon

As the designs are not identical, exact comparisons can't be made. For example, most 550B owners have a toolhead set up with the dies for each caliber, and this implies an additional cost of $21 per caliber. Hornady uses LNL bushings, and four of these for each caliber are $22.

The Dillon stuff doesn't appear to be twice as expensive, but is actually about the same price as Hornady. If you run the numbers for the 650 press, they are higher than for the 550, but I still don't get double the price for Dillon.

 

[Gryffydd]

I found the following -

Shell plate - $41 (H) $43 (D*)
3-die set - $88 (H**) $62 (D)
Powder die / PTX - $40 (H)
Powder die - $10 (D)
Toolhead - $21 (D)
4 LNL bushings - $22 (H)

WOW! Where were you shopping!?

Shell plate - $32 (H)
3-die set - $42 (H**) INCLUDING expander
Powder die / PTX - $40 (H) Not needed. The dies come with an expander, and the powder measure comes with all the drop tubes you need.
4 LNL bushings - $15 (H)

That comes out to $89 Hornady.

 

[dmazur]

There is also a lot more room for error in using a progressive.

I'm not sure I agree with this.

I think that a progressive press can turn out a lot of bad ammo in an amazingly short time, due to its production rate. However, if the instructions are followed and each stage is set up correctly, there should be no increased error per stage.

After all, the same dies are used, single stage or progressive, and they are set up the same way.

What seems to happen is that 100 cases are fed through before the user realizes the seating depth was wrong. He checks the ammo after it falls out, skipping the all-important step of setting up the dies as you go.

Or, as I just read about, he decides that he can interrupt the process and adjust powder charge "on the fly", resulting in an uncharged case.

Starting with a single stage makes you go slower and you actually learn more about reloading.

From some of the posts I've read, I don't see this happening. If someone wants immediate gratification, a single stage is no guarantee of learning. Slow does not necessarily equal safe.

I also read about an experienced reloader who managed to mess up a powder charge / loading block operation, used with a single stage press. All he did was get distracted and the result was a double charged case.

As a shooting / reloading community, I believe we should stress the importance of learning the process of reloading and move away from the tiresome single stage / progressive debate.

 

[Gryffydd]

However, if the instructions are followed and each stage is set up correctly, there should be no increased error per stage.

Assuming that everything IS set up right--and it won't be when you're starting out--you still have a greater chance of problems when you're doing all the operations in the same stroke.

I believe we should stress the importance of learning the process of reloading and move away from the tiresome single stage / progressive debate.

Yep, and guess what the best way to is to learn the process? Yep...a single stage

If someone wants immediate gratification, a single stage is no guarantee of learning.

If someone wants immediate gratification they need to go buy ammo.

Slow does not necessarily equal safe.

No, but faster SURE doesn't equal safe...

 

[dmazur]

WOW! Where were you shopping!?

I got the Hornady prices from their 2010 catalog and the Dillon prices from their web site.

Apparently there are considerable price breaks from volume dealers, which Dillon doesn't use.

However, I was trying to put together an "apples-apples" between two dissimilar machines -

The Dillon 550 doesn't have the ability to use an expander die, but has to use a "powder through expander" which they call a powder funnel. The Dillon die set includes a separate taper crimp die, which many believe is the way to go for reloading semi-auto cartridges that headspace on the case mouth, so I included a Hornady taper crimp die (available separately).

If you go with the standard expander die and ignore Hornady's latest PTX stuff, but include a taper crimp die, you get around $110. The Dillon stuff still isn't $220, so I'm not sure where "double" comes from.

Perhaps "more", but not "double"...

 

[dmazur]

Yep, and guess what the best way to is to learn the process? Yep...a single stage

Why not the Lee "Whack-A-Mole"? That's what I learned on.

There are many progressive users who started on a progressive and had no trouble at all. As I remember, they followed instructions, or emailed factory support if they had questions. And they used reloading manuals.

My point was, the type of equipment is not a guarantee of safety. User attitude is paramount.

I used my 550 for at least 50 rounds, one case at a time, until I understood the process and believed the machine was set up right. Then I happily cranked away and watched .45 ACP fall out one round per handle pull.

No, but faster SURE doesn't equal safe...

Well, faster means the poor guy has 100 rounds to pull down instead of 10.

All a progressive press offers is production rate. I firmly believe it is not inherently dangerous, any more than a BMW is more dangerous than an Escort. With proper judgement "behind the wheel", it doesn't matter what type of press a guy has.

And putting an idiot behind the wheel of an Escort isn't going to make him a safe driver, no matter how slowly he drives.

 

[sonier]

get the progressive, but also get a cheapo simple single stage press from lee or ebay. learn on the cheapo single stage first and once you figure out all of the quirks, then start your progressive.

 

[mboylan]

Is it a hassle with the 550 and not being able to put a case loader on it? I really do not see the value in a press that I can not put a case loader on it.

Hold your horses. There's just too much going on with a 650 for a beginner to be safe. Read the ABCs and a couple of manuals, then come back with questions.

If you are going to load .223 on a progressive, you are going to want a single stage for resizing, anyway. You need to lube, resize, trim and then tumble the lube off.

 

[qajaq59]

If you trying to crank out 5000 .45s then a progressive is great. But if you want to do 20 .223s and maybe 50 .308s and some .357s all on the same day I think I'd prefer the single stage. You have to kind of match your equipment to what you are doing. And how long you're going to do it. There really isn't any right or wrong to it. You just need to sit down and decide what it is you want to do and then buy the best equipment to do it.

And remember, there isn't any status to what equipment you have. That only comes from where the bullets end up.

 

[Duckdog]

I'm reading these prices and almost passing out! Your going to do what you want, and no doubt, have for the most part made up your mind, without the advice of people you've never met and don't know.

If your willing to shell out 1800 clams, or even a 1000 for that matter, do it.
You have no doubt noticed that there are always two camps when it comes to equipment. 1/2 buy modestly priced stuff and accumulate it slowly, as the need arises, which allows them to learn and appreciate the new item. And the other 1/2 that just go out and buy everything straight away. Kind of the A-Z without stopping method. Both undoubtedly produce excellent ammo that will go bang when the tribber is pulled.

I'm not trying to be mean, but there is usually a carbon copy of this type of post within 50 posts from the top at any given time on this forum and the people are almost always split and answer the same... myself included.

You just need to figure which 1/2 your in.

Good luck either way.

 

[cavman]

So you think I need a single stage also? I am confused as to why.

You'll figure it out pretty quick if you don't get one. They always come in handy. Sometimes you just want to make up 10 or 15 test rounds.

I have extra dies , Dillon and Redding Competition seating dies. Will virtually any single press fit them? Making up a few rounds here and there with a single press sounds good.