Newbie needs some help!

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mark.r.turney

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Hey all,
I need to start out by saying up front I am a newbie at reloading. I am reloading the following brass, bullets etc... and something odd is happening and I am not sure what. Hopefully someone can square me away.
  • Remington brass (.40 S&W)
  • Berrys Preferred Plated Bullets 155gr Flat Point (.401)
  • RCBS Rock Chucker Single Stage Press
  • RCBS Carbide 3 die .40 S&W
I am expanding the brass opening at a depth .166 inches

When I seat the bullet the brass crushes down and forms a ring in the brass where the bullet bottom is located. The top of the bullet is also marked as though it was crushed a small bit. http://images.thehighroad.org/smilies/cussing2.gif

I am lost and don't know what is causing this. I am sure it is nothing new to our experienced members but to me it is. Please help me figure this out. http://images.thehighroad.org/smilies/confused.gif
Thank you!
 

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What seating stem are you using? Did you run the crimping/seating die down until it just touches the case mouth and then turn it back up about a 1/4 turn. You don't want to set the crimp until after you have the seating depth of the bullet adjusted. Once you have the bullet seated to the depth desired, raise the seating stem and then gently lower the crimping die until it just removes the bell from the mouth of the case. After the crimp is set, use the bullet you just seated to reset the seating stem. This will allow you to crimp and set the bullet in one operation. Hope this makes sense.
 
Either the bullet is too big, the case too small or the brass is too soft. I've seen similar results trying to seat a bullet intended for a 9x18 into a 9x19 case.

I'd guess you're not using the proper size neck expander or you're trying to seat and crimp in the same die as already suggested and for some reason the crimp is being applied before the bullet is fully seated. Possibly it's a combination of factors. In those cases you need to start eliminating possibilities one at a time ... start with crimping.

Back off the seating die so no crimp is applied and seating only occurs. If the problem goes away, you know it's crimping related. If not, you have to pick another variable to eliminate.

As far as flaring is concerned, it's as much an art as a science. Just enough to prevent [lead] shaving and provide ease of bullet entry but not so much as to needlessly work harden the brass. Since I cast and my 9mm boolits are sized to a hair larger than plated or jacketed, I flare for cast diameter needs. I have no idea my depth of flaring, I just do what works. I do however, taper crimp such that neck diameters are .001"-.002" under spec to help ensure proper chambering.
 
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Does that bullet have a cannelure? It looks like it at the bottom of the picture, I see a gap at the end of the mouth.

What do those bullets mike at?

Like the others said, back off you crimp die and lower the seating stem so you are only seating and go from there. A taper crimp die doesn't really show a crimp, it will show a shinney area where the crimp occurred.

I think you are over crimping and hitting the end of the travel above the area in the die that does the taper crimping.
 
Probably as parker51 pointed out.

I did have that happen once in 380. Out of 50 reloads, 4 had crumpled casings like yours. Turns out that those 4, the casings (PMC) had thicker walls. By about .003". That is when I added a taper crimp die. Thought I would throw that in there.
 
It looks like you've put on too much crimp or your projectiles do not have adequate canelures.
 
It looks to me that your seat/ crimp die is set down too far. Unscrew the die about a 1/4 to 1/2 turn. As your bullets mic .401 you may have trouble chambering the rounds. I have that problem with my CZ 75. If I use .400 dia bullets i don't have any problems. I had more difficulty setting up my dies for .40 S&W than any other caliber.
 
Probably as parker51 pointed out.


I think so too. Looks as if you have the crimp ring turned down too far and are crimpming long before the bullet is seated. If you look at the case mouth it almost looks like a roll crimp as opposed to the taper it should be.
 
Separate crimp die is best for auto loaders in my opinion. Get a 4 die set. It can be done with the 3 die sets but setup is critical on the combo seat/crimp die. Auto loaders head space off of the rim and should have only a slight taper crimp.

I have had the best luck with Lee and Dillon pistol dies (4 die sets).
 
Woolecox is correct about 4 die sets. Best to learn on a 4 die set before going to a 3 die set.
 
Looks to me like you are seating and crimping in the same step. It'll work, but, the adjustment is pretty critical . Your pic looks like the bullet is still moving as the crimp is tight around the bullet, gripping the case and pushing it downward, buckling the case. Try loading a case in the same manner you use now, but back off the crimp, then crimp separately and see if your results are better...
 
Thanks!

All,
Thank you all for the input. I will try a four die set and see if that helps. Will let you know how it goes.

Thanks again for all the great input!

Mark
 
I'll walk you through a couple steps that should get you going with far less frustration and collapsed cases.

First thing, resizing. This only requires that you insert the shell holder in the ram, extend the ram fully, then thread the resizing die in until it just makes contact with the shell holder. Too much hard contact can fracture a carbide sizing ring.

Pick up the expading die / belling die, back the top threaded stem out all the way. Now extend the ram fully, then thread the die in until it makes contact with the shell holder, then back it out 1 - 1-1/2 turns, lock it down. Now with the shell holder installed, and a resized empty case inserted in the shell holder, run the ram to full extension, then start threading the expander stem in until you feel it make contact with the mouth. Back the ram down, adjust the expander stem down a little bit at a time until it's belled just enough that a bullet sets up on / in the mouth. It should just barely enter the case mouth, just enough to avoid shaving or catching on the case mouth. The trick here is to bell as little as necessary to accomplish seating without crooked start, shaving, or hanging up on the case mouth.

The area I strongly suspect is responsible for your problem, is improper seating die adjustment. So, insert the shell holder into the ram, insert a completely Resized piece of brass into the shell holder, then run ram to full extension, then thread the seating die in until you feel it make positive contact with the case mouth. Back the ram down, then thread seating stem out / up as far as it will go. Put a bullet on top of the brass, guiding it with your fingers into the die if necessary, then while the press is at full extension, thread the seating stem down until you feel it make contact with the bullet. Thread the seating stem down in small increments until you' seated the bullet to the desired oal, thus assuring it passes the plunk test.

Now rather than teach you how to seat and crimp in one step, I'm going to explain to you how to crimp after seating, it's easiest for a beginner to learn and get right, thus will save you some time, frustration, and components by doing so. So once you've seated all the bullets, back the seating stem out enough to assure it doesn't make contact with the bullets, 1-1/2 turns should do just fine. Now thread the entire seating die down 1/4 turn, run a completed cartridge up into the die, then check the case mouth to see if the bell has been removed,, if it has, you are finished. If not, then continue threading the die down in small increments, no more than 1/8 turn at a time, as over crimping is what caused your problem in the first place, and it will cause other serious problems also. So the rule here, is only crimp enough to remove any visible bell that remains after seating the bullets, no more, no less. More crimp on rimless cartridges actually reduces neck tension, which leads to an increased risk of bullet set back, not a good thing and it can lead to serious pressure spikes.

GS
 
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