Newbie questions about primer crimps, brass (pics included)

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duck911

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Hi folks,

I am a new reloader, in fact, have not yet reloaded a round. but I have everything together and I am ready to load some .223.

I saw an add from a guy selling "500 once-fired Federal match Gold .223 brass" for a decent price, so I bought the brass.

In hindsight, I believe it would have been much better for my first batch of .223 to have known good brass right off the shelf, rather than having to deal with the uncertainty of what I ended up with. but what's done is done. The brass itself looks great, so no complaints there.

Anyhow, I tumbled the brass then went to decap (RCBS de-capping die in Lee CAST press).

It became obvious that some primers were more snug than others. The really snug ones took more force to kick out and the tops of the primer pockets look different, too.

Here is a snapshot of 2 rounds I have not decapped:

primer1.jpg


The brass on the left would be the one that would be harder to decap.

Here is a shot of 2 other pieces, sans primers. Again, the one on the left would be the brass that was harder to decap.

primer2.jpg


I hear everyone talking about primer crimps on military brass, but I am new to reloading and for the life of me can't find pictures or even a description of crimped primers, but I'm pretty confident that's what I've got.

Can anyone confirn or deny?

This issue brings up a whole other set of questions for me. If I do indeed have 1/2 military brass and 1/2 commercial brass, I assume I need to separate them into 2 different lots because of the difference in case capacity? And, if they were sold to me as "Federal Gold Match" brass, then either I don't understand something (likely) or my seller was alittle less than honest (less likely)

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

--Duck911

(ps - I just about feel that it may just be best to start over with a known variable for my first batch of .223, so I'm debating selling this brass for what I paid for it just to get out from under it. Call me nervous, but this ismy FIRST ATTEMPT at reloading!)
 
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The brass is not military. There should be no military crimp.

Have you tried to seat primers? Seating new primers will tell you if the pockets have been expanded. They will be very easy to seat the primer.
 
Thanks for the replies guys.

BB, you think there is a crimp (indicating military brass) and that I can just swage the pocket. I've not yet reloaded a single round, but my reloading books say that I have to treat this brass differently because the cases are thicker. So, I really do kind of have a problem if i want to shoot this brass all as the same lot (I think?). It also seems there is some debate about the brass thickness issues.

Shoney, you think the brass is not military (due to the headstamp??) so there should be no crimp. Question, when you say to check if "the pockets have been expanded", do you mean loose primer pockets from max lifespan, or that someone's already swaged the pockets?

Basically, I want to make sure i don't blow myself up because I have 1/5th of my cases that I need to load with a lower powder charge.

thanks!

--Duck911
 
The one on the left is definately a crimp. Federal makes brass for lake City. I have about 500 Amerian Eagle rounds that when I opened them up they were stamped Lake City. I use a case mouth chamfer tool and ream out the crimp. Just a little twist and the crimp is gone.
 
All miltary brass using boxer primers is crimped, as is a lot of the stuff made for the police market. nothing like a backed out primer to ruin your day when you go to shoot at a perp. Not that it happens all that often, but it is something that can be prevented by crimping the primer in place.
 
The one on the left has a crimp. If you don't have very many to do you can fix them very easy with your chamfer tool. I wouldn't want to do thousands that way but I have done a few hundred with a chamfer tool.
Rusty
 
IMO, if you don't have too many, THROW AWAY the crimped ones. Toss 'em or recycle them. They're not worth the time or trouble. Uncrimped .223 brass is as common as dirt.
 
Let's say I was willing to make a few turns with a neck chamfer tool on the crimped brass.

Is it SAFE to then treat that brass like the rest in the lot?

--Duck911
 
THROW AWAY the crimped ones. Toss 'em or recycle them. They're not worth the time or trouble. Uncrimped .223 brass is as common as dirt.

Huh? Why get rid of Mil or crimped brass? That's good stuff. It will last many reloads. Either ream (which is what I do) or swag the crimp, trim the case to 1.750", debur and chamfer and you are ready to load. You only need to ream or swag once then you run with it. FC and LC DO have crimped primers, but FC does make case without. It won't hurt if you run the swag or reamer on a non-crimped case as they tool will not make contact with the case. Good luck and enjoy the hobby.
 
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THROW AWAY the crimped ones. Toss 'em or recycle them. They're not worth the time or trouble. Uncrimped .223 brass is as common as dirt.

Brass is 2/3 the cost of ammo. Reload it all.
That guy must work for the government.
 
The one on the left is definately a crimp.

DITTO....BUT, don't throw them away. Get a tool to fix the pocket or let someone who has one have the brass. :)
 
Send all your crimped stuff to me.

I have NEVER have reamed, swaged, champfered, broken a decapping pin, or treated 5.56 crimped brass pockets any differently than uncrimped brass. I can't figure out what all the BS is about crimped brass. Granted I use a couple single stage presses to reload rather than a progressing, but I've had 0 problems with crimped and sealed brass.

Ok it is a little more difficult to seat a primer using the Lee hand tool but other than that, no problems at all. I can still prime 1000 rounds in an evening just watching TV on while on the recumbent bike.

BTW my brass is mostly NATO 5.56 stuff. No problems with any of it.
 
"...Is it SAFE to then treat that brass like the rest in the lot?..." Relax, you're not going to blow anything up. Even if you have milsurp brass. It just won't hold as much powder. You can go to the fuss of weighing a crimped case and a non-crimped case and compare them if you're concerned that much.
Match brass isn't milsurp. Federal doesn't mention anything about the case being thicker on their site. They do make milspec brass for Lake City though.
Taking out the crimp is a one time thing, best done while watching TV with a chamfering tool. Mind you, the swaging tool is quicker, but it's also another thing to buy. May not be worth it for the number you have. Just be sure and get all the crimp material out. It's really obvious as the primer pocket will look just like the deprimed case that had no crimp.
Full length resizing is required every time if you're using a semi-auto.
 
Zippy06, I use the Lee trim tools also. I was surprised how fast and good they worked for the price. I use mine in a battery drill.
Rusty
 
Thanks everyone for the replies.

I have taken a chamfer tool to the crimps of the crimped brass. It looks like I am safe to treat the crimped stuff the same as the uncrimped stuff, since it's not actually MILSPEC, just *crimped*.

It's still not ideal, but for $60/500, even if I only get 3 loads out of these Federal brass (which from the research I have done on Federal brass sounds like a stretch), it amortizes out OK.

Thanks again for the replies!

--Duck911
 
I have NEVER have reamed, swaged, champfered, broken a decapping pin, or treated 5.56 crimped brass pockets any differently than uncrimped brass. I can't figure out what all the BS is about crimped brass. Granted I use a couple single stage presses to reload rather than a progressing, but I've had 0 problems with crimped and sealed brass.

I had a crimped primer pocket that caused the primer to be crushed when I installed it. So I bought a swaging tool. I used to squeeze harder when inserting the primer with my hand priming tool. I agree there is no problem with breaking a decapping pin. Punched out many, many crimped primers. No problems there. But, I did have the problem putting one in once. YMMV.
 
duck911,

If you are loading on a progressive then I recommend buying the Dillon Super Swage and running every round through it. Two week ago I bought 500 rounds of brass off eBay that was mixed head stamp. While I was cleaning up the primer pockets I noticed some of it was military and still had the crimp so I chucked up my Hornady pocket reamer in the drill press and process all of the brass. Well it took me four hour to process about 200 rounds because of the primers not seating properly causing all kinds of press issues. So I purchased the Dillon Super Swage and swagged the remaining 300 cases. Once I did that I ended up loading all of them in 45 minutes. From now on all brass gets swagged since I am now convinced that primer pockets causes 80% of all progressive press issues. By the way I think the other 20% is made up of nicked rims and forgetting to push to seat the primer before you pull to index.
 
So you decap as normal, then you have that extra ring, which almost looks like the diameter of the primer was left behind. then you use a reamer or a swager?

i dont get how a chamfer tool would remove that ring?

will that rcbs swage tool work on a lee classic turret? i heard the case something wont work and you have to remove it, does that cause an issue?

It seems all my standard american eagle .223 has this crimp, is that normal?
 
The FC mark is federal mark for their military stuff, that is crimped.
I learned that the hard way when I picked up a bunch of FC marked .45 brass, couldn't get a primer into any of them.
Get the Dillion swager tool, I had the RCBS and it is crap compared to the Dillion one, and for the same price.
 
the same price, i am showing $90 on dilllons website for the super swage and the rcbs is $25. Are you sure?

Also OT, but i heard thr was down cause hr1022, liberals attacking, so i read the bill, i am freaking cause my brand new bushmaster predator is on the list "Bushmaster XM-15 models" woiuld it be outlawed if that frigan bill goes through?
 
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