News Flash: BERRY to enter SD bullet market

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GaryL said:
A really benign name would be a good idea. Berry's Pitbull'ets might be catchy, but I don't see it being good for long term sales. Anyone recall how it went with black talons?

PD or PDB - Berry's Plated Defense Bullet
PT - Plated Terminal Bullet
PP - Plated Protection
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Black Talon went over real well with the shooters. Not so well with the anti's. So Winchester changed the NAME to SXT, or "same xact thing" (I'd have changed it to Gut Ripper just to watch 'em squirm!). Anyway, that is where the whole restricted LE ammo thing comes from I think. Just before the Black Talon there was a bunch of armor piercing bullets that came out in the mid-late 80's, and those had the anti's fired up. Then someone said that the reason Black Talon was black was because it was "teflon plated and could penetrate armor". Now there was an armor penetrating 9mm bullet that was teflon plated (although I don't think it was intended as armor piercing) and the French THV, which really would penetrate armor. But you know the anti's.

So Winchester pulled the Black Talon and then reintroduced it quietly as Ranger SXT for LE. The prices shot up because it was sought after, LE only supposedly, and so they kept the LE moniker on the box because it artificially inflated the price. They sold for a fortune at gun shows. Now it is called the T-Series, still sold in LE boxes but I can go buy all I want right down the street in all flavors, but because of the original Black Talon hoopla, I still can't get them in components because it is a "magic bullet". BTW, 10mm boxes of Black Talon go for around $100 today. I have a 10mm and I'd love to have the T-Series in 10mm, but I ain't paying $100 for old ammo unless I'm a collector (and maybe that is what they are selling it for, I don't know).

I still have some Black Talons in 147gr. 9mm. I'm waiting for the price to go up before I sell though.

Not long after the Black Talon fiasco there was another guy, Keating? Huntsville AL. He made the Rhino and Black Rhino round. The anti's immediately jumped on it. Not long after they went on sale, the lawsuits started and he pulled 'em. They didn't get very far from Huntsville, and there are still some for sale there if you want to pay $50 for ten bullets (they came in little blister packs --obviously not meant to be used!). Anyway, the Rhino was marketed as a defense round and the Black Rhino as a LE/Rambo/AP deep penetration round. It was reputed to penetrate soft armor, but I can't recall where that came from. The whole thing was a marketing scam of monumentous proportions.

Of course testing proved that it didn't penetrate armor. I think it only penetrated as deep as it did because it failed to operate. Anyway, Keating, if that was his name, tried to capitalize on the Black Talon round by calling his "Black" followed by something fierce, leaking to folks that it could penetrate armor. To add that touch of magic, he put them in a blister pack just like Glaser. But it all blew up in his face.

I kind of like the generic names, like SB2011 (although that sounds like "State Bill 2011" to me!). Anyway, I'm not into the magic bullet names. I do like the T-Series bullet, but it has more to do with the fact that it is good compromise between penetration and expansion. I could do without the AP LE Black Rhino Talon Ranger Teflon and all the other mumbo jumbo.

On the other hand, if you make a bullet that compares to the Gold Dot at the price of plated bullets, it WILL catch on and it WILL sell. A lot of us do load our own carry ammo and a lot of us use the XTP because it is the only premium bullet that doesn't cost a fortune to shoot. In most cases, the Gold Dot would be a better choice for carry, but it is so expensive that I don't really bother with it.

Rainier makes a plated HP. It's cheap and not very well designed, obviously manufacturing ease was the goal with it. Looks like a FMJ with a polygonal hole punched in the top. They shoot about as good as the plated RN.
 
Whatever you decide on for a name keep it simple, no matter the name I am really looking forward to the GP release so I can play with em
 
As most have said, please keep the name low key. Those of us unfortunate to have to use them in a SD situation do not need Mr BG's lawyer spinning the jury up on how he used HP Devistator Bullets to intentionally inflict terminal damage to his poor client. I'll be patiently waiting for your .40 bullets, hopefully in 165 grain (hint hint).
 
Strykervet,

With the original Black Talons, there always was the often repeated but never substantiated claim that the design of the projectile was somehow more dangerous to the latex gloves used in surgery. They were claimed to be more prone to cutting open the glove, thus exposing staff to blood borne pathogens, due to the design.

I don't recall the literature, but I did read once that there was no findings that this had ever happened during surgery. Indeed, any surgery entails risk, and now there exists special puncture evident glove systems that can provide immediate feedback if the outer layer is damaged. Obviously the hype was good for one thing -- jacking up the prices on the secondary market. That's all it accomplished.
 
918v, it's built along the lines of the Speer plated Gold Dot, so I expect it to work well with good penetration. I hope to test fire some soon.
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Umm, no. A 45 caliber 185 HP that actually expands does not have enough sectional desity to reliably penetrate 12" in ballistic jello.
 
918v said:
Big Splat?
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LOL! I understand your concerns with the 185 gr. bullet, but that's not the only weight they're developing. A 230 gr. bullet will do a bit better....it's coming too.:D

I wouldn't carry any less than a 230 gr Gold Dot either....
 
We started with the 185gr because one of our larger OEM customers said that is the one they need first, but once we finalize the profile and internal dimensions it will be made in a 230gr and possibly 200gr as well. I thought the petals with copper on them looked like an orchid, but Black Orchid will definitely bring calls of racism from the leftist rebels that have taken over. I'm a 10mm enthusiast as well and will keep you guys posted on the development of the .401 HP's as they are the next caliber in line. Once again our big customers will drive the initial offering, and that is the 165gr. The 9mm will probably be the hardest to get to open up since it can't be flat like a wadcutter on the nose or it won't feed reliably. The surface area of the HP diameter is a critical element in expansion. Get it wrong and it won't open or will turn in on itself, I know because we have those samples in our round file.
 
Berry's MFG said:
We started with the 185gr because one of our larger OEM customers said that is the one they need first, but once we finalize the profile and internal dimensions it will be made in a 230gr and possibly 200gr as well. I thought the petals with copper on them looked like an orchid, but Black Orchid will definitely bring calls of racism from the leftist rebels that have taken over. I'm a 10mm enthusiast as well and will keep you guys posted on the development of the .401 HP's as they are the next caliber in line. Once again our big customers will drive the initial offering, and that is the 165gr. The 9mm will probably be the hardest to get to open up since it can't be flat like a wadcutter on the nose or it won't feed reliably. The surface area of the HP diameter is a critical element in expansion. Get it wrong and it won't open or will turn in on itself, I know because we have those samples in our round file.
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Sounds exciting. Black orchid, huh? Is "Flower Power" more politically correct?:D

I do have a hard time understanding why your customer wants 185's in .45. Care to explain?

(or for that matter Strutstopper's 165's in .40 when 180's would do more damage.)
 
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Too bad they aren't asking for 200gr to start. That weight has been the best compromise for me for best point of aim in several different pistols. I don't imagine I'd be the only one to experience that.
 
The benefit is their volume drives the project giving us a viable means to do the necessary R&D and build new machines for the new product. Without a big boy wanting them it wouldn't be on the front burner. We had a lengthy test session last night with 12 new variables and I'm dying to step into engineering to see the results this morning.
 
Quit teasing us with all the cool stuff you get to do.

Want to take on an intern? All you have to do is pay my bills so I can goof off... I mean work with you "testing"
 
It's not all fun and games, I wear out barrels, my trigger finger cramps up and don't get me started on lugging around boxes full of bullets in and out of my truck. All kidding aside I was lucky to have the opportunity and guidance from some very good people in the shooting industry, enabled me to put myself into this position. It did take nearly 30 years to get here and moving around from company to company is not the easiest thing to explain to the wife.
 
moving around from company to company is not the easiest thing to explain to the wife.
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Going on 17 years ago (How long I have been where I am) my wife gave me the "I am tired of your two, or even three, W2's some years, pick something and stick with it" speech. All the experience has been invaluable in what I do now though. AC
 
Berry's MFG said:
It's not all fun and games, I wear out barrels, my trigger finger cramps up and don't get me started on lugging around boxes full of bullets in and out of my truck. All kidding aside I was lucky to have the opportunity and guidance from some very good people in the shooting industry, enabled me to put myself into this position. It did take nearly 30 years to get here and moving around from company to company is not the easiest thing to explain to the wife.
Click to expand...

I'll remember how hard it is on you while I'm pouring and finishing concrete Friday for the 6th time since July 4. (at 61) Owning your own company is not the great life of ease some people think it is. No doubt you earned where you are...Enjoy.:)
 
When I moved to St. George from Scottsdale it was a culture shock. The county was less than 50,000 people and we had to go to Vegas to shop at the Costco, Home Dummy, etc.. The restaurants aren't the same either, but she has settled in now.
 
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