Newtown, CT shooting is a game-changer...

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packfan

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I'm a VERY conservative person (husband and father), owner of multiple guns, and a gun rights proponent BUT
this tragedy is a game changer. We can't go on as business as usual. I support the following:
1. Armed plain clothes officer stationed in every school. If taxes need to be raised to pay for this...raise them. Even fiscal conservatives like myself will support this.
2. Ban the sale of body armor and bullet proof vests to the public.
3. Ban the sale (and possession of assault rifles on all public property)
4. Ban the sale (and possession on public property) on all high-capacity clips above 10 rounds.
5. Allow Principals, and school faculty who have passed rigorous background checks, and have conceal carry permits, to carry hand guns on their person, on school grounds. Provide rigorous law enforcement training on when deadly force can and can not be used. Provide rigorous training to prevent guns from getting in the hands of students.
6. Encourage more citizens to get conceal carry training along with rigorous background checks.
7. Allow conceal carry in more public places.
8. Make sure the background checks of conceal carry permit applicants are extremely thorough!
9. Ban the gun show loop-hole. All gun purchases must be permitted with background checks and waiting period.
10. Impose a 1%-2% tax on firearms and ammunition to pay for additional training, background checks, officers, etc.
11. Ban the production and sale of "war games" and ultra-violent video games.

Signed,
A very conservative, gun owning, gun shooting husband, father that realizes that we as a country can't ignore this mass killing of 1st graders. I would personally give up all my guns and my personal gun rights (and yes a little liberty) just to bring back even one of those little children.
 
Way to buy into almost every anti gun lie.

Instead if just following the rest of the ill informed sheep, lose the knee jerk emotional reactions, and go do research. Come up with your own, actually feasible solutions. Think for yourself.
 
^ I understand your statement and sentiment, and I can't disagree with you.
Some things like liberty are worth dying for, BUT freedom has never been and can never be ABSOLUTE. As a civil society, we can never have the freedom to destroy others or future generations, if that means giving up some modicum of freedom and liberty, so be it.
 
I respect the courage you have for posting this. As a long time member I'm sure you realize how extremely unpopular a lot of those suggestions will be around here.

But, many of your points reveal that you've likely never taken the time to read the complete dismantling of a lot of your arguments in numerous threads that have appeared on this site.

I'm not going to bother taking the time to argue with all the points, but I'll just focus on one as an example.

What are you accomplishing by banning the possession of an "assault rifle" on public property? How does that stop a school shooting? Does a murderous/suicidal nutjob decide, "Hey you know what, I'm not going to shoot up a school full of children because the law says I can't take my assault rifle onto public property." It's been said a million times here that such laws have no effect on criminals, so all you are accomplishing is removing the rights of a law-abiding citizen that posed no danger in the first place.
 
It's not about giving anything up.

My statement is about coming up with stupid solutions that don't work to prevent crimes that rarely happen. As if criminals are going to listen to your petty laws anyway.
 
Higher taxes? Losses of liberty? Doesn't sound like a conservative position to me. Tell us how these changes could prevent what happened. He stole the guns from his dead mother.

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"Assaut Weapons" and "hicap" magazines are already banned in Connecticut. Did that stop this mass murder?
 
As mentioned, every item on your list has been logically refuted in previous threads

I suppose you thought prohibition eliminated drunkeness in this country?
 
1. Armed plain clothes officer stationed in every school. If taxes need to be raised to pay for this...raise them. Even fiscal conservatives like myself will support this.
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Ok. I couldn't resist talking about one more of your suggestions. Mostly because this hasn't been discussed as frequently here.

It's almost difficult to comprehend how much of a waste of time and money this would be. The chance of a school shooting happening at a particular school on any given day is north of 1 in 50,000,000. These plain clothes officers could spend their entire careers at 99.99% of the schools without ever doing a single thing. I feel sorry for the police officer that sits in a quiet school all day long with absolutely nothing to do, wasting away their life.

Now, I can't argue with arming teachers or other school officials that are already in the schools doing their jobs, but I'm not sure what the point of a "rigorous" background check is for. For instance, the principal already has complete access to a school, so if he/she wanted to walk into the school and start shooting it up, there's nothing stopping him/her.
 
Phatty,
It did take some courage to post this, and I have been pondering my own gun values since the Denver shooting. Look, I know the arguments against all of what I propose. I do NOT take this lightly. It goes against everything I have believed in for 40+ years. I'm an NRA member for Pete's sake and have been for years.
There is no perfect or even good solution to prevent these tragedies but that doesn't mean we don't have to try SOMETHING. As for the assault weapons thing, look I am NEVER going to be in favor of confiscation, unless you are a convicted felon and are breaking the law by owning guns anyway. I simply no longer think assault rifles have a place in our society. So I would ban the sale of them.
If you own one fine, no one is going to take it from you but it can not leave your property without reasonable justification like taking it to a gunsmith or shooting range, and just like owning a machine gun, it can never leave your possession.

...and BTW, I have never been and never will be anti-gun. I wish every adult in that school would have been armed and trained in the there use.
 
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2. Ban the sale of body armor and bullet proof vests to the public.
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Because the law abiding public has no right to any form of protection against gunfire? Weird.
3. Ban the sale (and possession of assault rifles on all public property)
4. Ban the sale (and possession on public property) on all high-capacity clips above 10 rounds.
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That'll stop murderous criminals, right? Maybe a sign on the entry doors that says 'no guns allowed' would have prevented this recent tragedy?

Ridiculous. :rolleyes:
8. Make sure the background checks of conceal carry permit applicants are extremely thorough!
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What assumption are you operating under that would lead you to believe a permit holder committed something horrendous as Newtown? Apparently you have no idea what your even talking about.
9. Ban the gun show loop-hole. All gun purchases must be permitted with background checks and waiting period.
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Wouldn't have stopped Lanza from steeling those guns and murdering everyone.


Have you read anything at all about this story?
 
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3. Ban the sale (and possession of assault rifles on all public property)
4. Ban the sale (and possession on public property) on all high-capacity clips above 10 rounds.
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Some things like liberty are worth dying for, BUT freedom has never been and can never be ABSOLUTE. As a civil society, we can never have the freedom to destroy others or future generations, if that means giving up some modicum of freedom and liberty, so be it.
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Crimesofthefew.jpg
 
I simply no longer think assault rifles have a place in our society. So I would ban the sale of them.
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These "assault weapons" (they're NOT) you're talking about are excellent home defense and hunting guns, so don't believe the hype that they aren't for anything but killing helpless innocent people.

If you own one fine, no one is going to take it from you but it can not leave your property without reasonable justification like taking it to a gunsmith or shooting range, and just like owning a machine gun, it can never leave your possession.
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Thank God you are not an elected official.

We do have to do something, but it has nothing to do with guns, and everything about helping mentally ill people.
 
I am embarrassed that you are a gun owner. You are not brave. You are a fool.

Do not punish me for the actions of a criminal. Arm the teachers. You will never get the public to give up their gun rights.

A free citizen owns weapons as a defense against government tyranny. As bad as this incident was, Governments killed 200,000,000 of their own citizens in the last century.

No way. They will not get mine. Ever.
 
1. Armed plain clothes officer stationed in every school. If taxes need to be raised to pay for this...raise them. Even fiscal conservatives like myself will support this.

So, lets see, my hometown has 21 patrol officers, split among three shifts. Yet 4 elementary schools, an 'upper elementary' school, a middle school, a high school, and a community college. That's 8 additional officers,at 50k-60k pay a year, and benefits...well, you're adding a SIGNIFICANT additional tax burden, on a VERY slim chance something will happen. Yes, these events are tragic, but lets face it, not all that common. According to the Department of Education, there are in fact 98,817 public schools in the US. Add private and post-secondary schools, we jump to 138,925 schools in the US. Paying just ONE OFFICER to sit at each of those schools, assuming the officer is paid only $50,000 a year (And not even calculating benefits!) would cost the US $6,946,250,000 a year.

2. Ban the sale of body armor and bullet proof vests to the public.

Why? Most mass shooters kill themselves as soon as police show up, how would this help?

3. Ban the sale (and possession of assault rifles on all public property)

Why? AR15s are some of the most popular guns on the market at the moment, the vast majority aren't used in crime. In fact, CT still even has an assault weapons ban enforced, there's a very good chance if the AR15 used at Newtown was CT purchased, it wasn't technically considered an assault weapon at all.

4. Ban the sale (and possession on public property) on all high-capacity clips above 10 rounds.

You think these people wouldn't either find higher cap mags, or just reload every ten rounds? Or maybe that would take too long so they'd just make bombs, maybe shoot open the doors, and throw molotov cocktails in the rooms?

5. Allow Principals, and school faculty who have passed rigorous background checks, and have conceal carry permits, to carry hand guns on their person, on school grounds. Provide rigorous law enforcement training on when deadly force can and can not be used. Provide rigorous training to prevent guns from getting in the hands of students.

Agree with this partially, SOME additional training should be mandated for teachers, however 'rigorous' may be a bit much depending on your own definition of it.

6. Encourage more citizens to get conceal carry training along with rigorous background checks.

Again rigorous, how much of a background check are we talking? Medical records? A colonoscopy?

7. Allow conceal carry in more public places.

So more handguns in public places, but make it illegal to have an assault weapon in public places (Because A. Theres so many brought into public places already? and B. Criminals would care) Overall agree, just seems contradictory to your intent.

8. Make sure the background checks of conceal carry permit applicants are extremely thorough!

Goes with what you said in 6, but once again, HOW thorough? Keep in mind that concealed carriers are one of the most lawful subsets of citizens, is there a larger problem most of us seem to be missing with them that requires they be further checked?

9. Ban the gun show loop-hole. All gun purchases must be permitted with background checks and waiting period.

No. Your intent clearly is to prevent criminals from getting guns illegally. Yet, wait, wont they just steal them or deal with people willing to break the law anyways?

10. Impose a 1%-2% tax on firearms and ammunition to pay for additional training, background checks, officers, etc.

Taxes on rights is unconstitutional in the first place. Second, money earmarked for certain things tends to go rather far from its intended purpose.

11. Ban the production and sale of "war games" and ultra-violent video games.

Really? So lets attack both the first AND second amendment? I've been playing 'War games' since I was a teenager. Recently played through Assassins Creed III, set during the American Revolution, with plenty of killing. Currently play Battlefield 3, a modern warfare based game, rather violent overall. I also own a preban assault rifle (As I'm in CT, once again we still have a ban). I own multiple magazines over 10 round capacity, carry quite a few places, really pretty much everywhere I go that it's legal...and I've never even found myself in a fistfight (Nope, not even in high school) let alone wanted to shoot anyone.
 
Pilot said:
"Assaut Weapons" and "hicap" magazines are already banned in Connecticut. Did that stop this mass murder?
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We actually don't have magazine limits. But yea, otherwise, assault weapons ARE banned in the state.
 
I'm a VERY conservative person (husband and father), owner of multiple guns, and a gun rights proponent BUT...
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A husband, father and gun owner you might be, but the rest you are not.
...the status quo isn't working either.
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If by that you mean that, our public schools have not moved an inch in the direction toward protecting our kids that they are most certainly responsible for, and that our society has sheepishly avoided addressing the issues around mental health, then I agree.

But if you think banning a specific type of firearm would prevent a freely roaming and mentally unstable criminal from grabbing any other type of firearm and killing the unprotected children found in our softly guarded public schools, you are out of your ever-loving mind.
 
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Having lived for years in a country where private firearm ownership is outright forbiden I can tell you VERY matter of fact that that we are safer with firearms then without, over there only the criminals have weapons making them very bold. And yes criminals will ALWAYS find a way to access a firearm.
 
I simply no longer think assault rifles have a place in our society. So I would ban the sale of them.
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Huh???

So you're saying "assault weapons" should be be banned because they simply have aesthetic differences(bayonet lug, extendable stock, thumbhole stock, pistol grip, painted black) compared to say a Marlin Model 60?

By that same logic we should ban cars that go over 60 mph, painted red, and have racing stripes; because nobody needs a car that goes over 60 and certain aesthetic differences in cars imply speed and hence make them more dangerous.....an "assault car."
 
I agree with CoRoMo. I'll take the OP's word that he is a husband, father, and gun owner. But NOTHING he posted indicates he's the slightest bit conservative or a proponent of gun rights. I'm sorry packfan, but evidence is evidence and action is action. When you post something that encourages drastically increased gun control, you cannot (not should not, cannot) call yourself a proponent of gun rights. Likewise, when you encourage massive controls on media, such as games, coupled with tax increases to pay for increased government control, you also cannot call yourself a conservative.

I'm sorry, you just cannot logically call yourself conservative or a proponent of gun rights. You're free to whatever opinions you wish. But words mean things, and those words don't apply to you. Your own claims have demonstrated they don't.
 
I'm a VERY conservative person (husband and father), owner of multiple guns, and a gun rights proponent BUT not one of your proposals addresses the issue, except possibly the last one

11. Ban the production and sale of "war games" and ultra-violent video games.


the issue is mental health and our societies' total negligence. many of us also have children and are devastated by this and previous tragedies. but your knee jerk reaction is targeted at the tool, when it should be targeted at fixing the health and social issues of the boy. targeting the tool is pointless, as it is impossible to really control (do you think there are no guns in the UK?) and even if you magically disappeared all firearms, the health issue will simply manifest itself with a different tool.
 
BUT not one of your proposals addresses the issue, except possibly the last one

11. Ban the production and sale of "war games" and ultra-violent video games.
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You know, we already have a rating system in place for these video games.

Do you know why young kids get these games, anyway? Bad parenting.

Bad parenting is not an excuse to throw the 1st amendment out, either.
 
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