NFA/922(r) and NY law Idea

[boonie]

I've been looking at the SIG 550 rifles for a bit, and trying to think of legal ways to own them. I've also seen mention that the 922(r) import restrictions do not apply to NFA firearms.

Would it be possible to have a law enforcement dealer purchase a new SIG 550 (semi-auto only), and register it as a SBR so that we could own it?

On this forum, they post a "letter" from the ATF on this.
http://www.investmentgradefirearms.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=hk;action=display;num=1098460877


Do any of you know more about this NFA/922(r) bit?



Here's what I'm thinking:

In New York, we can't own NFA firearms. The law bans ownership of rifles with barrels under 16", with no provisions for legal ownership if it's registered federally.
I'm thinking that maybe we could get a dealer to bring in a SIG 550 rifle, and we register it as a SBR.

However, we leave it with it's >16" barrel length.
So it's registered as a SBR, but the barrel is over 16".
Would this exempt it from the 922(r) import restrictions while leaving it legal in New York?


Obviously, we need to work around the NY "Assault Weapons Ban", (a copy of the expired fed ban).

Specifically, I'm looking at the SIG 550 Sniper variant.
I'm thinking that we could fix the folding stock to make it legal as far as the AWB, and register it as a SBR for the 922(r).
(And find pre-ban magazines, or 10 round ones)

http://www.biggerhammer.net/sigamt/550/sniper.html




Any thoughts?
I know that there are other rifles out there.
I know that we can get pre-ban AR-15's, and decent post ban AR-15's that are all just as accurate, more accurate, whatever.
That’s not the point of this discussion.


Do you think the "registered SBR" with a >16" barrel length would be good in NY and these other non-NFA states?
Any chance that a CLEO would sign off on this in NY?
Does the ATF really hold that the NFA weapons are exempt from the 922(r) import restrictions?

I'm thinking that this could be a way for us to get HK-G36 rifles, 550's, Steyr Augs, etc.


NY Laws:
http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/menuf.cgi
take the "Law of New York" link at the bottom
then take the penal law link
then "Article 265" - Firearms and other dangerous weapons

 

[whm1974]

Some things to consider.

For one move out of NY. If you can afford an SIG 550 SBR then you can afford to move.

After doing the above and moving to a freeer state, get somthing else. Class three isn't worth the time, trouble, or legal hassle.

-Bill

 

[CleverNickname]

The problem is that SIG 550s are not "sporting" rifles according to the BATF, so they can't be imported for non-government users. And SBRs are illegal for import, because they're assumed to be non-sporting by default.

 

[boonie]

So I probably misread that letter?

I really thought I read something about NFA/922(r) stuff somewhere. I'll see if I can dig it up...

whm, not all of us have the means to move to another state just to avoid disagreeable firearms laws.
I assumed that a new SIG 550 through law enforcement channels would not be too expensive. At least not more than $2000. Maybe one of the dealers on the forum could clear that up.
I think most of the cost to own rifles like this is the fact that there are few in the country that we can normally own due to the import restrictions, kind of like machine gun costs after the 1986 ban.

I'll decide for myself if NFA firearms are worth the hassle.

ETA: I just reread the letter a couple times, you're probably right. I think I misread it.

 

[whm1974]

whm, not all of us have the means to move to another state just to avoid disagreeable firearms laws.
I assumed that a new SIG 550 through law enforcement channels would not be too expensive. At least not more than $2000.

If you can pay ~$2000 for ONE gun, then what do you mean you don't have the means to move?

-Bill

 

[RaetherEnt]

Just out of curiosity

Just checked out Guns America and found this...


http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976527873.htm

Looks like a damn nice rifle!

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Does the ATF really hold that the NFA weapons are exempt from the 922(r) import restrictions?

YEP.

DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
Washington, D.C. 20226

MAR 22, 1994

LE:F:FE:RLB
3312.5

Mr XXX
Address
City, State

Dear Mr. XXX:

This refers to your letter of February 28, 1994, in which you inquire as to whether the making of certain National Firearm Act ( NFA) weapons is prohibited by Title 18 United States Code (U.S.C.), Chapter 44, Section 922(r). The weapon in question is a FN/FAL type firearm having a barrel length of less than 16 inches which is assembled from an imported British L1A1 parts kit and a domestically manufactured frame or receiver.

Title 18 U.S.C., Chapter 44, Section 922(r) provides that it shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under 18 U.S.C., Chapter 44, Section 925(d)(3), as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.

However, the Bureau has previously determined that the lawful making of an NFA weapon would not violate Section 922(r), since the section only addresses the assembly of "nonsporting" firearms, and not the making of NFA weapons. Therefore, the lawful making of a short barreled rifle would not be precluded by Section 922(r).

If you decide to proceed with your project, it will be necessary for you to obtain prior approval by first submitting an ATF Form 1 (Application To Make and Register a Firearm) and paying the appropriate $200 making tax. Additional information relative to this procedure may be obtained from the following source:

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
NFA Branch, Room 5300
650 Massachusetts Avenue, NW
Washington DC 20026

We trust that the foregoing was responsive to your inquiry. If we may be of any further assistance, please contact us.

Sincerely yours,
[signed]
Edward M. Owen, Jr.
Chief, Firearms Technology Branch

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/atf_letter3.txt

 

[whm1974]

Just checked out Guns America and found this...


http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976527873.htm

Looks like a damn nice rifle!

ACK! I'm having an heart attack! $13,000!
Good God, I can buy a whole collection for that much, and a nice one too.

-Bill

 

[Hkmp5sd]

ACK! I'm having an heart attack! $13,000!

Many people have $13,000+ guns in their collection. I have a couple myself. It all depends on what one wants to collect and whether or not they think the gun is worth it. There will always be semeone that thinks your are insane, yet think nothing of spending that much money of golf equipment or a boat so they can go out and drown worms.

 

[whm1974]

There will always be semeone that thinks your are insane, yet think nothing of spending that much money of golf equipment or a boat so they can go out and drown worms.

I may end up with $13,000+ OF guns, but I laugh at those with that much in golf gear. A boat I could see.

-Bill

 

[ctdonath]

Actually I've been wondering something comparable:
Living in GA (formerly NY), I want an SBR and may register my pre-'86 AR15 thus. The thread-relevant queston is whether the BATFE will approve temporarily taking the AR15 SBR into NY _if_ I put a >16" barrel on it for the trip.
Been wondering how to phrase a letter to 'em about this.

 

[beerslurpy]

ACK! I'm having an heart attack! $13,000!
Good God, I can buy a whole collection for that much, and a nice one too.

I agree personally on the subject of that gun, but not on the principle. I have spent more than that building up my weekend car and I know guys with 6 figures invested in machine guns and other toys.